Don't Do LG Topload Washer Recall Unless You Want Wet Clothes

[launderess]

@qualin

IIRC the mandated energy restrictions/use for American washing machines take into account the amount of water left in laundry after extraction. One supposes this factor was included because most Americans dry their laundry in tumble dryers.

Either gas or electric heated the use of dryers is probably the largest energy draw on wash day, well unless one is doing several loads in hot water with warm rinses suppose.

As for American top loaders historically not really going beyond 700rpms one has two thoughts. One is why should they? I mean until the "Energy Crisis" of the 1970's and other factors most American housewives either hung laundry outside to dry and or in the era of cheap energy didn't care how much gas or electric was used to dry nearly dripping wet laundry.

The other reason is one is certain bodily harm liability had something to do with things. I mean aside from Hoover and other twin tubs separate high speed extractors never really caught on with American homes, though they long could be found in commerical laundries. Though once common today it is rare to find a "Bock" or similar extractor in laundromats, well not at least around here. One inquired years ago as to why and was told it was due to liability issues. Apparently it is even difficult or impossible to get laundromat insurance if one has such extractors installed for customer use.

One of the only way top loading washing machines are going to survive in the United States is if they find clever ways to reduce energy consumption and that includes residual moisture.

http://https//docs.google.com/viewe...CgKCF9AJQuXl7-XSPCk4_c_NYMAYerXyOVqF7XUvwsgEm

 

[qualin]

I will admit that does kind of irk me.. How back in the late 1940's, GE, Frigidaire and so forth could have top loaders spinning at 1140 RPM without issues.

Somehow it's just a big deal these days.. You'd think with CAD/CAM and simulations, they could design a washer that spins at those speeds easily.

The only rationale I can think of as to why modern washers can't do it without exploding is because of cost cutting measures.

 

[launderess]

People Were Allot Less "Sue" Happy In The 1940's

Well at least in the United States. *LOL*

IIRC Frigidare dropped their 1100rpm spin speed as the tub grew larger for greater capacity. The early models with fast spins had more of a bowl shaped tub, sort of what one finds in commercial extractors.

F&P's washers spin at >1000 rpms, so it is not unheard of for modern top loaders to reach those speeds. However IIRC Consumer Reports rates F&P washers as more repair prone than others on the US market.

 

[logixx]

F&P's washers spin at >1000 rpms, so it is not unheard o

Looking at AJ Madison, there are a bunch of GE, Maytag, Whirlpool, Samsung... and LG washers that spin at 1100 rpm. GE and Samsung are even up to 5 cu ft.

 

[arbilab]

With "exploding washers" do we have two distinct problems? One is clearly drum integrity. We've seen the photos of the drum literally unravelling from the G force of high spin and shooting through the outer tub and cabinet.

Is the other suspension integrity? Whereby the machine damages itself as a result of an unbalanced load plus substandard (plastic) suspension mounts. And/or, no effective means of detecting imbalance.

Our 50s Westy would whoop and bang and dance across the floor if the contents glommed up on one side of the drum. It would unseat the upper-rear suspension elements which would have to be reseated. I can't count how many times I did that. But it NEVER destroyed itself or anything around it.

 

[qualin]

Well, when I've put my arm into these new HE machines, it seems to me like the tub moves around way too easily. I can bang the tub against the cabinet without trying too hard.

On machines which have more conventional suspensions, I have to work hard to do that.

So I know it must have something to do with the suspension. I would sooner that the washer hop around than slam the outer tub into the cabinet.

 

[limey]

Spin Speed And Water Extraction

It is not the spin speed alone that determines the centrifugal force that acts on the water to remove it from the laundry. The diameter of the drum is also a factor. The smaller the drum the faster it has to rotate to generate the same centrifugal force as a slower turning larger drum.

 

[launderess]

Well Be That As It May

Then why do laundromats have front loaders with such poor extraction?

I peeped the door labels inside of the SQ's at our local neither the small, large nor giant units spin >600pms, and yet wash emerges almost dripping compared to the Miele at home.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Then why do laundromats have front loaders with such poor ex

It's an overseas problem apparently!
Here all the laundromats I've seen have machines with spin sped of 850-1600 rpm

(circa 350G, depending on drum size!)

