Cold Water Wash

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supersurgilator

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how long after purchase, will reviews start about the mold and mildew issues showing up?

at that point, you get what you deserve for buying such a thing.....

before the DWW was added, complaints of barely enough water, yet will fill the tub up full for a HOT water Clean Washer cycle....where exactly are the savings in all of this?

I don't see this going over very well.....
 
A friend of mine (who didn't know any better) bought this same machine. He said if you select the "heavy duty cycle" it fills with hot water, but every other cycle fills with cold. That's OK for him, because he has his water heater turned down fairly low, so his hot water isn't all that hot.

I told him how to disable the lid switch and I went over with some laundry, since he only does one load about every two weeks. While yes it does have what looks like an agitator in it, rollover is extremely slow at best. Also, the rinse unfortunately, only fills the tub about a 1/4 of the way, it then agitates for literally one minute before draining for the spin. So ladies & gentleman, this means NOTHING actually gets rinsed during the "rinse"!!!!

I know there is obviously the huge push towards water and energy savings, but OMG this is absolutely ridiculous!
 
This is not even funny. When did the chemistry of dirt and sweat change that cold water wash is all that's needed now ? What is WP doing ? There are folks on this site who work for WP. Do they have any influence at all over there?

Whirlpool looks determined they will get us off of top loaders it seems. Wash plates that barely circulate clothes, wash tubs wobbling all over the place and machines built so light that they vibrate and shake excessively in the spin cycle and they take forever to fill.

Though I have seen the agitator models and they look like they work a little better, but their capacities look small like the early dd washers, yet they say the capacity is 3.4 or 3.5 cu.ft ? They don't look like super capacity tubs though. IDK.
 
Cold Water Clothes

I was once engaged to a girl in the early 80's who washed every damn thing in cold water. She had a very nice Kenmore pair in her home but you'd think the only thing that worked on her machine was cold/cold. That used to drive me nuts, but she was from Chicago and you know how hardheaded those Midwestern women can get. I won't say that's why I didn't marry her, but it didn't help.
 
"....where exactly are the savings in all of this?"

"Also, the rinse unfortunately, only fills the tub about a 1/4 of the way, it then agitates for literally one minute before draining for the spin. So ladies & gentleman, this means NOTHING actually gets rinsed during the "rinse"!!!!"

Let's assume for the sake of argument that people stuck with this machine eventually notice that their clothes aren't getting clean and try to solve the problem:
- They'll go from 1 rinse to 2 and then probably start using "rinse & spin" after each cycle if not washing their clothes twice.
- They'll try all sorts of detergents and additives to find a combination that (semi) works.
- The "Clean Washer" cycle will start being used more and more frequently to keep mold/mildew at bay.

I've been told by people much more knowledgeable than I that oils can be chemically induced to dissolve in cold water but that producing such chemicals has a large carbon footprint. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So we have:
- water being wasted by clothes being run through lengthy/multiple cycles.
- the cost of buying the necessary laundry detergents/additives.
- water being wasted by the "Clean Washer" cycle and the cost of the cleaner.
- the cost of the consumer's time and energy spent on figuring this all out.

I'd be most interested in reading an explanation of how getting clean clothes from this machine has a smaller carbon footprint than a washer that actually clean clothes with heated water and how it saves money for the consumer.
 
These were designed with landlords in mind. Probably those that supply utilities to their tenants. TONS of people wash in only cold. It does have a clean washer cycle and if used regularly, would keep the tub clean.
 
It is possible to clean clothes in cold temperatures

Naptha and benzine (sorry, too early for English, 'gasoline') and R12 and carbon tetrachloride can all do it, and do it quite well.

Water and enzymes? In 2017?

Nope.

And that's all there is to be said about it. As for the 1/4 fill and one minute rinse, that's useless.

 

Seriously, what is wrong with people?
 
panthera +

I couldn't agree more. It reminds me of when I was young and camping and trying to get dishes truly clean with cold water. And of course, we all know the hell that people are going through with today's dishwashers if they don't have scalding water going in.

