CR Announces Death of Traditional Toploaders

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frigilux

frigilux

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This one took me by surprise. I received my end-of-the-year CR Buyer's Guide in the mail and---what's this?----no traditional toploaders are listed.

Here's their explanation: "Note that tougher new energy-efficiency standards for washers take effect in January 2007. While front-loading washers and a handful of high-efficiency top-loaders already meet this latest standard, most traditional top-loading models do not and are no longer sold."

Have you heard of any US manufacturers abandoning their trad TL'ers? Is CR a bit premature in their pronouncement?

Good thing I picked up my Franklin-driven Frigidaire TL'er when I did!
 
I think, if the multinationals get on the stick and develop a reasonably priced front-loader that meets the needs of a majority of North Americans, such optimism will one day be possible...but that particular time frame seems a little out of touch to me...

I believe there will always be a small amount of traditional top-loaders available for those who absolutely require them (folks who choose to use cloth diapers for their babies and must launder using higher water levels and better rinsing with classic non-enzyme, high-sudsing detergent, for example).

How much they will be priced is an entirely different story, however.
 
My guess is that Maytag and GE will cease TL production in the not-too-distant future. Frigidaire will most likely continue with the least-expensive models, keeping a small base. I cannot envision Sears not carrying any toploaders (or perhaps I dread that possibility too much to)...

To me, Whirlpool is the wild card....they have a significant number of FL's in production already...perhaps they will go totally FL, leaving a few remaining TL's badged as Inglis, Estate, and/or Roper, with an eye towards phasing out those brands over time, ala Oldsmobile?

Don't rule out that Brazilian-type top loaders couldn't (happily) be adapted to fit the new stringencies, either!
 
Well European and other markets have done mostly without top loading (as North Americans know them),for better part of 20 years or so and managed to have clean laundry. What is worrisome is the contiuned demands of varoius government so that even front loaders use so little water that good results become lessons in laundry chemistry and physics.

Also think just as there is a nice "black" market for vintage commodes, and other appliances made redundant by energy efficency guidelines, more people will be seeking out vintage top loaders for use, and not just collectors. Think also many people who chucked perfectly good Maytags and such because they had to have "new" will kick themselves and try to find replacements.

There are already reports of consumers adding extra washes and or rinses for both dishwashers and washing machines to many new models that do not seem to give value for money, so perhaps governments will realise scores of housewives adding extra cycles are using more water than if the machines had been allowed the proper amounts to start. Same as with "low flow" commodes, if people have to add extra flushes, where is the water savings?

As for top loader design, there are many things Amercian laundry appliance makers could to to get excellent results, and keep within that countries energy guidelines. Things such as built in water heaters and final spin speeds of 1000 rpms or more are not impossible.

L.
 
I wonder about twintubs

I wonder where this would leave twintubs,after all if used correctly they can be extremely water efficient by simply spinning used wash water and used rinse water back into the tub for additional loads.
Do our American friends think that a U.S. manufacturer might develop a really large capacity twintub,as you can get an 8kg capacity one here in Australia the Hitachi PSB990P.
It is sad I feel to see the end of the traditional top loader for those who really like them.
Cheers.
Steve.
 
"As for top loader design, there are many things Amercian laundry appliance makers could to to get excellent results, and keep within that countries energy guidelines. Things such as built in water heaters and final spin speeds of 1000 rpms or more are not impossible."

This is true....but in America, there must be a strong political mandate to force the manufacturers to adhere to at least some modicum of responsible awareness. Without a fundamental realignment of government's very incestuous relationship with multinational corporations and their very opposition to such basic elements as science, progress, and corporate responsibility, this is impossible.

We will continue our downward technological slide, to the detriment of everyone else on the planet.

So much for values....
 
Government mandated absurdity

No sensible person can object to keeping their own planet livable. At the same time, saving water and energy requires a certain amount of technological advance over the basically stagnant TL technology of the last several decades. Manufacturers have basically been resting on their laurels since the 1950s.
FLs, loaded correctly (and given sufficient water) get diapers perfectly clean, by the way. I can't think of one single thing which a non-pulsator TL can clean, which a FL can't do just as well; or better using less water, energy and chemicals.
We won't discuss the time factor...
 
Oh, I don't think initiatives will ever come down to penalizing anyone for possessing any top-loader that one already has in their home....that would be insane.

But there's a logical and sensible argument for simply adopting price controls to make reliable, effective front-load technology available to all income levels, while rendering new top-loaders with inefficient technology unaffordable by way of taxes, fees, etc., that is equitable to all.
 
Price Controls Do Not Work

Attempts to control any market by government only leads to more problems in the long run. Markets work best by free supply and demand economics.

Would be hard to lay the current sad state of American appliances totally at that government's feet. Though one could argue NAFTA and other Federal, State and local government polices have various roles to play. However it seems that American appliance makers simply have given up building applinaces that are for the most part "the way they used to", because few people are willing to pay the prices adjusted for today's dollars.

