CR Announces Death of Traditional Toploaders

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I would LOVE to see manufacturers save the TL'er by reintroducing the suds-saver. But I suppose since that feature can be bypassed by the user, it wouldn't count toward making a TL'er an Energy Star machine.

As far as cleanability goes, I don't know what kind of front-loader some of you have used, but mine does a fantastic job. I use my top-loader for fun loads and my front-loader for the really stained, grimy stuff. Maybe the old Westy slant-fronts and Bendixes couldn't outwash a TL'er, but modern ones are topnotch.

It's been mentioned here before, but the ideal washing action of a FL'er is actually enhanced by having less water in the tub. They might not be as much fun to watch, but they wash very well.
 
of course you are being gouged

In all fairness, one reason US-Americans rejected front loaders for so long was because their domestic quality was horrible and the foreign built units basically incompatible with the States - thus unknown.
I do wonder about the "smaller" capacity though. My LG is the European standard 60cmx60cm (for the überexact: 59.5 x 58.95) and washes 7KG or 15.4lbs.
Is that really so much less than US TLs really and truly wash? I don't think so. Especially since I can get a duvet in it and you can't with most US TLs.
But the prices charged in the US right now are absurdly high. The companies have seen a chance and are using it.
 
Yes, Whirlpool will be making their top-loading washer - tweaked for energy usage (110F Hot water wash) to allow them to continue production until 2012. I would imagine though, as the front-loading washers become more and more popular and slowly work their way in being "the accepted standard" for domestic use, the prices will fall simply from a supply & demand rule. There's nothing wrong with mandating energy/resource usage for appliances, something this country should have done years ago for all aspects of commercial and domestic markets. Look at refrigeration for instance; a refrigerator today will use up to 75%less energy than one made 20 years ago. Most people don't even notice the difference in the performance or reliability of the units (except the models from Maytag in the last few years - a new compressor should come with the replacement water filters) and the savings far outweigh the cost of implementing the new standards.
 
There is one specific thing pointed out by Coldspot & Greg that REALLY irks me about the toploaders now being sold--even the agitator Oasis/Cabrio. THE WATER TEMPS ARE BEING DUMBED DOWN AGAIN! 110 hot wash is absurd. I anm thankful I have a water heater which I can set up to 150 degrees when I want to for washing whites and towels, I typically keep it at 120 or thereabouts. The Frigidaire front loader IO now have allows whatever hot water temp is being supplied to it to be used, even if it's 150 degrees. My 1986 LK, with its ATC, kept the hot water temp regulated to 140, unless I turned off the cold tap. Maybe I should hold onto the Lady Shredmore lol. So, what am I getting at here, one of the reasons I like frontloadrs today, despite the fact I am basically a front load man, is imply this. With new top loaders dumbing down water temps, as they have for the last few years, I will willingly take a front loader with internal supplemental heater so that I can have very hot water ("Sanitary" cycles) when I so chose. Heck, even their hot water is 122-125 (LG) and 127-130 (the Whirlpool cousins). I am very thankful for my Frigidaire Steve 1/18 brought me. And I have been very plesed with its ability to retain the 150 degree temp for 18 minute wash cycle (prolly declines to 140), but that's ok. I"m sure the added gallon or so due to the "enhancement" also helps with heat retention. I"m just too much "old school" to give up on my hot water washes--after being energy conscious in the 90s and pretty much using only warm awter--and dingy whites. Yes Eugene, I know you love your CW Tide even for whites, but I"m justnot quite there yet. And as Greg and others here have pointed out and posted pics from time to time of thrown away TLers whose owners prolly did exclusively cold water washes, the outside of the wash basket and the outter tubs are pretty disgusting.
 
Bob is right

Any machine that is going decide for me what temperature my hot water is, is pooey! Less not forget that 110 actually INCREASES bacterica count, every 5 mins. it doubles! So wash your e-coli dishtowels in that. Not for me ,thank you.
 
My thing about so-called free markets is, with GATT and NAFTA and other such schemes, is it really so free?

If you buy a new "tweaked" top-loader and set the dial to hot and get deliberately cooled warm water, how is that in any way promoting the consumer's freedom to choose?

