DOE Regulations - Air Conditioning

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

We bought our AS in 2011 and it came with the 10 year warranty. American Standard is now part of Trane. I wonder if Trane owned them when your system was installed? While the whole system has a 10 year warranty, labor is only covered for 5 years.
You wouldn't think that road work across the street could damage a outdoor unit.
 
warmsecondrinse

I have a 13 SEER Goodman single stage A/C. I suppose it qualifies as a high efficiency unit. It is a 2 ton unit mated to a 96% AFUE Goodman furnace, A coil, and air handler.

My new home is on a concrete slab, single level 1047 sq feet. I do notice somewhat higher humidity than I did when I lived in a circa 1986 condo. I probably have too many variables to pass judgement on the Goodman not being able to dehumidify; like I said, it runs full chat when the t-stat calls for cooling, no 2nd stage or low speed 1st stage. Same thing for the furnace. R38 in the attic is probably a factor in keeping the temp down so the AC does not have to run so much. Also I'm cooling 1 large living/kitchen area, 2 bedrooms and the house has Simonton vinyl windows with the low E glass.

I suppose a better test will be come winter when a furnace runs a lot up here in W. PA.
 
I get so tired of hearing the same old stuff...  My toilet need two flushes, my clothes are not clean, my furnace sucks and so on.  You know what?  My stuff works as it should.  I have a great low flush toilet that works every time, my FL Duet does an outstanding job of cleaning my clothes and my dual stage furnace keeps my home perfectly comfortable with much lower costs.

 

Want to know the secret?  I paid attention to what I bought.  I did the research.  I paid the money.  Change is inevitable, and without some push we'd still be getting  10 MPG in our cars and our homes would use 2x more energy.  Sure there is a learning curve for manufacturers and often they rush stuff into production that should not be made, but over time it all evens out.  As for disposable stuff that is a whole 'nuther story.
 
I spoke with him yesterday and he ordered a stop leak kit to introduce into the Freon. He is coming today to put it into the system along with topping off the Freon again. Hopefully this finds the leak and seals it. You would not think that road construction would cause this, but if you were here during construction you would change your mind. We have had stuff fall off of shelves. Glasses making their way to the front of cabinets, plates and lamps rattling all over the house. We have cracks in our floors in the basement, back steps and floor of the garage. Multiple lights burned out etc etc. We have at least 3 claims against the contractors insurance co. Our neighbors chimney is now worthless, he has had a room built onto his house that has dropped down a couple of inches plus his foundation although old is crumbling. We have a preschool down the street that has a lot of interior damage around doorways. They had to close off rooms because the ceiling tiles were coming down.There is an attorney that is going to handle all the cases together. This is just not us but along the length of the parkway being built. Many upset people. I could relate so many stories but not enough time here. So all in all I believe this a/c problem is a direct relation to the construction.

Jon
 
Evaporator welds fail over time from thermal cycling without any of those other things happening.

But if you can get the county or the contractor to pay for it, so much the better.
 
One of my concerns with the system we have is that the outdoor unit doesn't have the usual fins you find on units for cooling. This one has something that looks like its a bunch of tinsel strung together. I've seen this on several different brands.
I wonder why they switched to this type? It makes it harder to clean the dirt off the that part of the unit.
 
My American Standard air conditioners have those "spine fin" condensers. I don't find them difficult to clean but then my units are in a very clean area, no dirt, sand or plants. They seem to be very efficient.

 

I had these units installed a few years ago when the larger of the 2, 1999 Payne (cheap) units failed. Acting like "Mr. Know-It All" I bragged to everyone about how I knew everything about air conditioning and always kept the condenser fins clean and shiny. Well, they were shiny, but if I had bothered to put my glasses on I would have realized the "shine" was from the fins being bent over from the hose pressure. The unit overheated on one of our super-hot days and destroyed the components. I tried to straighten the fins with a "comb" but it was too late. I was a dummy X 10 and it was a pricey, stupid mistake.
 
Joe, that reminds me one of my own mistakes. years ago, I pressure washed under the hood of my car and I sprayed the condenser to remove the bugs. The fins were painted black and it was dark there but I was surprised to see how clean it seemed to become until I realized I had bent the fins on the 3/4 of it! Then I bought a comb, and spent hours fixing my stupid error... I didn't drive the car like that but I imagine that not only the a/c would have been less effective but that the radiator behind it I guess the engine would have overheated too!
 
