de-sudsing with fabric softener....

[jmirawm]

Many times members will suggest the usage of fabric softner to "kill" suds in the rinse. <p> This kills the suds, BUT (being the anal person that I am) isn't the detergent, which is causing the suds to be, still there? <p> I really am thinking about washing the next load of towels with no detergent to see what happens. I have turned the dial all the way back to the beginning of the cycle to wash, rinse and second rinse again with no detergent.....and for fun i have brought the garden hose in and did my own spray rinse while it was spinning. HA! If mom could see me now. Tom

 

[veg-o-matic]

Here's more Scientific Fun!

Run a load of towels through without detergent, but with a dose of Calgon.

I know it surprised me!

veg

 

[toggleswitch]

my undertanding is that softners chemically neutralize the detergent and it changes form. So technically it is NOT there.

Some also add wax to re-add oils to clothing that was over-cleaned by detergent. So basically, just use LESS detergent for the same effect.

NEWSFLASH- shampoos over-clean the hair and conditioners put back greasy oil. Just use less shampoo.

And here is anoher useless Toggle tid bit- no more shaving cream? Use conditioner it is similar.

White vinegar (as I learned here) is also good to

1) Clarify Rinse (kills suds)
2) Prevent colors from running
3) Chemically neutralize detergents

ACID + BASE (alkaline) = SALT + WATER.

vinegar & detergent = SALT + WATER

"Salt" BTW appears to be a generic name for many chemicals that have ionic rather than covalent (electron) bonds.

 

[toggleswitch]

what's that do Mr. veg?

 

[launderess]

Most fabric softeners are nothing more than emulsions of waxes, oils,surfactants and water designed to coat fabrics. This coating smoothes fibers and also allows them to "untangle" and "fluff", and also stop static cling which is why terry cloth towels, as well as your hair feel nice.

Cationic (sp? too tired to look it up), surfactants are the main actors here, and these chemicals are found in all fabric softeners, and hair conditioners.

To the best of my knowledge fabric softeners as will soap added to a detergent wash will control suds, but the detergent is still there. By reducing sudsing in theory it should be eaiser to rinse the detergent away, but cannot imagine that oils, waxes and such have any effect on removing alkaline substances (which what most powdered detergents are).

Now vinegar will remove alkaline residue because it is a mild acid. Thus adding vinegar to rinse water will help remove remaining detergent and bring the pH level down thus ensuring a more skin friendly final result. Laundries add acid rinses "sours" to remove excess detergent/alkalinity and bring the pH level down, but only to wash loads done with powdered detergents. Commercial powdered detergents usually have been quite alkaline, because a high pH breaks down oils/soils , which is why Fels, brown, and lye soaps work so well. But with the use of enzymes and other chemicals powdered detergents have come down in pH level. Liquid detergents are almost always neutral to slighly acidic thus do not require "souring", which is why many commercial laundries have switched to them, as it saves steps and money (one less chemical to purchase).

Vinegar and salt have no effect on modern dyes. Ages ago when dyes were made differently both vinegar and sale did work to an extent which is where the tradition grew. Have vintage house keeping books from the 1920's and 1930's which suggest adding one or the other substance to prevent colours from bleeding. Mind you if laundering a vintage item, do give either a try. Was laundering a vintage red table cloth that ran like the devil, but a splash of vinegar in the water stopped the color cold.

By the way German Persil contains small amounts of soap for just the reason sited above; it controls suds and aids in rinsing. Silicone (an other type of oil), also does the same thing.

Launderesss

 

[toggleswitch]

Where DOES one get soap, for the laundry as Ivory Flakes are not detergent?

Do we have to use a cheese grater on a bar of Ivory?

 

[toggleswitch]

The fabric softener I use is the supermarket-brand watery stuff tht comes in pink and yellow (lemon). It comes in a gallon jar and cheaper than snot. (Louis I would say normally four litres but it is technically 3.78L LOL).

I put it in the bleach dispenser in my F/L Frid-Ge-More, which dispenses the bleach slot into the FIRST rinse. I use it more to kill sudsing and get clearer, purer rinses.

As usual, Laundress is right on the money!

