Consumer Reports Detergents test

[dirtybuck]

Gyrafoam:

The Fab that you found at Dollar General..is it the older Colgate-Palmolive kind or the newer Phoenix Brands version?

Also, does anyone know what the verdict is on Tide Basic? Is it going to be distributed nationwide?

 

[gyrafoam]

Spring Magic and Rain Forest are Colgate-Palmolive.
Bold Infusions is Phoenix Brands.

Either way, for cheap detergent, they do a very good job IMO.

 

[sudsmaster]

The misinformation on the subject of phosphates and laundry detergents is amazing.

For example, the eHOw website asserts:

"Modern laundry detergents no longer contain phosphates due to a ban passed in 1993.... Prior to the ban, laundry detergents frequently contained between 30 and 50 percent phosphate builders. Intense debate among environmentalists, detergent manufacturers, and government officials began in the 1960s, and Congress enacted a ban that effectively removed phosphates from laundry detergents in 1993. "

http://www.ehow.com/facts_6006821_detergent-high-phosphate-level_.html

In point of fact, as far as I have been able to determine, Congress has NEVER passed a national ban on phosphates in laundry detergents, period. Instead limits of phosphates are enacted on a state and local basis. This is why it's still perfectly legal to buy and use phosphated laundry detergents in arid states like California, Nevada, Arizona, etc, where the primary water pollutant of concern is nitrates, not phosphates.

Now, the laundry detergent industry has voluntarily removed phosphates from just about every major brand of laundry detergents, with generally regrettable results. That it is now considering doing this for dishwasher detergents is even more regrettable, since the non-phosphated substitutes appear to be even less efficacious than non-phosphated laundry detergents are for cleaning fabrics.

I very much doubt that Congress would seriously consider banning phosphates in dishwasher detergents under these circumstances, especially in light of the fact that it has never banned them in laundry detergents. The detergent manufacturing industry, however, in its continuous corner cutting, no doubt will welcome the opportunity to voluntarily remove practically all phosphates from dishwasher detergents so that it doesn't have to package two different types. Of course, most of these same manufacturers seems to have absolutely no problem with offering a bewildering variety of dishwasher detergents anyway, with catchy names like "Complete", "Advanced", etc etc etc.

PURE BULLSH!T

 

[launderess]

A Bill Was In Congress To Ban Phosphates In Dishwasher Deter

Nationwide. As to if such a bill would have become law, that is anyone's guess. But given the Democratic party lead by Pelosi and Reid having a field day with every crack-pot,liberal, bleeding heart democratic idea that has been floating around Washington D.C. for ages, but never could get to see the light of day becoming law or a rule, there was a risk.

Sixteen states have banned phosphates in automatic dishwasher detergents. Though that is a small number, there is no telling where it would all end, and as you say manufacturers aren't keen on producing different variations for phosphate and and non-phosphate markets.

Consider also Target, Walmart, and other national chains with huge buying power that can throw their weight around. Walmart in particular was probably not willing to go through the nightmare of purchasing and distributing different versions of dishwasher detergent based upon phosphate content and state laws.

Perhaps ten, twenty or more years ago when detergent manufacturers such as P&G and Colgate had regional plants that could produce amounts tailored to the local market, whipping up two different detergents based upon phosphate content made sense. However that is not the case today.

Even commercial detergent makers such as Ecolab are starting to move away from phosphates as states such as New York are now banning the substance in some commercial products as well.

 

[launderess]

P.S.

Many parts of Canada are moving to nationwide bans on phosphates in the coming months. Since many US detergents as well as other products are produced for the entire North American market (Mexico, USA and Canada), there is yet another push to remove phosphates.

 

[gorenje]

Why is Dynamo so bad?

I got a bottle of Dynamo and one of Ajax. I haven't try none of it yet, but I like the fresh smell.
Ingemar

 

[jerrod6]

Did CR mention anything about rinsing or don't they care? I've tried He Tide products serveral times during this decade and they all produced thick suds that are difficult to rinse out of the clothes. It cleans but if it won't rinse well I can't use it.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

A few notes:

The FAB that I can find here in Charlotte is all made by Phoenix Brands. There are four scents, the three older ones plus the new Bold Infusions. I have had good results with the powder, but haven't tried liquid. The powders seem to rinse nice and clear in Charlotte's semi-soft water. It's also inexpensive and is often buy-one-get-one at a local grocery store for $3.99 for a 32-load package.

As to Tide, specifically the Cold-water variant: I use that when I am using a washer in my test area and have it connected to garden hose water, which of course is cold. I have it in liquid and powder. Great results, but NEVER wash towels with it. It's highly sudsy as others say, and towels just froth it up and it takes two or more rinses to get rid of.

Gordon

 

[frigilux]

Jerrod--Consumer Reports tests detergents in moderately hard water, so they probably don't have clean-rinsing issues.