Human sebum acts like hamburger fat when it gets cold. I know that our biggest energy wasting in this world isn't from our laundry, it's from our cars. However, it's easier to bully appliance makers than it is to convince 'Murricans to give up huge, ugly SUV's and pickup trucks to drive to the grocery store.
 
the analogy is a bit off there.....

they used basically the same platform for a washer, the challenge was to make it more energy efficient.....less water and energy

the plan should be no different for automobiles, take a similar Minivan or SUV, now make it more efficient on gasoline....all they have done so far in the past twenty years or so, is made it gain a few miles more per gallon, from back then......in todays technology, it should be a minimum of three times than that, if not more...closer to 60+ mpg....

jumping from a truck down to a Prius is not the answer....that would be like jumping from a full size washer down to a table top model....

granted not everyone buys or needs a bigger vehicle than what fits their needs.....but some families need a bigger vehicle, and most guys in construction need a truck!....
 
I've had it pointed out to me by people that have kids that if you have more than two young ones (or, say, your kids and your neighbor's kids are car pooling), it's pretty much impossible to legally carry them in a sedan. Not only do you need a car seat for each one, with the requisite belt setup, but in many states it's illegal to let a child ride in the front passenger seat. So if you have more than two kids, you have to have a vehicle with a third row of seats.
 
its the same old debate

its the same old debate but my toughs is whats the point of a washer if you can not select the wash rinse temp you need if my memory serves me right older vintage washers did not have cold water wash the options where warm or hot with a warm rinse mostly I think cold water wash and cold water rinse came around the end of the 60 start of the 1970 but can not pin point the excat year there already the fact that most washers of today have ban warm rinse screen shot use as an exemple

pierreandreply4-2017102811410403330_1.jpg
 
+Yogitunes

I've heard all the rationalizations for why people in this country need 6000 lb. vehicles to go to soccer practice, etc. Living here in TX I'm surrounded by that. And no, friend, it's just a matter of the paradigm. The comparison isn't correct using the Prius as the tabletop model; the Prius is the normal washer and the bloated truck is a commercial Milnor. I've owned trucks and I needed them. But today's? Spare me. The nicest, shiniest vehicles in any average parking lot are the silly trucks and SUV's that look like they're ready to conquer the Sahara. God forbid anyone use them for real work!

Not only is it just a matter of energy efficiency, it's also a matter of non-renewable resources used to make these altars of excess. But--it's a free country and I'm not the king. There are always those who feel more manly, more 'in command', or just better than others if they drive enormous vehicles capable of crushing the average car. In fact, it's endemic of our culture in general as it moves away from courtesy, openness and neighborly behavior. How naked would all these people feel driving a Model T truck, where the driver can't hide behind door beams and dark tinted glass? Again, 'Yogitunes', you and I won't pay the price for this excess; our descendents will. That shortsightedness is the tragedy of it.
 
What is the real motive behind this cold water push ?

Maybe the lack of porcelain tops and lids on washers will cause these parts to rust with all the steam hot water gives off ?

We didn't figure anything new about cold water that wasn't known when Whirlpool started releasing their first automatics 70 years ago.

Hot water is still the most effective for sanitizing and removing certain stains and keeping the washer clean.

Once again government regulations telling us what is "best for us". I am not a child and I know how to wash my clothes and what works and has always worked.

Where does it end ? This is simply too much overreach. What next ? You have a certain amount of time to take a hot shower ? If you work then you are the one paying your utility bills. You should have the choices you have always had.

"Mother Earth" needs saving because our resources are limited ...blah...blah...blah . This creates a dangerous precedent. Who gets to use these limited resources ? I can see where this is all leading and it is not good...no not good at all.

Man thinks he is the answer to this worlds problems when nothing could be farther from the truth. We didn't create it and the world does not need our help. Foolish men with the audacity to think we can control nature and the powers that be.

Only the LORD has complete control of all things as he is sovereign. If we ask in faith we will receive.

