Don't Do LG Topload Washer Recall Unless You Want Wet Clothes

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I will admit that does kind of irk me.. How back in the late 1940's, GE, Frigidaire and so forth could have top loaders spinning at 1140 RPM without issues.

Somehow it's just a big deal these days.. You'd think with CAD/CAM and simulations, they could design a washer that spins at those speeds easily.

The only rationale I can think of as to why modern washers can't do it without exploding is because of cost cutting measures.
 
People Were Allot Less "Sue" Happy In The 1940's

Well at least in the United States. *LOL*

IIRC Frigidare dropped their 1100rpm spin speed as the tub grew larger for greater capacity. The early models with fast spins had more of a bowl shaped tub, sort of what one finds in commercial extractors.

F&P's washers spin at >1000 rpms, so it is not unheard of for modern top loaders to reach those speeds. However IIRC Consumer Reports rates F&P washers as more repair prone than others on the US market.
 
F&P's washers spin at >1000 rpms, so it is not unheard o

Looking at AJ Madison, there are a bunch of GE, Maytag, Whirlpool, Samsung... and LG washers that spin at 1100 rpm. GE and Samsung are even up to 5 cu ft.
 
With "exploding washers" do we have two distinct problems? One is clearly drum integrity. We've seen the photos of the drum literally unravelling from the G force of high spin and shooting through the outer tub and cabinet.

Is the other suspension integrity? Whereby the machine damages itself as a result of an unbalanced load plus substandard (plastic) suspension mounts. And/or, no effective means of detecting imbalance.

Our 50s Westy would whoop and bang and dance across the floor if the contents glommed up on one side of the drum. It would unseat the upper-rear suspension elements which would have to be reseated. I can't count how many times I did that. But it NEVER destroyed itself or anything around it.
 
Well, when I've put my arm into these new HE machines, it seems to me like the tub moves around way too easily. I can bang the tub against the cabinet without trying too hard.

On machines which have more conventional suspensions, I have to work hard to do that.

So I know it must have something to do with the suspension. I would sooner that the washer hop around than slam the outer tub into the cabinet.
 
Spin Speed And Water Extraction

It is not the spin speed alone that determines the centrifugal force that acts on the water to remove it from the laundry. The diameter of the drum is also a factor. The smaller the drum the faster it has to rotate to generate the same centrifugal force as a slower turning larger drum.
 
Well Be That As It May

Then why do laundromats have front loaders with such poor extraction?

I peeped the door labels inside of the SQ's at our local neither the small, large nor giant units spin >600pms, and yet wash emerges almost dripping compared to the Miele at home.
 
Then why do laundromats have front loaders with such poor ex

It's an overseas problem apparently!
Here all the laundromats I've seen have machines with spin sped of 850-1600 rpm

(circa 350G, depending on drum size!)

What matters the most is gas and electricity use for drying, you buy 15 minutes per €, but with high spin speed they can tweak the temperature to a lower setting and have less energy used for much more profit!

Only old hard mount machines or gigantic sized ones have slow spin speed of 500 or so rpm
 
Spin Speed and Water Extraction

Launderess,

What is the diameter of the drums in the machines at your 'local' and what is the diameter of drum in your Miele at home? The other factor is what are the actual rotational speeds, not what is printed on the labels?
The relationship between the product of speed (rev/min, or rpm) and drum diameter is not direct, i.e. without going into the physics/mechanics of the situation the centrifugal force varies as the square of the angular velocity, meaning that leaving the diameter the same doubling the speed will quadruple the centrifugal force.
For the purists I have assumed that the centrifugal force acts directly opposite to the centripetal force as most folks can understand that.
Now take a drum 20 inches in diameter rotating at 500 rev/min we get a centrifugal force of 20 times 250,000 of whatever units we are working in, now up the speed to 600 rev/min and we get 20 times 360,000 units. That is an increase of 44% in the centrifugal force for 20% increase in speed.

http://phun.physics.virginia.edu/topics/centrifugal.html
 
I Have To Share This

LG customer service representative was supposed to place a "defective return" order for my washer on 3/11/13. I was told by the rep. that I would be contacted in 3 to 5 business days. I called today (the 5th business day) to see what was going on with my case. I was told that my washer was out of warranty and there was nothing LG could do. I saw red. I demanded that I have the number to headquarters. All of sudden after being on hold for 5 mins, the rep came back and explained to me that the defective return order was never filed on 3/11/13. He assured me that he would put the order in today and I would be contacted in 3 to 5 business days. I have had enough.

I found the address and telephone number to headquarters. I called and asked who the president of LG Electronics Of North America was and his email. I wrote him a lengthy email detailing all the calls and experiences I have had since this recall work was done. I asked him to take back my set and refund my money. If I do not get any satisfaction from him, I will take further steps to rectify this matter. This is ridiculous.
 