Tranes have, for as far as I know, always had these spin fins.  I think the idea is that the fins help dissipate the heat picked up inside and better allow the refrigerant to cool down.  The fins provide more area for exposure.  Now if this is really true -  I don't know.  My unit is encased in a metal cover full off slits that point downward.  The fan runs and pulls in the air through these slits and through the fins, and blows it out of the top. I don't get a lot of dirt in the fins, but I try to rinse them off with a hose at the beginning of a season anyway.
 
I promised myself I'd stop posting all this nonsense

But speaking of using a pressure washer on a car engine, I just had my Ford truck detailed. The guy was highly recommended by a friend that deals in used cars. The truck looked new when I picked it up but half way home it was running like a bucket of bolts. I found that unknown to me the guy pressure-washed the engine. It blasted 2 spark plugs and the attached COD's (coil-on-plug.) In addition the enclosed air cleaner was full of water. It was $868.00 to repair it. It was a very expensive detailing. I should have asked more questions before he started. He offered to detail the engine on my Corvette for free but I said "ahhh, no thanks."
 
That photo is exactly what we have in our AS unit. The last Trane we had (1003 build) had conventional fins. I had never seen these spin fins before and to me anyway they didn't look very durable. The installer did tell us to keep the dogs away from the unit because if the dogs pee on it, the fins will corrode and we'll be buying a new unit. So we put up a small fence about 2 feet out to prevent them from going near it.

The way I used to clean the fins on our old unit was to take some Dawn detergent, mix it in a spray bottle with some water and then spray it on the fins. Let it sit for 30 min then use a spray from the hose (not too strong) and rinse off the fins. You wouldn't believe the dirt that could come out. A friend of ours says his A/c guy uses Hydrocloric Acid to clean his fins, straight out of the bottle! You would think that if he did that the fins would just corrode away. Plus that acid can be dangerous to work with anyway.

I haven't cleaned the fins on the new unit yet as I don't want to risk damaging them. What is the proper method to clean those spin fins?
 
Some contractors swear by doing a "burn clean" which is to take your torch and put it on the lowest setting that it will stay lit with a lazy flame and go over the dirt and burn it off. I personally tried this once and it didn't work for me, the cottonwoods wouldn't ignite and some of the fins were getting singed off so I stopped before I damaged anything.

The way I've always done it is to remove the top (including the condenser fan) and then remove all the panels and start spraying the dirt off. They can withstand a good strong stream but if your water pressure is real high be careful. These spinfin coils are harder to clean because they cling onto everything so it takes a good bit of time to do it all.

Later on I learned that I could clean the coil by just taking the top off and not remove the side louvers but I haven't tried it yet to see if I can get the coil clean enough without removing them.
I haven't cleaned our A/C's in three years actually, because I devised some makeshift screens to wrap around them during cottonwood season so they've stayed clean!
 
Spine fin is ok

but don't ever mash them. We had a JC Penney 1973 window unit and I recall mashing some when helping dad clean it.

We never got the straightened out.
 
Spine-Fin is a Trane/American-Standard thing, and has been for a while. The older Carrier 'Round-One' units also used them, IIRC.

Our system does not feature spine-fins, despite being from 31 years ago now.
 
They came out on wed and added the stop leak to the system then added 3 lbs. of r22 to the system. Had to run the unit for 3 hours non stop to make sure it had circulated through out many times to assure that was well coated throughout. Normal run time would have been 1 1/2 hours but I have at least a 30 ft run from outside unit to the air handler unit. Temp outside was 94 degrees. Temp inside at start was 80 degrees. Temp after 3 hours inside was 64 degrees. Was going outside to warm up. Turned it up to 74 degrees and left it there. Left the house wed night to go to the beach till sunday. With this heat wave we are having I am sure it is running regularly. He stated that they have used this in 5 or 6 different units and has worked for them, but no guarantee for me. lol Will know in 2 - 3 weeks if it is holding the Freon. Well I did my part for the ozone layer this month adding 6 lbs of Freon to the environment. Time will tell. It looked a lot like antifreeze for a car. Same color and texture.

Jon
 
GE Window Units

Had those spine fins, Frigidaires had the easiest to clean, they had round fins,these were individual circular fins that were great I thought.
 
Oh - get this

In 2004, when my house was built, a TRANE all electric heat pump was installed. I still have that same unit. I think (but I'm not sure) that it is 10 SEER? At any rate, I think it was year 2 or 3 that the capacitor went out. The next year there was a leak caused from vibration that caused the coolant to leak out. The following year the compressor died! It was under warranty but NOT the labor! So basically the first 5 years was PURE hell. But strangely enough the last 6 years have been pretty much trouble free. (KNOCK ON WOOD)

I hate heat! I keep my AC on 70F in the summer. But I make up for it in the winter by keeping the heat on 64 F. I prefer cold to heat any day. In a perfect world, the temp would always be around 65F outside with sunshine.
 
