Democratic Convention in Denver

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There might not be an RNC convention next week.~

If that hurricane heads towards New Orleans, I think it would be in poor taste to hold a convention given the poor response to Katrina 3 years ago.

Those poor people. My thoughts are with them and I hope they are spared.
 
Dan~

I will respond to Rich via email when I get the chance.
Since it seems you always have the need to be right,I am not going there with you.
 
oh, I am thicker than you will ever know..

LOL..but, you and I could really get in it.

I don't want this thread to get out of hand, mostly due in part out of respect for Robert.

I will follow up, I always do
 
McCain will win? Not if people do even the slightest bit of

You want to talk flip flopping?...Look no further than John McSame

McBush McSame is playing with fire by throwing around flip flop accusations. Republicans get all up in arms when Obama changes nuances of his position or words a statement differently. McCain has done complete 180's and changed his fundamental position on virtually every important issue for years...sometimes within the same interview or within the same few sentences.

Some McCain video flip flops:



"...McCain spins more than Linda Blair in The Exorcist" -->



War for oil opinion -->


Hamas negotiations --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0odMKvT9fk&feature=related

McCain vs. Himself --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI&feature=related

Gay marriage --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeBw28tX5Nw

Afghanistan policy --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daO8e4y-RHU

GI Bill --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3FjHIbe_s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzr3pdXqZ98

ANWR --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-9QktuW7KM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_qZOjrxEMI&feature=related

bush tax cuts --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYsKiA3Myyw

Campaign Finance Reform -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2OMJLT5c4

WTF? -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_MrwkyGe1w&feature=related

Here is a short list of just some of McSame's flip flops. These are only the ones I could think of:

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush's warrantless wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even "terrible killers," "the worst kind of scum of humanity," and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, "deserve to have some adjudication of their cases," even if that means "releasing some of them." McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country."

4. In February, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain favored closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with Predators, McCain criticized him for it. He's since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving "toward normalization of relations" with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a "rogue state rollback" as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty's behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the "greatest critic" of Rumsfeld's failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as "a mission accomplished." In March 2004, he said, "I'm confident we're on the right course." In December 2005, he said, "Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course."

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good idea and a bad idea.

16. McCain said before the war in Iraq, "We will win this conflict. We will win it easily." Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was "probably going to be long and hard and tough."

17. McCain has repeatedly said it's a dangerous mistake to tell the "enemy" when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

18. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

19. McCain defended "privatizing" Social Security. Now he says he's against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

20. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn't.

21. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

22. He argued that the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party's policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

23. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won't commit to supporting a regulation bill he's co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris' former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

24. McCain is both for and against earmarks/pork barrel items for Arizona.

25. McCain's first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn't be "rewarded" for acting "irresponsibly." His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

26. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

27. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King Jr. before he supported it.

28. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he's pro-ethanol.

29. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

30. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

Economic Policy

31. McCain was against Bush's tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

32. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated," and "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a "very strong" understanding of economics.

33. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

34. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were "too tilted to the wealthy." By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

35. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

36. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a "'read my lips' candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?" referring to George H.W. Bush's 1988 pledge. "No new taxes," McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, "I'm not making a 'read my lips' statement, in that I will not raise taxes."

37. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

38. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

39. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling; now he's against it.

40. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

41. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to be voluntary.

42. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

43. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn't

Immigration Policy

44. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants' kids who graduate from high school. Now he's against it.

45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

46. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders "before proceeding to other reform measures." Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he'd never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his "top priority."

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

47. McCain said he would "not impose a litmus test on any nominee." He used to promise the opposite.

48. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration's warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

49. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

50. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn't.

51. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving "feedback" on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

52. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn't.

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn't.

55. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry's Democratic ticket in 2004.

56. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

57. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as "an agent of intolerance" in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans "deserved" the 9/11 attacks.

58. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending "dirty money" to help finance Bush's presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

59. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

60. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn't want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he "would taint the image of the 'Straight Talk Express.'" Kissinger is now the honorary co-chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

61. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was "corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff's gay lover." McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.
 
And another thing!

62. McCain was quoted as stating that he believed to be considered "rich" in the U.S., an annual income of $5,000,000 and above would be considered rich. WTF??

63. The hype of the number of he and Cindy's homes has drawn much criticism and disgust from many, including Arizona's governor yesterday.

As Hillary said last night: "No How, No Way...No McCain!"
 
A conservative view of McCain

This was sent to me by one of my clients - a staunch Republican his entire life with the added comment that he has no intention of voting for this "silver-spoon-fed party doll so completely out of touch with the reality of Americans that he doesn't even deserve a second look." This person actually was contemplating voting for Hillary and now intends to cast his lifelong conservative vote for Obama.