In my way, the machine would require the CAPABILITY to operate in the most energy-efficient matter, yet one touch of an override switch would provide substantial additional water if the launderer CHOOSES to use additional water, detergent, heat, etc., because they know (or believe they know) their individual circumstances require it.

At the same time, if the machine DEFAULTS to the water-sparing level, even purists like myself would probably be startled as to how clean very lightly-soiled clothing would come out, with less detergent and the like.

I'm typically American, in that I wear nothing twice, and a lot of my clothing is more in need of freshening than deep-down cleansing. This flexibility is something that would indeed prompt me to buy an F&P TL, that has a convenient setting for a full load of water if needed, than the Kenmore FL that does not.

Also, could there not be some sort of quality-control standard that is mandated by consumer watchdogs (NOT CU) and supported by the Feds, so the American consumer is not gouged? I saw, for the first time, a "Haier" front-load machine, and it cost $339.

Interesting, for the price...but is it reasonably reliable, and does it meet the new conservation stringencies?

Will lower-income people be relegated to flooding out their downstairs neighbors and hauling crappy machines up and down five flights of stairs every two years, and compounding the recycling and landfill problem just to have an affordable means of hygienic laundry practice for their family, which should not be a luxury in this day and age?
 
It, too, think it's ridiculous for a washer to dumb-down hot water. At the very least you should be able to bypass that feature. I hardly ever use hot water anymore, but when it's called for, it should be HOT. If you want to dye/tint, for instance, 110-degree water will not hold the dye as well as 140-degree water.

Bob-- I'm using temp-controlled cold water (65-degrees in both my Frigidaire TL and FL). I think the 'gunk' factor happens more if one is using truly cold water. In the winter, my tap temp goes down to the mid-40's. I can certainly see where that might gunk up a TL'er.

By the way, I'm glad you like your Frigi FL'er. I think they're a great little machine. If I still had my '96 pair, with front controls, I'd put them up on pedestals. That's the only thing I miss about my newer rear-control machine.

CR is going to rate the newest Frigi FL'ers, The Affinity, in their January issue. Wonder how it will stack up to the older models...
 
I was thinking that if they go ahead with discontinuing top load washers ...I dont think that anyone has thought that if they do that then they would also make replacement parts hard to get for them...thus forcing people to replace the machine with a more efficient one. Its coming to that too I think.
This is just the beginning of the government clamping down on energy/ water usage for washers. And each year or so its going to get stricter.
 
Bigger Picture

The broader picture of energy use isn't just what the machine itself uses, which on an individual basis isn't *that* big a deal. There's also the aspect that if millions of people change to frontloaders, that'll help cut down on the need for more power generating plants.

But also ... laundry is only a small portion of total energy usage on the planet.
 
One Bright Spot

As washing machines are forced to do more with less water, detergents must be by de facto clean rinsing/low sudsing. So we will finally have a return to the days when most all detergents were "ultra" or "condensed" for working in all types of washing machines (wringer, twin tubs, front loaders, top loaders, and now "HE"). Suds were a good indication of performance when using soap, high sudsing detergents just are not needed for automatic washers. Well only if one wants wash day drama. *LOL*

L.
 
Laundress

i wonder how many folks here NEED to see suds in the wash water? i think we all know suds dont matter... i'm not a suds maniac by any means, but i do feel a little... empty when i see a totally sudsless wash. i wonder how other people feel about the need to SEE suds?
 
David--I've noticed that I never get any suds when I use the highest water level in my top-loader. In fact, I washed a huge, highly-stained load a couple of days ago and used two full scoops of Ariel powder. I thought for sure I'd get a layer of suds, but I was wrong. The washer did suds lock during the first spin, though. I guess there just isn't enough water action at the top of the tub to create suds in my machine.

Anyway, to answer your query: No, I wouldn't miss seeing suds at all. I never see any in my TL'er anyway!
 
I only get *SUDS* in my F&P during the EcoActive phase (and sometimes it's a serious SudsCake). The deep wash phase *rarely* has more than a bit of foam around the perimeter of the basket, even if there was a SudsCake during EcoActive.

I've noticed in using Tide HE in my Calypso, that there may initially be some sudsing, although it's a more like a weak foam than a thick suds, but as the wash progresses the foaming tends to break down. The initial rinse phases look "soapy" but the recirculation is clear by the final rinse.