What matters the most is gas and electricity use for drying, you buy 15 minutes per €, but with high spin speed they can tweak the temperature to a lower setting and have less energy used for much more profit!

Only old hard mount machines or gigantic sized ones have slow spin speed of 500 or so rpm

 

[limey]

Spin Speed and Water Extraction

Launderess,

What is the diameter of the drums in the machines at your 'local' and what is the diameter of drum in your Miele at home? The other factor is what are the actual rotational speeds, not what is printed on the labels?
The relationship between the product of speed (rev/min, or rpm) and drum diameter is not direct, i.e. without going into the physics/mechanics of the situation the centrifugal force varies as the square of the angular velocity, meaning that leaving the diameter the same doubling the speed will quadruple the centrifugal force.
For the purists I have assumed that the centrifugal force acts directly opposite to the centripetal force as most folks can understand that.
Now take a drum 20 inches in diameter rotating at 500 rev/min we get a centrifugal force of 20 times 250,000 of whatever units we are working in, now up the speed to 600 rev/min and we get 20 times 360,000 units. That is an increase of 44% in the centrifugal force for 20% increase in speed.

http://phun.physics.virginia.edu/topics/centrifugal.html

 

[launderess]

Will Peep At Model Number and RPM Next Time

One goes pass our local laundromat. SQ's website has their current hard mount front loaders but know the local's are a bit older.

 

[powrbruh]

I Have To Share This

LG customer service representative was supposed to place a "defective return" order for my washer on 3/11/13. I was told by the rep. that I would be contacted in 3 to 5 business days. I called today (the 5th business day) to see what was going on with my case. I was told that my washer was out of warranty and there was nothing LG could do. I saw red. I demanded that I have the number to headquarters. All of sudden after being on hold for 5 mins, the rep came back and explained to me that the defective return order was never filed on 3/11/13. He assured me that he would put the order in today and I would be contacted in 3 to 5 business days. I have had enough.

I found the address and telephone number to headquarters. I called and asked who the president of LG Electronics Of North America was and his email. I wrote him a lengthy email detailing all the calls and experiences I have had since this recall work was done. I asked him to take back my set and refund my money. If I do not get any satisfaction from him, I will take further steps to rectify this matter. This is ridiculous.

 

[dj-gabriele]

Excellent, please keep us informed!

 

[washer111]

!

'Bout bloody time somebody got onto LG and gave them a kick in the backside! (Please excuse my language). Good to see that you are going to pursue this issue to the bitter/sweet end. Its about time customers started nudging the manufacturers, if they are gonna build cheap, they might as well warn you their machines are piles of sheet, or just build 'em better! 

 

Thanks for posting, and please do keep us updated on this matter. It'll be interesting to see if LG cares enough to help you, being "scared" of any lawsuit threats, them doing it to stop you annoying the President of LG or them not do anything, because they aren't frightened of "Just one person" (But who knows if you are a billionaire and can afford big, massive lawsuits? They don't, for sure. Use that to your advantage!).

 

Thanks again, and I wish you the best of luck in regards to this matter!

 

[powrbruh]

Good News!!!!

After emailing LG's CEO Wayne Park, I received a call from LG offering me an offer to buyback my washer for the price I paid. I accepted. I feel awesome. I sent him an email thanking him for his assistance. The only downfall is I have to sell my dryer because I must have a matching set.

I saw the LG mega-capacity frontload set at Sears for $1250 each with an additional 20% off because I am purchasing four or more appliances. That would mean I would get the set for about $2000. Great deal. I cannot decide between the Speed Queen frontload set and the LG set. LG has a bigger capacity and faster spin speed (1300rpms). However, I cannot get the washer to use a little more water due to my skin sensitivity. The Speed Queen will last forever, but the capacity is smaller and the spinning rpms is only 1000rpms; however, I can get it to use a little more water for better rinsing. Decisions. Decisions.

 

[logixx]

How many extra rinses can the 8000 do? I have played with some of the Kenmores (by LG) and each press of the Extra Rinse button would add another rinse - five rinses in total. The Speed Queen can have its water level adjusted and is durable for sure. Some people have commented that its pulse spins don't remove much of the sudsy water between the rinses, though. Hm...