1. He has a consistent pattern of shocking verbal abuse, including screaming profanities, against Senate Republican colleagues who oppose his bills in any way; and

2. He has exercised scandalously poor judgment by intervening with the federal regulators on behalf of Charles H. Keating, Jr. in the Savings and Loan Crisis of the 1980s; and

3. He has worked against the principles of the Republican Party, promoting greatly expanding federal regulatory authority in order to combat global warming in ways that would greatly burden the American economy, contrary to free market forces; and

4. He has fought the Republican Party to create the Patient’s Bill of Rights, which allowed the government to impose a set of burdensome mandates on insurance coverage; and

5. He has undermined the principles of a free market economy by voting for an amendment that would authorize the Secretary of Health and Human Services to implement price controls on prescription drugs under Medicare; and

6. He has worked against the Republican Party to make a mockery of the rule of law, promoting amnesty for 20 million illegal immigrants; and

7. He has voted to subvert American Sovereignty by granting consulting rights to Mexico concerning the erection of a southern border fence; and

8. He has undermined the Constitution and opposed the Constitutional duties of the Vice President to break a tie on judicial nominations; and

9. He has worked against Conservative principles, undermining the First Amendment by abridging the free speech of citizens partaking in the political process; and

10. He has consistently led efforts undermining Second Amendment rights by promoting bills which regulate all sales at gun shows; regulations which force gun-owners to purchase trigger locks, making their firearms useless for self-defense; regulations which restrict the legitimate transfer of firearms over the internet; and regulations which extend the restrictions of the Brady bill to pawn shops and gun repair shops; and

11. He has voted to use taxpayer funds to harvest stem cells from human embryos; and

12. He has refused to take immediate and direct action to protect the life of the unborn; he opposes the repeal of Roe v. Wade; and he opposes a constitutional amendment to protect all human life; and

13. He sponsored and voted for a 282% tax increase on cigarettes that would have unconstitutionally violated the First Amendment and increased the size of the federal bureaucracy exponentially by giving the FDA unrestricted control over nicotine; and

14. He supports raising Social Security taxes; and

15. He has broken with the Republican Party in strongly opposing President Bush’s tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. He also joined leading liberal senators in offering and voting for amendments designed to undermine the tax cuts.
 
Well now

Shane,

I must ask you for your citations of information.

When someone wants to proclaim to be the information desk I check that claim.

That is why an Archives is important and my republican boss is a B***ch and wants to shut us down. I suspect you would too.

If you cannot prove your sources then belly up.

Everybody here knows republicans are on a money grab for the rich.

And you do not have sources to back you up.

And God help America should the Democrats loose this election.

Your kind might just go the way of Louie the 16th.

And I would welcome that.

If you sorry a** republicans cannot see what the country is on the verge of then you deserve your fate.

Ok Keven, stirred things up enough this go round?

I believe that is your goal.

And you got me stirred.

Happy?

Now tell us, what side are you paid to work for?
 
Rick~
To say that many Hillary supporters who now support McCain are racist is a bit over the top don't ya think?

No Shane, I do not think it is over the top.

Same is true with the rest of what I posted. Otherwise I would not have posted it.
 
everybody is going to vote how they want to vote.....

there is nothing in this thread that will change my mind. I thank McCain for his military service. I thank Obama for his service to South Chicago, almost a war zone in itself in some areas.

And I thank my brothers and their friends for their military service in the 60's, and two of our close friends who died in Vietnam.

My point is guys, serving in the military doesn't make any difference to me when I vote. Now if a guy was a high ranking General or Admiral or such, it might. But a guy flying airplanes, nope. But thanks for that service.

I want a guy that has smarts and isn't beholden to so many special interest. I don't think Obama is a perfect candidate, but hey, Ron Paul isn't running now and I liked his platform the best. So Obama is my choice. I think Obama can assemble the staff that can best manage the country and people and interest. Bush didn't do that very well with his neocons and such - the boy emperor just didn't perform. Though I like McCain in general, certainly better than any of the other Republicans, I just think he is headed in the same direction that George Bush is. And I don't really think McCain has the energy to grasp the good things from the Republican party and side-step the bad, or creatively find new directions our country needs to go. I sure wish he'd been elected 8 years ago instead of Bush. Oh well, shit happens.
 
Breaking News~

Not to get off Topic, but the local news is reporting that Caylee Anthony, the missing 3 year old girl from Orlando is dead.

the FBI has confirmed that DNA found in the car of the mother matches the little girl and that the FBI believes she is dead.

This is horrible news. If this mother is responsible, I hope she gets the chair.
 
Rick~

you are intitled to your opinion and I am intitled to mine. I sense that suggestions in your post of doubting my sincerity or honesty is a bit unfair. I hope I am wrong, since I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

and Greg, take it easy. Do what you need to do and vote. Whatever happens is out of our hands. If Obama wins, so be it and I will give him a chance to prove me wrong. If McCain wins, hopefully you and the other doubters will do the same.
 
"If that hurricane heads towards New Orleans, I think it would be in poor taste to hold a convention given the poor response to Katrina 3 years ago. "

Well, Bush and Company (including McCain) pretty much set the gold standard for "poor taste" by their behavior during Katrina, so why would they cancel their convention?
 