Even with my own faults I will put my trust in the LORD who plays no favorites than in men who do.
 
You have a good sense of humor there Frigilux. Pretty witty too.

Are you intelligent enough to send rain where it needs to be ? How about trying to stop it from raining? Can you do that Frigilux ?

How about raging wildfires Frigilux ? What can man do about that himself without God's intervention..hmmmm.

How about tsunamis and earthquakes ? Can you stop them from happening ? We live on a planet that is alive and can Shake us off of it no problem.

How about pain and suffering ? Can mans intelligence eradicate those problems ?

We as humans are God's crowning achievement, but you give way too much credit to mans intelligence to get the world fixed.

Regards
Pat
 
Didn't mean for it to get religious but the whole thing of being dictated to as to what temperatures we can wash in because of government mandates.It is getting rediculous.

How much water and how hot it is should be the business of the individual who has to do the wash not a beaurocracy
 
An attempt to clarify, simplify and return to topic....

I think we all can agree that government & media frequently do not focus on the main culprits when it comes to inefficient use of finite resources. IMO, most of the "chaos and bickering" (which I agree happens)comes from members responding to a minor culprit being targetted while a more major one seems to be ignored. I don't take it as a reflection on the member's personality.

I agree that most people do NOT choose how many seats or how much cargo capacity their vehicles need. The point as I see it is that going from 5 to 7 person vehicle requires buying a MUCH larger vehicle than the 2 person increase actually warrants. The same applies to people who never go off-road and need AWD/4x4 ONLY for severe winter weather. They might be happy with an econobox but there isn't much to choose from.

I now return you to the thread topic....

Jim
 
When I started plumbing they told us that to kill most germs with hot water and soap the water temp had to be 140F. Now many water heaters are set as low as 120F from the factory with the penalty of 'death' for adjusting higher. Well, kidding about the death part, but I think the Feds can fine us if we adjust over 130F.

I understand about babies/small children and the rapid burn factor of scalding tap water. But once your children are say 10, you ought to be able to raise your hot water temp legally. Which begs the question anyway; Since when did germs/bacteria get less resistant to hot water?

Kevin
 
Laundry tips

Here's something that'll rock your worldviews, who keep bleating that the gubmint is taking your hot water and the media is evil.

Their recommendation is to wash in the warmest water you're garments can handle.
And to not skimp on soap. (But of course don't use too much either)

Where it all falls apart is the comments section, lol.

The backlash against hot water, sorting colors, and using almost any soap, is comical and very telling, that it's all idiots out there and they need to be saved from themselves.

(Runs away)

http://https//www.washingtonpost.co...cb344221131_video.html?utm_term=.b938a49c3a1a
 
Good points John! Granted I don't think the gov't should tell us how to wash our clothes but we as Americans are very spoiled when it comes to stuff like this. If you look in Europe where they have cold water fill ONLY machines that will heat the water so you're only using hot water when needed....our system seems very outdated and wasteful.

I had my hot water heater on 130 degrees. I literally would burn my hand if I used straight hot water...I lowered it to 125 and I dare say it's still too hot. I can't even imagine what 140 degrees would feel like, a temp that a lot of users on here insist upon. That's TOO hot, sorry. My Hobart KA states in the manual that you can lower the temp on your water heater because the machine itself will heat the water to 140 degrees (or 165 on Sani Rinse), for you, saving you from spending money on hot water you won't use. My machine is 32 years old so the idea of energy savings isn't new, by a long shot.

The article you posted makes good points about washing clothes appropriately and sorting. This is something I'm fanatical about (and probably why I spend an entire day doing laundry), but it works and my clothes are very clean.

