This industry needs a revolution. And more talent. Everything seems to be getting better except major appliances.
CNET 2018 speed queen review
- Thread starter lorainfurniture
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New SQ TL Washers
No amount of software fixes will make a washer wash big loads evenly that does not have the ability to turn over a load of clothing and flex the fabrics, doing this is one of the core parts of washing clothing.
If it was as simple as reprogramming it would have been done already, SQ played with this design for over 5 years before its introduction.
This new washer is a classic case of trying to do everything in house, they should have sent out samples a few years ago before launching into full production.
No amount of software fixes will make a washer wash big loads evenly that does not have the ability to turn over a load of clothing and flex the fabrics, doing this is one of the core parts of washing clothing.
If it was as simple as reprogramming it would have been done already, SQ played with this design for over 5 years before its introduction.
This new washer is a classic case of trying to do everything in house, they should have sent out samples a few years ago before launching into full production.
The LG WM9000HVA, is a consumer reports top performing front load, what does cnet say? "It has poor performance" and "doesn't remove stains well" gee not according to consumer reports. Cnet is seriously a joke, if you look up their review of literally evey machine they say the same thing "does not remove stains well" of course if you use the normal eco cycle (which uses cold water) and they stated using "aham standard detergent" of course not many stains will come out genius, meanwhile the ONLY machine they deem as "very good at removing stains" which was a kenmore, i noticed a big box of tide powder sitting next to the machine. Seems to me this is just a stab at attacking speed queen, TOTALLY biased. Since they even mention eugenes video which his machine is not functioning like it should, seems pretty unfair if you aske me, i hated this machine when i first saw a video, but when i realized it was a bad machine and saw other videos of it and muddy jeans test and how good it did i realized it actually is a good machine. Id rather have this over a crappy whirlpool cabrio that cant even get the clothes wet, and not enough torque to turn a sock over.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I wonder if poorly performing washing machines - of all types - could be assisted just by switching to a good detergent?
Probably yes. I haven't done scientific tests, but I did sense that improved detergent quality seemed to help when I was stuck using a WCI Frigidaire. I get the same feeling with current WP DD, but probably not as extreme. Meanwhile, I was happy with pretty much any passable detergent with the last BD Kenmore I used, which was the best washer I've used in the last 10 years.
I have to assume the new Speed Queen would work better with Tide or Persil than, say, All.
That said, I'm not happy with the idea of any washer demanding expensive detergent for "acceptable" washing. I am considerably less happy when that washer is expensive. I can tolerate (and have tolerated) WCI Frigidaires in rentals I've had. I might even tolerate buying a WCI Frigidaire if it was dirt cheap. But spending $1,000 on a new washer that requires TOL detergent to offer acceptable washing is not acceptable.
Probably yes. I haven't done scientific tests, but I did sense that improved detergent quality seemed to help when I was stuck using a WCI Frigidaire. I get the same feeling with current WP DD, but probably not as extreme. Meanwhile, I was happy with pretty much any passable detergent with the last BD Kenmore I used, which was the best washer I've used in the last 10 years.
I have to assume the new Speed Queen would work better with Tide or Persil than, say, All.
That said, I'm not happy with the idea of any washer demanding expensive detergent for "acceptable" washing. I am considerably less happy when that washer is expensive. I can tolerate (and have tolerated) WCI Frigidaires in rentals I've had. I might even tolerate buying a WCI Frigidaire if it was dirt cheap. But spending $1,000 on a new washer that requires TOL detergent to offer acceptable washing is not acceptable.
It depends on the temperature of the water, agitation time etc, every machine has different fill temps and or agitation times for their normal cycle, which is not very consistent if you ask me. Put the new speed queen on warm or hot and heavy duty and the stains would come out. I recall the normal eco cycle uses cold water regardless of what temp is selected, while other brands use warmer (slightly warmer than room temp) water.
I'm not surprised...
I'm not surprised that this washer performed poorly even on the super soiled setting! I had high hopes! SMH!