!

'Bout bloody time somebody got onto LG and gave them a kick in the backside! (Please excuse my language). Good to see that you are going to pursue this issue to the bitter/sweet end. Its about time customers started nudging the manufacturers, if they are gonna build cheap, they might as well warn you their machines are piles of sheet, or just build 'em better! 

 

Thanks for posting, and please do keep us updated on this matter. It'll be interesting to see if LG cares enough to help you, being "scared" of any lawsuit threats, them doing it to stop you annoying the President of LG or them not do anything, because they aren't frightened of "Just one person" (But who knows if you are a billionaire and can afford big, massive lawsuits? They don't, for sure. Use that to your advantage!).

 

Thanks again, and I wish you the best of luck in regards to this matter!
 
Good News!!!!

After emailing LG's CEO Wayne Park, I received a call from LG offering me an offer to buyback my washer for the price I paid. I accepted. I feel awesome. I sent him an email thanking him for his assistance. The only downfall is I have to sell my dryer because I must have a matching set.

I saw the LG mega-capacity frontload set at Sears for $1250 each with an additional 20% off because I am purchasing four or more appliances. That would mean I would get the set for about $2000. Great deal. I cannot decide between the Speed Queen frontload set and the LG set. LG has a bigger capacity and faster spin speed (1300rpms). However, I cannot get the washer to use a little more water due to my skin sensitivity. The Speed Queen will last forever, but the capacity is smaller and the spinning rpms is only 1000rpms; however, I can get it to use a little more water for better rinsing. Decisions. Decisions.
 
How many extra rinses can the 8000 do? I have played with some of the Kenmores (by LG) and each press of the Extra Rinse button would add another rinse - five rinses in total. The Speed Queen can have its water level adjusted and is durable for sure. Some people have commented that its pulse spins don't remove much of the sudsy water between the rinses, though. Hm...
 
I steered friends with four kids toward the new mega LG pair (model WM8000 for the washer) and they love it--and the LG dealer loves me for selling a TOL set off the showroom floor for him.  I was concerned about vibration issues, as they're installed just off the kitchen in a first-floor laundry room, but when I was there a few days ago to watch it in action (a maximum-capacity load of various denims) there wasn't a vibration to be felt (no pedestals). They both felt the increased cycle time was offset by the cavernous capacity.  Let me tell you, those machines are huge inside and out.  5.1 cu. ft. drum in the washer; 9.0 in the dryer.

 

They are not, however, "washer-heads", nor do they like doing laundry (hence the laser-focused desire for huge capacity).  Nearly everything will get washed on the Normal cycle in warm water.  I did convince them to use Tide Vivid HE---although I couldn't coax them to use the higher-rated powdered version---instead of whatever is on sale, so they are happy with the cleaning.  I told them about the Turbo-Wash setting, which sprays water on the load and shortens the cycle length, but I'm sure they'll never use it because it would mean pressing another button, LOL.  They did use the Allergy cycle for bed linens, and the Sanitize cycle for a load of whites, so maybe there's hope.  They're thrilled to be able to wash all the comforters and bedspreads at home.  Unlike many, these are folks who will definitely fill the washer to maximum capacity with nearly every load.  We'll see how durable it is under those conditions.  And I stressed the importance of always, always, always leaving both the washer door and detergent drawer open a few inches to prevent mold/mildew.

 

Their prior pair was a 15-year old Whirlpool DD set they received as a wedding gift.  I warned them going into the purchase not to expect the same lifespan from the LGs.  CR reports great reliability for recent LG washers.  Let's hope they're still speaking to me in five years!

[this post was last edited: 3/26/2013-06:39]

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Thanks For The Information

Logixx,

I am concerned about the pulse spin not getting the sudsy water out of my clothes too. I've read that with the increased water levels, the clothes are rinsed very well afterwards. I have skin sensitivity to detergents. I used the Tide Free and Clear, but I don't feel it cleans as well as the regular Tide. That's why rinsing is very important to me.

Frigilux,

My main concern is buying a set and in 5 to 6 years it breaks. I do not want to keep buying new machines. I have purchased at least 10 sets within the last 27 years. Some were returned because I didn't like the performance. I fell in love with my LG topload set. No complaints at all until the recall work was done. Now I just want a set that will wash, rinse, and dry well as well as last for a long time. These machines are getting more and more expensive while being made to be junked in a few years. I think the Speed Queens will be my best bet.
 
powrbruh: Almost identically, I've purchased 9 washers (but only 7 dryers) in the past 26 years! None of mine have been returned, I just get antsy for a new machine every few years. I've never worn one out, so I have no idea what their useable lifespan would have been. I usually pass the used machines onto someone who needs a washer or washer/dryer pair. So, as odd as it sounds, I never make a purchase with the machine's longevity in mind. You're right to purchase the Speed Queen pair if you're in it for the long haul.

