CR: New SQ Front-Loader Leaps Up Ratings List

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frigilux

frigilux

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Speed Queen fans no longer need to scan to the bottom of the ratings list to find washers from their beloved brand.

The new front-loader made the most impressive gains, leaping from the dregs to an overall score of 70. Improvements found in cleaning (now Very Good), water efficiency (Excellent) and vibration (Very Good). Machine dinged for capacity, rating only a Good. For reference: Highest-scoring FL received an 85; lowest a 13).

The electronic top-loader gained a respectable 10 points, landing at 39. Improvements seen in cleaning score (now Very Good) and energy efficiency (Very Good). Water efficiency still rated Poor, even on Normal Eco cycle. For reference: Highest-scoring TL with an agitator received a 59; lowest a 23.)

So bravo to the new SQ front-loader for receiving the Most Improved trophy!
 
I agree, Bob. SQ are behind the curve on this, and could at least consider adding a "heater model" with additional functionality. 

 

While a heater isn't 100% necessary for good cleaning, without one, you are looking at additional time (and water) for additional pre-washes and/or soaks to reach the same cleaning levels as more TOL machines. 
 
.
I don't want a heater myself so this machine was perfect as is.
Also didn't want it any larger.
The problem with CR is for some the best machine is definetly not the top rated one because
one size does not fit all and it's hard to tell just what they are docking the product for; whatever it is may not apply to you.
 
I agree with Stricklybojack with respect to CR constantly dinging washing machines based on their load capacity. The other machines are much larger than I want or need. My largest load does not exceed 3 cubic feet. I wish CR would simply list the washer's capacity in terms of volume and dry clothes weight instead of the nebulas size rating they publish and make it easier for the buyer to decide.

In addition, all the top rated washers in CR's ratings took over 90 minutes to wash clothes compared to Speed Queens 55 minutes. If you wash clothes longer, of course they are going to get cleaner. And since CR tested the Speed Queen using the normal/eco mode, its wash time was 25% shorter than some of the other wash cycles. Thus CR was not comparing equivalent wash action. To do a better comparison CR should have selected a cycle that washed for a longer time. So I believe if you factor out the capacity rating and up the wash time using one of the other cycles, which will still wash clothes in less time that 90 minutes this would yield an additional boost in Speed Queen's performance.
 
CR likes machines with greater capacity as they tend to use less water and energy per pound of fabric.  Fewer resources are used washing one very large load compared to washing one full and a second half load, for instance.  Most loads I wash wouldn't need more than the SQ's 3.4 cu. ft. capacity, either.  But there's a large comforter (either from the cats' beds, the guest room, or my own) in the machine almost every week as well as huge loads of bath linens.  I appreciate the Maytag's 4.5 cu. ft. drum at those times.

 

I like CR's testing methodology, which uses warm water (only 75 degrees in most machines today) and the Normal cycle at the highest soil-level setting.  That's the go-to cycle for most consumers (myself included).  The exception to this rule is many here at AW.  However, it must be admitted this community is not made up of typical launderers.

 

Anyway, if a washer's cleaning score rates Very Good or Excellent under those conditions it's a keeper.  I suspect several manufacturers purposely make the wash tumble noticeably longer on the Normal cycle at the heaviest soil setting to boost cleaning scores in CR's tests.  The Maytag 8100 has three soil level selections:  Light Soil clocks in at 41 minutes; Medium Soil at 43; Extra Heavy at 75.  That's quite a jump.  The difference in wash times between Medium and Extra Heavy on most other cycles is only a few minutes.  

 

The near 50-point increase in the overall score of the redesigned SQ front-loader--given CR's demanding standards for cleaning and water/energy use--is remarkable. While I chose to purchase a Maytag, I say three cheers for Alliance.

 
 
I'd like to know: what IS excellent cleaning in CR's opinion? How much soil must be removed?

Reviewed.com gave the 5.2 Kenmore an 10 out of 10 score. It's Normal cycle "cleaned" like this. Now, if that is great cleaning... it might as well throw my clothes out in the rain.

logixx-2015092710395302218_1.jpg
 
I think these stripes are constructed simmilar to the test loads for dishwashers&#92dishwasher detergents:

This stuff is so tripple baked in and so hard to remove to exactly make it not vanish completly.
Differences in cleaning power are usually really small increments. I think german CR once put it that way that with dishwasher detergents, a day to day consumer usually won't recognize a best cleaning detergent from a 2nd or 3rd place; however, if they would test it that way, the consumer group needing TOL cleaning power won't get any help.