When someone wants to proclaim to be the information desk I

Yes, please do and I welcome that, but be fair and make sure that Rich's info is accurate as well. Some of what he posted is mere partisan opinion and can be debated.

my sources? Answers.com and Wikipedia.com in addition to several non partisan political books written on the life and service of McCain.
 
Bush, Former Governor Blanco and Ray Nagin are responsible for the horrible response to Katrina. How does McCain apply to this?

Take off your partisan hack hat for a moment Dan and be fair..or can you?
 
Same is true with the rest of what I posted. Otherwise I would not have posted it.

Whats to doubt??
 
Convention Time - My Olympics!

Take it easy?? Not when it comes to my (our) country and it's place as a part in the world community. As citizens of this country, we are charged with the enormous responsibility to see that it is guided in the direction that generations upon generations before us hoped for. One of the best things I've seen in this DNC convention is the references to our history and the progress that we have made. Landmark freedoms have been granted to our citizens, many times paid for with the blood. We have set an example for ourselves that billions of people can only hope for. I will do everything I can to see that at least my vote will stand on the side of history that generations from now can point to and be proud of. I truly believe you have the right to see the world differently, and speak what you believe as long and as loud as you like - I will even hold the synthetic detergent box while you climb up. We will listen to you, but expect dissent and heated debate - that's what we're supposed to do, another obligation of freedom. We are at a point in our country's history that we cannot afford another four years of waiting to do the right thing. The gloves are off and the floor is open, let's debate!

(Shane - I still have those blender jars, send me your address ;-)
 
OK enough

I'm putting my Confederate Battle flag back up (with all due respect to rickr) -as a sign of rebellion againt the last 8 years. And all you "republicans" kiss my hot dirty a*********

Got the message? If McCain wins then all I can say is God please send us another John Wilkes Booth.

OK Keven, stirred it up enough? Are you happy???
 
Please...

Please, lefts not go down the JWB path.

As an Independent I have so much vitriol I'd like to spew at the R's, I can honestly say I cannot foresee EVER voting for an R again. I can't see voting a straight ticket either so the Greens, Libertarians and who ever else is running will be getting some of my votes.

I am both sad and angry about the state of this Nation. Sad that it has come to this, and angry that so many idiots voted (and didn't vote) to let this happen. This is not the country I was born and raised in, this is a nightmare, and a Neocon's dream. Greed rules, and back room deals rule. Rights are taken away with a smile and a pat on the head, "Now, Now, trust us..." Like Hell.

Back in 2000 I didn't like Bush, but I wasn't overly upset he was appointed, I thought he was a simpleton and things would run on auto pilot until the next election --we all know how that turned out. I actively worked against him in 2004, and if McCain wins this year I'm looking at all my options. This will no longer be a country I'm proud of, the Neocons and the Religious nuts will have taken over. I'm 45 minutes from Canada, and that option will look mighty inviting if McCain is pres.
 
Oh Greg...

Don't get all worked up about Republicans. Even my father who's voted Republican all my life won't vote for McCain. His reasoning...we can't have more years of Bush. Now everyone get the younger folks to go vote. One things certain, the church busses get rollin' for the elections!
 
And back to the convention itself . . .

I was just thinking tonight how the networks are only airing highlights in the evenings. PBS seems to be carrying some of it live. I'm working with antenna reception so cable isn't an option for me currently.

But I was remembering how growing up, the game shows and soaps were pre-empted during the days while the respective conventions were held. During the summer when we kids were at home and nobody had or "needed" cable, whether we liked it or not we were exposed to the process. The networks made sure everybody was.

Today, it's very easy for millions of citizens to never see a minute of convention coverage on TV. I'm not saying we should all be force fed this stuff (and I'm sure CSPAN is providing nonstop coverage for cable/dish subscribers), but how can the opposite be a good thing either?

Meanwhile, I thought Bill Clinton's speech was superb tonight. I suspect people will be quoting his "power of our example vs example of our power" remark for quite some time.
 
Glad to say IMHO the Democrats are picking up steam, from what I have watched on CNN, the Clinton's stepped up and endorsed Barak Obama, healing the split in the Dem. party this is a good thing. I have to admit I teared up when Beau Biden told his families story of the horrible car accident that took his Mother and Sister on a Christmas tree shopping trip, Lets give Senator Obama and Senator Biden a chance, Many of us have, bitched and groaned for the last 8 years. I plan to vote for Obama and Biden. It's just the right thing for me to do. arthur
 
Scarier than McCain

If McCain picks Romney as VP, he better watch out for banana peels at the top of the stairs in the White House....
 
"Sometimes Delores, an accident can be an unhappy womans best friend. ..."

I'm sure there are a number of good reasons Obama has shied away from Mrs. Cl*tty as a running-mate.

The propensity for "accidents" befalling him to rise astronomically and exponentially in number may be one of them.
 
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