I'm surprised the LG doesn't have some sort of "Water Plus" feature---I know their top-loaders, do; although I understand you can only trigger it after the machine has sensed, filled and begins agitation, which would be annoying. It's not something you can set at the beginning of the cycle, as I can with my Frigidaire front-loader.

I've seen the Speed Queens at my local LG/Whirlpool/SQ dealer and they definitely look brawnier than other washers. If SQ's provided more cycle options---like lengthening the wash time for my super-stained loads of kitchen whites---and an internal heater / sanitize feature, I'd consider getting a pair, myself!

I did point out the SQ front-loaders to my friends, and talked about their commercial-build quality, but they saw the capacity of the LG 8000's and that was that, LOL! I have to say I was impressed with how quiet the LG was spinning that huge load of denims, and they really like the fact that the dryer finishes well before the washer. They can fold and put away a load before the next one is ready for the dryer. No more backed-up loads of wet wash waiting for the dryer.
 
I agree with Eugene on the lack of certain features on the SQ FLs. A soil level switch would be nice. An automatic (warm) prewash function, if one's washing items with protein stain so you don't have to start a warm wash, cancel it midway through the cycle and start over again on hot. A heater for hot washes so you don't have to start an empty hot wash, cancel, load items and start another hot wash with the tub preheated. All that is doable but I'm just spoiled by my fully-automatic washer...

Of course, the SQ is sturdier than the LG.

Here are some take-them-with-a-grain-of-salt reviews of the two washers:

http://www.washerdryerinfo.com/ratings.htm?_type=Appliances::MajorAppliances::WashingMachine

http://www.washerdryerinfo.com/products/speed-queen-afn51f
 
To Powrbruh...

Still considering getting an LG!

I decided not to get an LG flatscreen just reading about your ordeal. They might make great TV's... but I just couldn't.

Thanks for sharing your story. Consumers almost always get a fair treatment. Too bad they have to fight the way you did to get there.
 
Frigilux,

I have done the same as well. I get bored with the same ole set and want something newer and nicer. I am learning that newer and nicer does not mean quality and longetivity. I have spent quite of bit of cash buying appliances. Quite a bit. I just purchased a home. It has a top-of-line, direct-drive Kenmore set. The shredmores as they are called. I had a set myself. Ripped and torn some of my clothes badly. I gave them to my mom and purchased me a topload Speed Queen set. I got bored with them and wanted the new LG topload set. I said it is time for me to stop buying all these machines and get something that will last. The shredmores sound as if the transmission is going. Very loud when spinning.

Pierreandreply4,

I would love to get my hands on a 20lb Capacity Montgomery Wards set with the burpilator agitator. Those were my favorites. I like the Kenmore and Whirlpool belt-drives too.

Logixx,

I am bummed out by the Speed Queen FL not having certain features too. The smaller capacity, the lack of internal heater, and the 1000rpms spin speed. However, I know it will last me for while.

Huebschman,

No I am no longer considering the LG's. I decided if I get a new set, it will be the Speed Queens.
 
Hey Powerbruh,

I own a Huebsch (Aka Speed Queen) front loader and so far I'm quite happy with it.. I don't think that if you bought one, you would regret it. I like a company that stands behind their product. I'm glad to see you got everything worked out with LG.

I initially thought that the smaller capacity of the front loader would be an issue, but in all honesty, it really isn't. It holds more clothing than my old 4.1 cu.ft GE toploader. For example, my GE could handle 7 pairs of 40/32 jeans, my Huebsch can handle 10 pairs. That's at least four weeks of laundry right there. Well, at least for me anyway.

What I find that I can't do is wash a thick double sized comforter in the machine. Well, I can, but it is a very tight fit. The problem isn't so much that the washer can at least get it wet, is that the dryer doesn't have enough capacity to handle it, so I feel that the washer is a well sized fit for the matching dryer.

One of the biggest issues people don't realize, is that a larger capacity drum means more stress on the components of the machine. If the components are good enough for 8 kg (About 16 lbs) of clothing but due to the size of the drum, a person can manage to cram in 16 kg (About 32 lbs) of clothing, all they are doing is making money for the manufacturers when the bearings give out after a few short years of service. It gives me peace of mind to know that even if I do cram the drum full on my Huebsch, whatever I throw at it, it will handle it.

Realistically, for those really large loads (ie. Comforters, Duvets, etc) it isn't that expensive to just wash them in a triple loader at the laundromat and dry it in a large capacity dryer which won't bake it and will dry it quickly.