I need to try Tide HE in the F&P. I noticed this evening WM had one bottle of Cheer HE liquid on the shelf. They do carry Tide HE in both liquid and powder. And a new (to me, anyway), Tide HE 2X (double concentrated), which is also double the price!
 
While it is true many today still equate high suds with cleaning ability when it comes to laundry, a visit to any local laundromat will confirm this; people are going to have to be re-educated. If for nothing else to prevent damaging all these new washers that clean "wet wipe" style. Using only small amounts of water for both washing and rinsing does not leave too large of a margin for erorr.

Think a total absence of suds is something most find a bit alarming, but one can have a nice "soapy" layer of foam, without getting too carried away.

Personally will hang onto my vintage Miele W770 long as possible. Uses lots of water sure, but less than a top loader and it gets the job done. Even when the wash is very sudsy, the final rinses are clear because of the Miele design.

L.
 
I feel that each individual should be able to choose what kind of washer they want, what kind of water temperature, etc.
To me, it is a basic freedom and government should not interfere in the laundry room.

Ross
 
Well, on the face of it, I agree with your statement...but I do believe wasteful machines should carry a hefty, premium price tag, and perhaps be taxed as a luxury item.

We don't inherit freedom from our ancestors.

We borrow it from our kids.
 
It seems like the government is handling this issue with a very light touch, at least out here in the NW, where we are surrounded with water anyway ;-)

Aside from the Energy Star program, and offering rebates on new Washers, there's no push to replace older appliances. I really think it's more a function of the market. People want "the latest thing", and that's front loaders. Sort of like the people who insist on the restauraunt-esque stoves, even though they don't cook.

But down in places like the desert SW, where the Colorado River is being asked to do an awful lot of things for an awful lot of people, the issue of water conservation might be more pressing. In that case, the government being more insistent means that they're doing their job - although I'd really like to see them putting more emphasis on things like grey water reclamation and similar practices.
 
Brett

unfortuately when Tide introduced its first version of HE powder for my then new Neptune,it hardly sudseds and I loved that! And boy did it clean. But in the ensuing year they got so many complaints about that, that the next time I bought it ( you got a years supply back then with your new Neptune) it foamed so badly I threw it out. And it did not and could not clean very well.
The wash liquor + the mechanical action is what does the cleaning in any machine.
So if your load is being buffeted by suds in a FL then you have eliminated half of the cleaning action.
It doesn't matter how much suds you have in a traditional TL as they float on the surface and the wash liquor and mechanical action all take place below the surface. So cleaning is independant of suds top loaders machines.
BUT and here is the big BUT Americans having had their mothers and grandmothers grow up on soap and wringers where suds were the hallmark of a good wash liquor have become convinced through years and generations of experience that only SUDS=CLEANING. So the detergent manufacturers will ablige.
This knee jerk reaction is not good for F/L's and we all are going to have to learn over again what constitutes cleaning in our machines. Suds half way up the door only look purdy.
We invented the FL but we sure haven't adopted it yet.
 
There is only so much government can do with appliances in terms of water usage. Yes, they can mandate production of energy/water efficent appliances, but that pretty much is the extent of their solution. Now there are more drastic measures, such as raising water rates/taxes to discourage water use, but that would be too easy and probably cause such a furore it would be political self death.

As for front loaders versus top loaders in the American market, any wholesale switch to front loading washing machines would involve a massive switch in American washing habits. Americans in general are used to laundering large loads of laundry at set periods. For this they prefer machines that can process large loads of laundry quickly. The forty-five minute, one hour or more cycles of front loaders do not interest the average mother of 4 with a conga line of laundry stretching out the laundry room door.

L.
 
It's interesting that you mention water supplies and government, Laundress - there has been experimentation with privitization of water supplies here in the United States, which I think is a very dangerous trend. Luckily, it hasn't been going over very well.

I think Capitalism is an excellent economic system - the only sustainable system in the long run. But I also believe in a "level playing field" when it comes to basic commodities such as air, water, and power.

Large scale water privitization and industry-inspired allocation schemes could be a nightmare for middle-class and poor citizens.
 

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