So, though these test stripes are virtually just as dirty as before sometimes, they are supposed to still be dirty.
 
CR always has an underlying agenda in all their ratings.
All of CR's appliance rating have to be taken with a grain of salt. Going in you have to accept that they heavily, heavily weight energy efficiency and water usage in their ratings.
For crying out loud, they were still recommending LG TL's during the phase when they were exploding in people's laundry rooms!
 
I won't apologize.  I've had a front loader without a heater to boost and maintain temperature and I have one that does have a heater now.  I can tell a big difference in cleaning.  With so little water placed in the tub, the water temperature quickly drops.  Eugene's and my Normal/Casual cycles are apparently very different.  I've used my occasionally just for fun to see how it does.  And because Eugene is quite happy with the results.  the times on mine for light and normal soil are both 59 minutes.  Heavy soil boosts time to 83 minutes.  Yesterday I decided I'd try it again just for fun.  Thee first load I just used normal soil and used hot because Combo52 says to use hot just to get warm on these energy start cycles.  There was no hint of any warmth coming out of the vent at the back of the machine during the first spin.  Meaning the water had cooled down to tepid or cool at best.  The heater doesn't engage unless stains option is selected on this cycle.  (I've also discovered this is also the case for Heavey Duty--go figure) The next load I used heavy soil and steam for stains and warm water to see if the machine could handle a big blood stain on a pair of pants that had sat for a week.  Cycle time was maxed out at 110 minutes.  The stain was removed.  And all I used as Gain HE detergent.  BUT the cycle uses so little water, I had schamltz (miniscule fuzz balls--like you see on surface of fabrics from pilling) all over the window of the door and I've never had that type of residue on my window since the last time I used the Normal/Casual cycle--which has probably been way over a year just because of so little water used.  But it's an adequate cycle for small loads as far as I'm concerned, but I don't do small loads all that often. 
 
Bob-- I certainly didn't mean to chastise anyone for not using the Normal cycle!  I've had great results with mine, but many of my loads tend to be smaller than yours.  After all, you are the reason the term BobLoad exists.  While precise measurements haven't been taken, I don't notice a big difference in water levels for the wash tumble of any given cycle.  Rinses are where the difference is visible and audible.  PowerWash, Allergen, and Bedding have a final deep rinse.  Delicate and Bedding cycles may use a little more water in the wash, but nothing to write home about.

 

One question:  Does your Whirlpool have an Extra Hot water setting?  The Maytag's can be used on almost any cycle and I'm pretty sure the internal heater kicks in to raise/maintain water temp.  Using that setting generally adds a couple of minutes to the wash time.  The household water heater is set at 140 degrees which means I nearly always use the dishwasher's Normal cycle without heat boost (cycle time 1:15) and it probably gives the washer an edge on temps, as well.

 

Here is a list of my loads and the cycles used for them:

 

BED LINENS: Normal (Medium Soil; Extra Hot; Extra Rinse if bleach is added)

 

BATH LINENS (always a BobLoad): Normal (Extra Heavy Soil; Extra Hot; Extra Rinse if LCB is used)

 

CAT TOWELS: Normal (Light; Ex. Hot; Ex. Rinse) or Cold Water Washing (Ex. Rinse).

 

KITCHEN/PERSONAL WHITES: (Large-to-BobLoad) PowerWash (Light or Med. Soil; Ex. Hot; Ex. Rinse) or Sanitize (Ex. Heavy; Ex. Hot; Ex. Rinse) These loads always incorporate a large dose of LCB.