I have to admit that it would have been nicer if Alliance had put more features into their FL, but realistically, compared to my old TOL GE set, we never really use more than two cycles, "Regular" and "Delicate".. Heck, I don't even bother with the permanent press cycle, although it is nice to have if I need it.

Since most American Front Loaders are not designed for cold fill anyway and most Americans and Canadians have gas or electric water heaters, I can see why Alliance got rid of the heater feature. 120 volts kind of sucks for that anyway.

The 1000 RPM spin speed I find really isn't a problem. The dryer is up to the task of handling it. I replaced my GE electric dryer with the Huebsch gas dryer and right away, my utility bills dropped by an easy 20 percent. If I'm washing items which retain lots of water, I'll just use my spin dryer. Better to wear out a cheap spin dryer than an expensive washer.

When I was shopping for machines, I found that things like Ecobubble and Steam Generators really didn't add much value in my eyes. It made me wonder if it was another thing that would and could break, resulting in an expensive service call. Turns out I was right. (At least for the latter anyway.)

I'm thinking carefully about how Alliance could tweak their FL washer so that it didn't look like a consumer grade BOL machine, but in all honesty, I can't. Even if they thought up another 16 cycles, developed catchy marketing terms for cycles or options (ie. ExpressWash) or put in a UK-Style Medic Wash, I don't honestly see how it would really improve the performance of the machine.

If I was going to improve on perfection, the only thing I would add is a second pressure switch, which would switch in so that a low water level could be used for washing and a high water level could be used for rinsing.

I don't think it would hurt if they sold a model which runs off of 240 volts and does Euro-Style boil washes and 60 C washes.. for those who prefer not to use bleach due to the smell. At least that way, the machine could be designed for a cold-fill environment with a hot water inlet as an option.
 
I've always thought a washer can get by with one or two complete cycles; they simply have to be versatile.

Case in point: The Normal cycle on my Frigidaire Immersion Care top-loader. The agitation time ranges from 8 to 60 minutes. You have your choice of a water-saving multiple spray rinse or a deep rinse. The final spin can be as brief as 2 minutes or as long as 12. (Unfortunately, the deal-breaker is that the choice of water temperature ranges from tap-cold to lukewarm.)

This is my issue with Speed Queen: No options, no choices. I don't care if it's built to last 50 years, I will be frustrated with the inability to so much as add an extra half hour of wash time without going back to the machine and resetting it manually.

Powrbruh, I understand your desire to buy a dependable machine for the long haul. While I change washers fairly frequently, my only car is a 19-1/2 year old Geo Prizm (a rebadged Toyota Corolla) with 257,000 miles on it which I will continue to drive until the wheels fall off. But I predict your boredom threshold with the SQ will be reached very quickly.
 
LG Contacted Me Again

Qualin and Frigilux,

I thank you both for your input. Another representative from LG contacted me this morning and offered to replace both my washer and dryer with the 8000 frontload set. I had to pay a small fee, but I accepted. The fee is nothing compared to the $2400 I would have had to spend to get the Speed Queens. I just hope I like them the way I liked my toploader set before the recall work was done. After going back and forth with myself, I figured I made the right decision especially after just purchasing my first home. Also, this will be my first time owning a frontloader.
 
Wow, that was an unexpected turn of events! The 8000's have been getting great reviews, and I hope you like them. Front-loaders have been my "daily drivers" since 1986, so I've forgotten how different it seemed compared to growing up with a top-loader.

I think you're going to have a ball playing with all the cool features on the 8000s! Don't expect to see water in the tub, just saturated clothes. It's odd, but it works. You'll probably want to use the extra rinse option consistently if you have skin sensitivity ssues. And by all means, try the Sanitary cycle for loads of stained whites. You'll be amazed at the results.

The Speed Queens are built like tanks, and I respect Alliance for standing up against the cheap plastic machines of the world (like my Frigidaire front-loader---which I love, by the way), but you've stepped straight into a machine with huge capacity (not that you'll always use it, but it's nice to have when you need it) and an encyclopedic array of features. Congratulations!

[this post was last edited: 3/27/2013-17:24]
 
No Water In Tub

Frigilux,

I am hoping I can get use to seeing no water in tub. I've been reading reviews on the 8000's all morning. Mostly good things. I am so old-school when it comes to washing. Lots of suds and lots of water. My LG toploader had a button for Water Plus that I used just about every load. Not in excess however. Just enough to get the clothes swooshing around. In my OCD mind, I believed they were clean.

The frontloaders in the laundromat use enough water too. I see the water splashing and the clothes tumbling. I feel they are being washed thoroughly. Now I will see no water and no suds. I guess I am going to have to get accustomed to this if my clothes are clean. I do visual and my infamous sniffing test when my clothes come out the washer to make sure they are clean to my liking. My partner thinks I am crazy. LOL!
 
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