Spine fins do have more surface area than any other kind. And they're easy to manufacture. But they quit working altogether after a couple seasons in cottonwood territory. I know of no preparation or process to clean them effectively.
 
Starting to loose my cool over this.

Got home last night and turned down the a/c. @*$#%$# damn thing is not working again. With the stop leak in it I got 3-4 days of usage, now back to nothing. Called last night left message. They will call me this morning. At least it should be easier maybe to find the leak with the green liquid leaking. Well at least can sleep cool with a GE 10,100 btu unit I picked up the 1st day I had problems. Not a bad unit but not built like they used to be. Much lighter and a lot less metal in it. Digital but not that accurate. There is a 4 or 5 degrees swing no matter the settings. Shall wait for the call and see what happens today. Already into this for close to $500.00.

Jon
 
It's about 67 at night in New Hampshire, why would you need an air conditioner? Can't you just open a window and get a fan or something?
 
Currently (at 11 PM), it's 77°F in Nashua NH according to the Weather Network...

 

Even here, it's just 68°F outside but it feels like 75°F and I have the a/c running right now.

philr-2015080322053606685_1.jpg

philr-2015080322053606685_2.jpg
 
Its 75 degrees already this morning. We have been hitting 90's for the past several days now, plus very high humidity and dew points. I need air conditioning. If you have not read in my previous postings, we are across the street from a new parkway being built. There is no opening windows. During the work day from 7-4 it is like living in a sand storm outside. The wind blows and the dirt and sand comes along with it.I was driving in yesterday and you could hear it hitting the windows and the vehicle. Even at night it is still lingering in the air. If I sleep at night with the windows open all I do is sneeze all night. The service people I have which is a father and son team are not able to come till next Tuesday. The fathers mother died and the funeral is this week, plus they already had major jobs scheduled this week. They are going to start outside taking the unit apart to see for a leak. Then proceed to the air handler to check for leaks. If none then will check piping in the walls. Should be able to repair or replace what ever is leaking I hope.

Jon
 
Out with old in with the new

They stopped by yesterday and took the unit apart outside. With a sensor they were able to establish at least 3 or more leaks. Pressure was almost gone in the system. Decided to replace rather than repair. Ordered yesterday and they are coming on the 19th of this month at 8:00am to remove and install the new one. Wow I was taken aback by the price since it was all included when the house was built 8 years ago. Yesterday was nice enough outside and construction now has crawled to sidewalks and medians being installed so not as much dirt around. Opened windows last night for the 1st time in months. Went down into the lower 60's finally and nice and cool for free this morning. Need free after chocking on yesterdays info lol.

Jon
 
While waiting patiently on another 95 degree day for Wednesday to approach, I went onto American Standards website. On reviewing the info on the warranty, I was a bit surprised. To have the warranty valid for their units, you need to have the system serviced twice a year by an authorized service center. What the heck? What are they going to do twice a year that is going to help this live longer? I had holes develop in the condenser coils. No maintenance that I know of is going to prevent this. Sounds like a money making opportunity for their service organizations. Anyone have this service done twice a year and if so what do they do to justify this visit. Are other manufacturers requiring this also?

Jon
 
My Two Cents,

(For what they're worth)

 

A lot of people are nigh-unto criminally negligent when it comes to HVAC systems.

- Never changing and/or cleaning filters on a monthly basis (or up to three months with SOME filters)

- Never bothering to clean the condenser and evaporator coils

- Refrigerant charge (which can change quite quickly in a short period)

Just three that come to mind.

Dirty filters severely restricts airflow, and can result in abnormal system pressure, as can very dirty coils (which also decreases efficiency). A lot of people are scared of breaking something OR voiding the warranty with coil cleaning. 

 

With systems using hot water or gas, I suppose checking the plumbing, pilot adjustment, burners, heat exchangers, valves, ventilation fans and so on is important

 

And with forced air systems, perhaps checking to ensure the dampers in the house are setup correctly, according to loading and system design and operation. 

 

On heat-pumps, particularly, a biannual "service arrangement" is probably ideal, as you have a system that's running practically constantly through the year - so the coils are going to be accumulating dirt and muck. In some areas, you can plug a system pretty quickly with foliage, dust/dirt and so on (esp. with the aforementioned spine-fin coils).

 

What I mentioned above is the least of what I'd expect from a service arrangement. If not, I'd find another tech, IMO. 
 
Back
Top