 

DRESS SHIRTS: Wrinkle Control (Light Soil; Warm or Hot water)

 

BLACKS: Delicate (Light Soil; Cold water)

 

AROUND-THE-HOUSE CLOTHES (short sleeve button down shirts; summer shorts): Normal (Med or Ex. Heavy Soil; Warm) or Cold Water Washing (Light Soil)

 

COMFORTERS: Bedding (Med. Soil; Warm or Hot)

 
 
Eugene, I know you weren't chastising me.  I decided to arm myself with some information.  I let the my machine fill up empty for various cycles.  NormalCasual adds water to just the 5th row of holes at the back of the tub.  Guess whawt, so does Heavy Duty.  I used HD once with a hot wash and the heater did not kick in  at all.  At the end of the wash phase the load was cold.  N/C and HD are basically the same, except HD has fast tumble and N/C medium.  N/C with stain treat on hot gets to about 122.  On HD I think it will get to 127.  So no wonder people complain their laundry isn't clean, the two cycles people most likely use based up cycle name are these two and they use the least water.  but 99% aren't going to investigate why their machine isn't cleaning.  Whites, Allergen, Bulky Items, Quick Wash, and my specialty cycle Sheets/Linens fill up to the front edge of the tub and a depth between 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.  Jeans and Delicates fill to a depth of about 1.5 inches.  Jeans is simply Delicate with longer washes and interim spins and the "cool down".  My Hand Washables cycle, it wouldn't unlock the door when I paused it.  It definitely filled the most.  So, there's the reason why I don't use the first two cycles unless possibly a very small load.  And the heater only is used if the deep clean with steam for stains option is selected.  Bulky, White, Allergen, and Sheets/Linens all have the heater kick in with warm or hot or Sanitize temperatures selected.  No heater option at all for Jeans or Quick wash.  And obviously for hand wash or delicates too.   Incidentally, for N/C and Bulky, the max wash time with heaviest soil is 1:50 and steam for stains selected.  I ought to black out N/C and Heavy Duty on my control panel because as far as I'm concerned, they are useless cycles and if anyone ever did use my machine, I wouldn't want them to use those cycles either and those individuals would be pretty "dumb" about laundry anyway lol.  And consumers' ignorance yields poor washing results. 

 

No, I don't have "extra hot".  My temps are tap cold, cool, warm, hot, and sanitize.  My sanitize isn't relegated to just a specific cycle and I am not sure extra hot would get to sanitize levels, maybe allergen which is 130 or 133.  Whites used to have a target temp of 127 to 130.  But yours does have access to extra hot on several cycles as an option. 
 
Even when I use my SQ for a warm wash, I start the fill on the Hot/Cold setting to warm the drum before switching to warm/cold for the rest of the fill. Because my cold water is around 78F and my hot water is 145F, my warm wash is nice and warm anyway. For hot washes like the bath sheets, I run the sink faucet to clear the hot line of cold water before starting the hot fill. The heavy bath sheets absorb so much water that the hot wash is nice and hot and stays that way.

After the wash drains, I switch the selector to spin for a good extraction before rinsing begins to make the most efficient use of the rinse water in the two or three rinses using the Rinse/Spin setting. Using a non-sudsing detergent like Rosalie's makes a high speed spin possible for towels right after wash.
 
I get the print edition of Consumer Reports, which I will be ending as soon as I remember to call and cancel the auto-renewal. I may subscribe to the online CR after that but most of the discussion ends up here so it's unlikely that I'd use it much anyway.

I have an '04 Speed Queen with Boosted Hot temp selection and love it. For my whites, my son's work clothes, etc. it's a wonderful cleaner.

I'm glad to see SQ creeping up in the ratings, capacity will always get a knock from CR (and other "review" sites) but the design was/is created for commercial use and thus wouldn't be easily changed just to raise capacity without starting back at square one.

On the capacity subject, CR mentions in it's comments that the new Samsung holds 28 pounds of laundry and the Kenmore Elite (LG built) holds 25 lbs. The Samsung washer and dryer earned top ratings overall.
 
Bob-- Thanks for all the great water level/temp information! I've copied and printed that post so I can do the same with the Maytag for comparison. The next few weeks are going to be brutal work-wise---yesterday was the first day in ages that I didn't have time to pay a single visit to AW---but I'd like to have that arsenal of information for my machine as well.

Would also like to figure out if the water heater is engaged whenever Extra Hot is selected or if that occurs only on certain cycles. Is it possible that information is available in the service manual?