Sadly many today consider all sorts of appliances "throw away" goods, even what once were considered "major appliances", such as stoves, washing machines,dryers, dishwashers and fridges. There are people who chuck out perfectly good appliances after two or three years simply because Madame has decided to redecorate her kitchen and wants all new appliances. Or worse, Madame simply wants a "change".

America's easy credit/consumer society has made "throwing away" major appliances almost a no brainer. No washing machine? No problem Sears will sell you one on credit (at rates that would make the Mafia jealous). And when that washer breaks down within a few years (if that), no problem again, Sears will be right there with the same offer to sell you another one.

Top Loaders vs Front Loaders in North America

Think it is going to take another generation or longer before any sort of majority of Americans embrace front loaders. Despite the love of such machines shared by many, including moi, most Americans are wedded to the short cycle times, large capacity, ability to use bleach, and other features that have made top loaders the number one washing machine here. If energy prices come down or stablise,it is going to be an even harder sell. Even if energy prices go way up, many Americans (at least those with large incomes), feel they shouldn't be dicated to by the Federal government regarding how they do their laundry. If one has a large hot water heater full of hot water, what is the point of a washing machine that heats water, so the theory goes.

Will agree that innovation seems to have gone from Amercian laundry/appliance makers. Guess since almost everything comes from several worldwide conglomerates, what one sees are variations of models selling elsewhere.
 
Tumbler Washers

Tumbler washers have always done a good job of washing equal or in most cases better than t/l. For larger hotel & hospital plants there has NEVER been a top load machine, as tumbler machines did the job better with less water and chemicals and in many cases less time. Even the new "Tunnel" washers use the tumble wash type tubs and some even have the old style "WRINGER" type extraction,Just on a larger basis. Although twinnies may clean good they spread multitudes of bacteria. Also Ms madame wash bitch does not want to get her pretty little hands wet. If our dear do do birds in the government would let the mfgs. use the proper water levels the resorces would still be saved and and clothes would be very clean. What are we saving by adding a pre wash or a extra rinse?
 
Well boys and girls:

I have to tell you all that I stopped at Sears yesterday and to see my appliance friend there, and went to "jetsons" appliances to see my other. I brought this subject up to both and they both said the same thing. "Frontloaders are currently selling 2 to 1 to toploaders." It seems alot of people are grabbing on to the energy savings and water savings. Also, Being in the realestate field, and getting to go into alot of homes, (new construction and not new) I'm seeing at this point a 50/50 split when it comes to top and front loaders. Don't get me wrong, I, like many of you have a longing for the older machines. The sounds, they way the cycles operated, etc. However, this is where we (as a country) are headed. We, as a country at whole, have been a wasteful nation for a long time. It wasn't until the late '70s energy crunch, that people were urged to stop using warm rinse water and making it cold and Hot wash water to warm. Europeans, and other countries have been using frontloaders decades before Americans decided to even start looking at them. Yes, they've been around since the '40s, but people weren't buying them like they are today.
 
I believe Maytag will have about 5 or 6 TL models being built by WP coming out in January. They will all be direct drive. Sadly, I did not see the Dependable Care listed on the MAP sheet I was emailed. I think the end of the great line of washers has finally happened. They are still in production, but I think they will be done shortly. The Amana nameplate will have 4 or 5 TL direct drive models as well.
 
Whirlpool will be making the DD washer for another 5 years. They are tweaking the water temp (cooler hot water) in order to meet the standards. Was told this at the last service seminar I went to for the Cabrio washer.
 
I didn't see any particular toploader clearance sales in the flyers for post-Thanksgiving holiday shopping frenzy. I think that if any manufacturer announced the end of product line, we would see a news release and then maybe some clearance sales.
 
I don't have a problem with government demanding a certain level of efficient use of resources in design. If it weren't for their regulation of the automobile, we would not have a lot of the safety features we now take for granted. Plus, since so much basic research is funded with taxpayer money (via the military and the public universities) they have a right to tell industry what to do - within reason, of course.

But I think this is being driven much more by market forces. The "sexy" new machines are the front loaders. The machines they hype are the front loaders. The ones in the stylish new colors are front loaders. In our consumer based nation, despite our much vaunted variety of choices, most people will buy what the other people are buying, or what they saw on TV. If they see that Bree Van de Kamp has a front loader, they'll remember that when they go to buy a new washer. That won't be their only reason, of course, and most people would deny that it played a role, but research shows it does.

Also, if the developers are buying them for their new homes, that starts a whole generation of homeowners down the path of the new technology.

But don't forget one last thing: America is getting older and fatter. The pedestal based front loader is much easier for a senior or disabled person to use, because there is less bending involved (I had no idea of that until my mom told me how much she liked her sister's new washer/dryer because it's easier on her back)

No ones going to come and take away your top loader - and if a top loader technology is developed that is energy and water efficient, there's nothing stopping a company from producing them.

As far as cleaning ability, I will leave that to you guys, as you are much more knowledgeable about that than I am. But I will say that our Frigidaire front loader seems to get things clean. We don't have anything nasty like diapers, but both John and Sophia (our renter) are VERY particular about their white uniform shirts, and they don't have any complaints.

And look on the bright side: As people replace their old machines with the new machines, it opens up quite a market for us collectors :-)
 

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