The other issue is that a lot of people use cold water only and they NEVER clean their machine. That is just disgusting. I can't say much though because I can honesty say as a kid, we never cleaned our machine either. We never had a machine with a FS dispenser so it might have looked a little better. I've seen so many with the dispenser and I can't imagine how I would even wash my clothes in it! I'm very meticulous with that now. I dare say you could eat out of my machine now :-D
 
That's what most dishwashers do, preheat the water for use, although there are some that take off directly from your WH. Most people with those dishwashers are unhappy because all the food residue is often not removed at lower WH temps. The germs are most likely killed in the drying process, however. The only solution there is to raise the temp in your WH, which is wasteful. Could be same as in Europe where the washing machine heats the water before use. Will add to the cost however of the washers here and people in the US step over dollars to pick up pennies.

There are published chart scales on babies/small children and how long they can endure hot water and at what temp before serious burns occur. It's not voodoo or an unknown mystery. I've been raising my grandson since he was five months old (now three) and the WH is set @125F. We get by fine. He's had his hands directly under the hot water and then pulled away without burns....that's what you want with small children.

I've never seen a US washing machine of any age that preheats the water and I don't ever remember being offered that feature in the past. Interesting....

Kevin
 
Yup Americans are cheap no doubt lol. But so incredibly wasteful in other ways.

at 125 degrees I can use only hot water and wash my coffee pot without having to keep pulling my hand away. Before in the shower, the water was so hot, I had the lever on past warm into the cold setting...and with my condo, that means like no water pressure. That's just stupid.

It's really only been the last decade or so that FL washers with heaters have become more popular. But even then makes you wonder how many people actually use those settings.
 
I think it's fantastic that washing machines would heat their own water...I'd be all over that if I ever find one. My hands are so leathered from work that I can stand unusually hot water temps directly on them. However, it's not about me, but about my 3yr old.

Demand WH's were all the rage but after installing dozens of them, including high-priced Bosch units, they have some issues. They have what is similar to a reed valve inside and if the demand heater is not used all the time, that valve will start to calcify. They have kits (wonder why) that replace the valve/seals, but there really is no practical way to ready a unit for vacation status.

I had one where I replaced the valve/seals after a long vacation and I never could restore the hot water fully to the unit. No Bosch tech could offer a solution either.

Needless to say, I'm not super high on those demand units (gas) and I think the electric ones are very energy inefficient. Takes a lot of amp draw to heat water with one of those electric demand units. And on any of them, a lot of water (wasted) has to pass through the fixture before you feel the hot water. Since it's a demand unit, there's no way to recirculate water to get instant hot water.

Kevin
 
I know the Hot/Warm/Cold debate

Has gone on several times, and I am agreement. I have a few loads that are washed in cold due to shrinkage issues, I do like Tide Coldwater for these loads. Other than that it's Hot or Warm when I wash.

Somewhere in the achieves someone brought up the Japanese. They are 1) very clean people. 2) Very sensitive to smells, and 3) Wash almost exclusively in cold water.

What detergents do they use? I know that our Dear Laundress has said we need Time, temperature, and chemical action to properly clean. Where is the balance reached?
 
I think like most anything, there's a time and a place for cold cycles. I wouldn't dare wash sheets or towels on cold. But I've been washing my clothes on cold with Tide CW for the last 3.5 months with great results. Tried that once with regular Tide and it went over terribly. 

 

Our summer/early fall water temp is between 60-75 degrees, Tide CW is supposed to be effective down to 40 but I'm not sure I'm willing to go that low. I imagine alot of effectiveness is lost below 60. 

 

I believe in being energy efficient, but I strongly believe that in this country, as a whole, we are looking at all the wrong places to conserve. 
 
Over here legally the minimum temp your hot water heater can be set to is 140deg, its not possible with a standard heater to lower the thermostat below that point. This is to prevent Legionella.

It is then mandatory to have a Tempering valve installed that tempers water to the Bathrooms at a minimum to 120Deg or Less. Generally the valve is just mounted to the tank and the whole house is tempered to 120, but if you design the plumbing right during the build stage, you can keep water at 140 in the Laundry and kitchen.

We have Solar hot water so our tank temp maxes out at 170 from October to March. In that instance the tempering valve is crucial.

Of course with 240v its quick and easy to heat water from Cold to 140 inside the machine and your tank temp no longer really matters.
 

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