Gansky-- I like having access to CR Online, but wish they'd offer more specific testing information. I detest their signature red dot/black dot rating system. They rate tested items using a 1-100 scale so why not just give us the numbers? Example: Let's say a washer gets a cleaning performance rating of Very Good. I want to know exactly where in that 20-point spread the machine scored. If the 'Very Good' range is from 60-79 points, my decision on whether to purchase that washer would depend very much on whether it scored a 61 (only a point or two away from the dismal 'Good' rating) or a 78.
I think the rest of their testing methodology has actually improved since their vintage years, but the tells-us-very-little red/black dot system is a terrible waste of the specific information they gather during testing. If they don't want to abandon their beloved dots, at least make the exact numbers available as an incentive to buy their online subscription.
[this post was last edited: 9/30/2015-07:16]
 
If I'm ever in the market for a new washer, I don't think a built-in water heater would intrest me. Anything that uses additional electricity is something I avoid. And those "test stains" really don't interest an old man like me either. Other than wine, oldsters don't need to be concerned about things like oil and carbon and I haven't sweated since 1999. For me, another catagory called "bathroom accidents" would be helpful.
 
I'm not sure I agree with these huge capacity machines being more efficient as how often are they actually used full on a long wash cycle?
 
Have Two German Washing Machines With Heaters

And am here to tell you that aside from perhaps the longest wash cycles the heaters do not come back on once the set temperature is reached. In fact often not even then. Thus have never witnessed any of this talk about heaters required to maintain temps.

Posted this before that when one had a Malber washer which did not have a heater would do a cold or warm prewash followed by a hot fill wash. Measuring the water after main cycle as it drained there was not that much of a temperature drop. Indeed if one did a short spin between pre-wash and main cycle the difference was even less. On rare occasions when wanted to do a "boil wash" and added a kettle of hot water heated on stove again, the difference between initial temp and what came out after the wash was not that great.

SQ's domestic front loaders are taken from their OPL machines and as such a quasi-professional machine. In fact under the bonnet there aren't much different between these offerings (sold under various names including IPSO) and their hard or soft mount laundromat/professional machines.

Over on a coin laundry website's forum a member posted he could reach "higher" wash temperatures when using hot water if the programmed his machines to do a short spin between the cold or warm pre-wash and main cycle.

Historically commercial washing machines sold in the USA didn't bother with heaters for a simple reason; between short cycles and centrally heated water that could be in excess of 140F it just wasn't needed.

Commercial washers are built to do one thing; process loads of laundry quickly. The longest cycle in the new SQ front loaders at local laundromat is about 33 minutes for machines rated between 20 to 50 pounds. If one knows what one is doing (and one does) perfectly acceptable results can be obtained. This versus using my Miele or Lavamat that takes over one hour to do just eleven pounds of wash.
 
Thats an interesting point you have Launderess. 

 

I have found our 2012 Miele W5741 will maintain wash temperatures - you can hear the relay "clack," and some fizzling sounds begin during the pauses between tumbles, most particularly on 60º and hotter cycles. 

The door glass, too, remains warm through the cycles. 

 

I guess there might be *some* differences between a 1980's/1990s Miele and one from 2-3 decades later. Same with the AEG....
 
Same here

I was doing some cleaning in the basement and was pleasantly surprised to hear the heater click on and off in almost one minute intervals even towards the end of the 140F main wash.
 
With the Miele w1070 there is no mistaking when the thermostat engages heater as there is a very audible "click" or "clunk" if you like. If one wishes to shorten wash times once that sound happens can merely turn the timer a bit and it will advance out of the heating portion. Indeed the owner's manual states clearly one can do this if wished.

On the Lavamat the "click" is less loud but none the less if one listens you can tell when the heaters are engaged and or disengaged.

Now suppose if one's washers were located in a very cold/unheated area such as a basement or garage where heat loss might be greater thing would change.

This experiment is easy enough to replicate. All one needs is access to the drainage stream from washer and a thermometer.
 
 
I just perused the service manuals for the "old" Neptune frontload models with water heating.  The documentation says the heating turns on/off to maintain +/-5°F of the target.  Maximum heating time is the time of the wash period.

Cold temp with Stain Treat option and water heating option engaged will heat to 65°F if needed.

Warm temp with water heating engaged or Stain Treat is 105°F.

Hot temp with water heating option engaged or Stain Treat is 130°F.
 
Speed Queen is fine for laundromats. For home I want something not "old school". There have been quite a few improvements in the past 25 years you know. My LG made front loader does an excellent job of cleaning and extracting the water and partly that is due to heating the water to sanitize things. Besides, who wants the same washer and dryer for the next 25 years anyway? Join the 21st century.
 

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