I'm not surprised that this washer performed poorly even on the super soiled setting! I had high hopes! SMH!
or...
Or, they should've used the heavy duty cycle with tide and downy in addition to using Clorox when washing whites, period.
Or, they should've used the heavy duty cycle with tide and downy in addition to using Clorox when washing whites, period.
jcturbot
Active member
Doesn't surprise me one bit-
You use any Washing Machine on a "Eco" cool water wash, top or front load, for only 29 minutes and see what you get for stain removal.
Someone should write Cnet and have them rerun the test on a Warm Heavy Duty cycle (the real "Normal" cycle), and recheck the results, I can bet they'll be much better.
Jeff
You use any Washing Machine on a "Eco" cool water wash, top or front load, for only 29 minutes and see what you get for stain removal.
Someone should write Cnet and have them rerun the test on a Warm Heavy Duty cycle (the real "Normal" cycle), and recheck the results, I can bet they'll be much better.
Jeff
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
"That said, I'm not happy with the idea of any washer demanding expensive detergent for "acceptable" washing."
Not necessarily so.
According to European consumer magazines, some of the store brands (i.e. Lidl, Aldi) - powders in particular - clean rings around most of the other brands. In other words, they match or even slightly exceed the performance of Ariel and Persil.
Not necessarily so.
According to European consumer magazines, some of the store brands (i.e. Lidl, Aldi) - powders in particular - clean rings around most of the other brands. In other words, they match or even slightly exceed the performance of Ariel and Persil.
I think Alliance could
Speed Queen could, with a minor redesign have a washer at least as good as the 2017. They can keep the transmission less design with the reversing motor for agitation, and, provide a separate brake for the tub so that the agitation can be more brisk. The problem with the current design is that you can't reverse that much mass very quickly.
The spin could be accomplished with a stop between the agitator and tub that would engage when the agitation spins in only one direction, much like the Maytag Helical engagement. Of course the tub would be braked in a specific location, and agitation would be 270 degrees, so as not to interfere with the location of the stop. I think this simple modification would add a minimal amount of cost.
As others have pointed out, the overall build quality is still there and if the machine could be made with a more active agitation it would be acceptable to many.
In any case I hope that Alliance can improve the product before all of the good will built up over the years is completely gone.
Speed Queen could, with a minor redesign have a washer at least as good as the 2017. They can keep the transmission less design with the reversing motor for agitation, and, provide a separate brake for the tub so that the agitation can be more brisk. The problem with the current design is that you can't reverse that much mass very quickly.
The spin could be accomplished with a stop between the agitator and tub that would engage when the agitation spins in only one direction, much like the Maytag Helical engagement. Of course the tub would be braked in a specific location, and agitation would be 270 degrees, so as not to interfere with the location of the stop. I think this simple modification would add a minimal amount of cost.
As others have pointed out, the overall build quality is still there and if the machine could be made with a more active agitation it would be acceptable to many.
In any case I hope that Alliance can improve the product before all of the good will built up over the years is completely gone.
Good Suggestions Martin, and I know SQ experimented with many of these ideas, but it makes it a lot more complicated and far less reliable to add these functions.
GE, WP, LG and SS and others are building their top loading washers to allow separate tub and agitator-impeller movement, but they are all having problems with these designs.
John L.
GE, WP, LG and SS and others are building their top loading washers to allow separate tub and agitator-impeller movement, but they are all having problems with these designs.
John L.
YOU CAN'T POLISH A TURD, NOR CAN YOU PICK ONE UP BY THE CLEAN END!
Another idea
One other change that could work is to have a separate motor for the spin. I know these ideas would cost more, but if Alliance does nothing, they may go out of business. I have my 2017, so probably it will last as long as I will. I think they were trying to simplify the design and cost but as John pointed out the other major brands are struggling with this issue also. They could always go back to the old design which is better at cleaning and sturdy enough to last.