 

[frigilux]

I steered friends with four kids toward the new mega LG pair (model WM8000 for the washer) and they love it--and the LG dealer loves me for selling a TOL set off the showroom floor for him.  I was concerned about vibration issues, as they're installed just off the kitchen in a first-floor laundry room, but when I was there a few days ago to watch it in action (a maximum-capacity load of various denims) there wasn't a vibration to be felt (no pedestals). They both felt the increased cycle time was offset by the cavernous capacity.  Let me tell you, those machines are huge inside and out.  5.1 cu. ft. drum in the washer; 9.0 in the dryer.

 

They are not, however, "washer-heads", nor do they like doing laundry (hence the laser-focused desire for huge capacity).  Nearly everything will get washed on the Normal cycle in warm water.  I did convince them to use Tide Vivid HE---although I couldn't coax them to use the higher-rated powdered version---instead of whatever is on sale, so they are happy with the cleaning.  I told them about the Turbo-Wash setting, which sprays water on the load and shortens the cycle length, but I'm sure they'll never use it because it would mean pressing another button, LOL.  They did use the Allergy cycle for bed linens, and the Sanitize cycle for a load of whites, so maybe there's hope.  They're thrilled to be able to wash all the comforters and bedspreads at home.  Unlike many, these are folks who will definitely fill the washer to maximum capacity with nearly every load.  We'll see how durable it is under those conditions.  And I stressed the importance of always, always, always leaving both the washer door and detergent drawer open a few inches to prevent mold/mildew.

 

Their prior pair was a 15-year old Whirlpool DD set they received as a wedding gift.  I warned them going into the purchase not to expect the same lifespan from the LGs.  CR reports great reliability for recent LG washers.  Let's hope they're still speaking to me in five years!

[this post was last edited: 3/26/2013-06:39]

 

[powrbruh]

Thanks For The Information

Logixx,

I am concerned about the pulse spin not getting the sudsy water out of my clothes too. I've read that with the increased water levels, the clothes are rinsed very well afterwards. I have skin sensitivity to detergents. I used the Tide Free and Clear, but I don't feel it cleans as well as the regular Tide. That's why rinsing is very important to me.

Frigilux,

My main concern is buying a set and in 5 to 6 years it breaks. I do not want to keep buying new machines. I have purchased at least 10 sets within the last 27 years. Some were returned because I didn't like the performance. I fell in love with my LG topload set. No complaints at all until the recall work was done. Now I just want a set that will wash, rinse, and dry well as well as last for a long time. These machines are getting more and more expensive while being made to be junked in a few years. I think the Speed Queens will be my best bet.

 

[pierreandreply4]

powrbruh

Have you tough about buying a vintage washer dryer set that can last to 50 years or more like for exemple a belt drive inglis whirlpool washer like this?

 

[frigilux]

powrbruh: Almost identically, I've purchased 9 washers (but only 7 dryers) in the past 26 years! None of mine have been returned, I just get antsy for a new machine every few years. I've never worn one out, so I have no idea what their useable lifespan would have been. I usually pass the used machines onto someone who needs a washer or washer/dryer pair. So, as odd as it sounds, I never make a purchase with the machine's longevity in mind. You're right to purchase the Speed Queen pair if you're in it for the long haul.

I'm surprised the LG doesn't have some sort of "Water Plus" feature---I know their top-loaders, do; although I understand you can only trigger it after the machine has sensed, filled and begins agitation, which would be annoying. It's not something you can set at the beginning of the cycle, as I can with my Frigidaire front-loader.

I've seen the Speed Queens at my local LG/Whirlpool/SQ dealer and they definitely look brawnier than other washers. If SQ's provided more cycle options---like lengthening the wash time for my super-stained loads of kitchen whites---and an internal heater / sanitize feature, I'd consider getting a pair, myself!

I did point out the SQ front-loaders to my friends, and talked about their commercial-build quality, but they saw the capacity of the LG 8000's and that was that, LOL! I have to say I was impressed with how quiet the LG was spinning that huge load of denims, and they really like the fact that the dryer finishes well before the washer. They can fold and put away a load before the next one is ready for the dryer. No more backed-up loads of wet wash waiting for the dryer.