Ingredients:
"An aqueous dispersion containing a fabric softening agent (cationic) fragrance,colorant, stabiizers and quality conrol agents."

LUV that it appears to have no wax/oil!!!

BTW since we (OK, OK--- I really) have now learned that liquid detergents don't generally need vinegar, I still like to use it with bleach which is alkaline/basic.

TOTAL TANGENT: ETYMOLOGY of words lesson for the day. (Yes, Ii will smack myself FOR you.)
VINEGAR (English) from the French "Vin Aigre" => sour wine.

 

[toggleswitch]

Ivory Flakes are *N O W* detergent

 

[foraloysius]

Actually Steve...

it's 3.785397L LOLOL

 

[toggleswitch]

*MWAH*

or *SMACK*

you decide.

We just can't satisfy you can we? LOL LOL LOL

 

[launderess]

IHMO, one could grate Ivory soap suppose, but grated Fels seems to work much better. Ive tried oilve oil soaps as well, but it seems Fels just kicks back those suds better than anything else.

Soap flakes can be found on various Interent sites, and IIRC Vermont Country Store had them, but as always their prices were highway robbery.

Since rarely use FS, rely on spinning and rinsing to get extra soap out. And yes, white vinegar in the final rinse.

Vinegar will neutralise remaining chlorine bleach in textiles, but it is important that bleach and vinegar not come into contact with each other as serious fumes can be released. Standard warnings about mixing bleach with other household chemicals applies.

Methinks wax and oil based FS's are going by the wayside in favour of cationic since the later is less likely to leave the dreaded build up on towels and such.

Launderess

 

[westtexman]

Laundress . . .

Do you use soap often? Do you have hard water? I'm afraid to use soap as my water is hard, and I'm afraid that it will cause buildup on the clothes.

Tex

 

[launderess]

Use soap sometimes when laundering bed linens made of pure linen because it makes them soft feeling. But in general you are correct, soap is very difficult to launder things with and can leave a nasty film, even with soft water.

My routine is this;

Pre-wash/soak in coolish water with about 1 tablespoon of Cheer Free/Gentle liquid detergent.

Main wash - Hot (140F or higher) with 1-2 tablespoons of STPP and 2 teaspoons of Cheer Free powder, 1 tablespoon of Ecover oxygen bleach. After the wash has started and previous products have been flushed down into the drum, and mixed well; add 1-2 tablespoons of either pure soap flakes,grated vintage Fels Naphta or grated Savon de Marseille, or grated lavender soap.

First two or three rinses should be warm, next rinse gets a splash of white vinegar, then a final rinse. If I am using bluing and starch, it goes in the final rinse after the vinegar.

Unlike today's Fels soap, vintage Fels has much of the same ingredients as detergents (water softening agents (prolly sodium carbonate and or borax),washer protection agents (sodium silicate)fabric whiteners (have no idea),and soil suspension agents, so it is quite like a detergent already. I still use a bit of regular detergent as it will not only soften the water before adding soap, but help with cleaning complex stains and keep soils in suspension to be rinsed away. The later is VERY important when using soaps, if the removed soils are not kept away from laundry and flushed away, they redeposit on laundry, leading to "tattle-tale" grey wash. No self respecting housewife would dare risk hanging that type of laundry out for all and sundry to see. OHHH how people would talk!

Really only use soap every now and then as it can build up in laundry and is very difficult to rinse out. For certian items like woolens however, nothing really beats soap.

Launderess

 

[jmirawm]

whispering from beyond launderess's clothesline....

How does she keep her clothes so white and bright? <P> Thanks all for the replies.<p> now VEG enquiring minds want to know (without rushing out to buy some calgon) What happens?

 

[westyslantfront]

My Recipe

For light and dark colored laundry, I fill up machine and add a very small amount of Tide, agitate for 2 to 3 minutes to remove surface dirt, spin out, then re-set machine for full cycle with normal dose of Tide powder. I also like floral scent fabric softener in the rinse such as April Fresh Downey.
The one exception is no fabric softener with terry towels as the coating from the fabric softener reduces towels absorbency.

For whites, it is hot water, clorox, and bluing added to Tide.

Bluing counters the yellowing action of bleach.