One other change that could work is to have a separate motor for the spin. I know these ideas would cost more, but if Alliance does nothing, they may go out of business. I have my 2017, so probably it will last as long as I will. I think they were trying to simplify the design and cost but as John pointed out the other major brands are struggling with this issue also. They could always go back to the old design which is better at cleaning and sturdy enough to last.
brisnat81
Well-known member
Fisher and Paykel did both in the 1980's on the Gentle Annie computer controlled machine.
There is a single belt from the 12 pole motor and it drives the agitator shaft. The agitator shaft has a metal tab on it, so any time it goes past 340 degree's it drives the outer tub. Occasionally you'll hear the tab knock as the tub indexes, but otherwise its just the weird motor sounds.
Braking is accomplished by the motor. These machines were made up until the early 90's before the Smart Drive machines came out. This would've been the perfect solution for Speed Queen, a Rugged solution with variable speeds but still having the Agitator move separately to the Bowl.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDUKZfGqN4E
There is a single belt from the 12 pole motor and it drives the agitator shaft. The agitator shaft has a metal tab on it, so any time it goes past 340 degree's it drives the outer tub. Occasionally you'll hear the tab knock as the tub indexes, but otherwise its just the weird motor sounds.
Braking is accomplished by the motor. These machines were made up until the early 90's before the Smart Drive machines came out. This would've been the perfect solution for Speed Queen, a Rugged solution with variable speeds but still having the Agitator move separately to the Bowl.
http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDUKZfGqN4E
spinmon
Well-known member
The washer in SQ's lame video SHOULD get those few items clean! Reminds me of 55+ years ago playing with my crank-type or battery-operated toy washers. They had a similar agi-tub system. With a few doll clothes pieces SOME action would occur.
How I wished then that someone made a toy washer like the REAL WASHERS with separate tub/agitator action!! And now here we are with the renowned Speed Queen pushing $1000.00 toy washers.
Keeping my '12 AWN542 as long as possible.
How I wished then that someone made a toy washer like the REAL WASHERS with separate tub/agitator action!! And now here we are with the renowned Speed Queen pushing $1000.00 toy washers.
Keeping my '12 AWN542 as long as possible.
I don't think Alliance will go under just because of the lame TL washer-they mainly cater to commercial laundry business.They will more likely go out of the household laundry business altogether.
SQ FL Washers In 2018
I don't know how many more tests it will take to convince the majority of the washer enthusiasts here on this site that this washer concept does not work, can not work and will NEVER work till it is redesigned.
Yes there will be some consumers that will be happy with this washer, but it will be much like the many owners of Maytag dependable care washers that over the years just put up with poor overall performance because it was relibible.
During my over 40 years in this business the thousands of our customers that got rid of an old MT DC washer, almost never wanted another one and they always loved the new WP BD and later the DD WP TL washers we sold them because of how much better job they did cleaning etc, I never had a single customer that wanted their old MT back.
I do think that you will see quite a few of these new SQs on Craigs list etc in not too many years.
John L.
I don't know how many more tests it will take to convince the majority of the washer enthusiasts here on this site that this washer concept does not work, can not work and will NEVER work till it is redesigned.
Yes there will be some consumers that will be happy with this washer, but it will be much like the many owners of Maytag dependable care washers that over the years just put up with poor overall performance because it was relibible.
During my over 40 years in this business the thousands of our customers that got rid of an old MT DC washer, almost never wanted another one and they always loved the new WP BD and later the DD WP TL washers we sold them because of how much better job they did cleaning etc, I never had a single customer that wanted their old MT back.
I do think that you will see quite a few of these new SQs on Craigs list etc in not too many years.
John L.
If you actually watch the video, they used the heavy duty cycle after, (only 40 minutes long) with warm water and it got "fair" which the best performing (non HE) agitator top load also gets "fair" and all other machines have 70 minute cycles. Look at your facts.
The HD Cycle on the SQ TR7 is 50 minutes