My water softener malfunctioned once, and I washed several loads of laundry in hard water using liquid Tide HE. The suds were completely gone by the 2nd of 3 rinses in my Frigidaire front-loader.

 

[nmassman44]

They didnt mention anything about rinsing. They love liquids though. One thing that I have noticed in this report and in past detergent reports is the fact that they dont test Tide HE Powder or even Tide Original Powders. I would love to see them test German Persil powder and liquids. I dont take what CU says as gospel and find that alot of the test reports kinda lacking. This issue had dryers in it as well. No Speed Queens to be seen in the report. They do like the LG dryers....

 

[vintagesearch]

i take that test with a grain of salt!!!! are you kidding me i cant use high sudsing detergents i have sensitive skin and i usually by default almost give everything a second rinse. i use arm and hammer or All they dont get me going rash city LOL. tide, gain, era, i only use if there HE formulas and then i can stand them and still keep on my with my 2nd rinse option on the kenmore i hate suds!!!!

 

[sudsmaster]

This really is one issue that does belong in the "States' Rights" category. For very sound technical, and not political, reasons.

The arid states of the southwest do NOT have a problem, by and large, with lake eutrophication from phosphates. The major water pollutant of concern is nitrate, not phosphate. I can understand that wetter states of the Northwest, Northeeast, and South may have more of an issue. But I also feel that what with tertiary water treatment capable of removing most phosphate (and humans naturally excrete large amounts anyway), it's becoming more and more of a technical non-issue.

 

[launderess]

It was the water treatment bit that factored into all this:

Federal government was starting to lean on many states, including New York about the quality of water in some areas, and was going to start ordering new treatment plants, or whatever it took to remove certain substances from waste water.

Staring down the barrel of spending millions (which many cash strapped states don't have), many looked for ways to keep the Feds off their back.

In some states many "tree hugger" groups simply have a thing for phosphates and ironically the STPP laden Mexican detergents got many riled up, and when they finished getting that stuff off local store shelves, turned their attention to DW detergents. Many of these groups either began or threatened to begin lawsuits based upon the Clean Water Act to force local authorities hands.

By the way, while at the supermarket the other day noticed at least two dishwasher detergents still list phosphates on their packages. Both Finish gel, and Electrasol tablets still contain phosphates, again at least according to their packages. How long this will last is anyone's guess.

 

[jerrod6]

According to my water company the hardness of the water in my section of the city ranges from 4 to 13 gpg depending on the time of year. During the summer it seems to be at the upper end. I don't khow if this is hard or soft but I do get remaining suds in the rinses when using Tide. At one point it was so bad that I began to break out in a rash due to detergent, according to my doctor, so this is why I am concerned with rinseabliliy. Once I switched the rash went away.

 

[sudsmaster]

Again, this is NOT a political issue.

How else would one explain that ultra-liberal California has no ban on phosphated laundry or dishwasher detergents, except perhaps for the Lake Tahoe basin (an extremely small percentage of the state's population actually lives there anyway)?

So please stop portraying this as a liberal vs. the rest of us conflict. It simply isn't.

 

[frigilux]

Jerrod---If the degree of hardness was described to you in "grains per gallon", your water goes from moderately hard to very hard. In those cases, you should be seeing very little to no suds in your rinses.

If they meant to tell you those numbers in "parts per million" or "milligrams per liter", then you soft water (which is common in parts of the northeast and northwest) and you'd be seeing suds in your rinses. I'm guessing they meant parts per million; otherwise you have a pretty wild fluctuation in your water hardness during the year.

 

[frigilux]

Jerrod---If the degree of hardness was described to you in "grains per gallon", your water goes from moderately hard to very hard. In those cases, you should be seeing very little to no suds in your rinses.

If they meant to tell you those numbers in parts per million or milligrams per liter--the most frequently used scale--then you have soft water (which occurs naturally in parts of the northeast and northwest) and you'd be seeing suds in your rinses.

I'm guessing they meant parts per million; otherwise you have a pretty wild fluctuation in your water hardness during the year.

 

[frigilux]

Jerrod--Here's something I found at the city of Philadelphia's website. Your water is definitely not soft, but fluctuates from 'moderately hard' to 'hard'. I'm surprised you're finding suds in your rinse water. Maybe Tide has become even more suds-tenacious in the past couple of years!

 

[frigilux]

Here's a table of water hardness for any who may be curious.

 

[jerrod6]

Thanks for the table! I got the 4 to 13 GPG numbers from my cities annual water report. It contains a map of the rivers we draw the water from and the treatment plants on each river.
The map shows which areas each river and plant services. Then there is a table that gives various water characteristics from each plant. My area of the city receives a mixture of water from two plants, so I used a combination of hardness numbers from both.

My DW will show the water hardness of the last cycle. I just checked it and it is showing 12, in the fall the number is around 7. Not sure this is in GPG it might be in D.

If I use Persil or Miele detergents the water is clear in the second rinse. I wonder if there might be some other chemical in the water that reacts and causes the suds?