Dubbed down or dumbed down hot water wash

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retro-man

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I see constantly people complaining about this feature on new top load washers. How does this work. Is there a seperate mixing valve, a temp sensor in the flow, in the outside tub? I have not seen anyones explanation on how this works, nor have I seen any info on how to disable this, and get truly tap hot water into the wash. There must be a way to disconnect something or bypass. The reason I am bringing this up is I have one machine a Frigidare unit washer on bottom and dryer is connected on top that "had" this feature but stopped working about 5 months ago. I only get hot water on the hot settings now. So something stopped working along the way. If this washer can "fix" itself we should as a group here find what causes the mixing and "fix" it to our ways of doing laundry. I also have a maytag centennial top loader that I would like to "fix" since its not doing itself. Would be interested to hear from all the great talent on here about this.
Jon
 
You Could:

What I've mentioned before is that you could perhaps install a tempering valve to the cold supply, to bring it up to 100º or more (for example). That way, when the washer goes to add cold water (or tries to, hehe), it will only mildly affect the hot temperature. At least thats my theory. I'm not sure whether the smarter crop of washers would throw error codes and what-not. 

 

I think the F&P QuickSmart washer (BOL model) does not use ATC, as the website indicates it. The user guide "warns" the operator that the machine will use water as hot as the water in the tap. So buy this machine for no ATC... Lol
 
it varies by machine, some are as complicated by computer control, which you CAN NOT override....

others simple use of an in-hose sensor, that can be removed....others cannot

and some just use a restrictor in the valve....some "pop' out, others you may have to drill, and some you can't change at all.....

I have a Frigidaire Fler, when I first got it, the temp regulation worked, then I would only get HOT when HOT was selected, WARM and COLD gave all COLD water....they switched out the water valves, the tempering unit is no longer there, and the sensor plug is pushed into a blank space...since then it has been true water temps as available from my taps
 
it's funny...we're going in the other direction.....when ATC first came out, it was to regulate WARM and COLD washes so that detergents were more effective than water that was too WARM/COLD.....

now were going into ENERGY efficent...and dubbing down the WARM temps into the coldest wash possible....the problem is its forced on us, rather than let us choose according to our load type, cooler temps can be used for certain lightly soiled loads, and there are times you need a true HOT wash...

and we have all seen the effects of water that was too COLD.....or just at Freezing...for both cleaning and the damage to machines...

COLD can be used, but not for every load, best left for rinsing!

NO ONE is washing Construction or a Mechanics clothes in COLD water and getting them clean.....I have tried.....not happenning!
 
I am horrified by the dumbed-down, ridiculously low water temps on some new washers and dishwashers.

A review on a middle-of-the-line Frigidaire front-loader listed the "hottest water setting" on the Normal cycle to be 80 degrees. That's for the hottest setting! 80 degrees is cool---not even warm---in my book. I would never, ever recommend purchasing a washer that has no internal water heater. The well-documented 85-115 degree maximum water temp on my Immersion Care top-loader is a deal-breaker for me. I filled the machine manually with hot water (to the low water level for a smallish load of whites) and it actually cleaned very well on the default 58-minute Normal cycle. However, it sensed something was not right and didn't do the brief spins during the wash period---something that is crucial for both forcing sudsy water through the fabric, and to reposition the load for even cleaning when the lowest water level is used.

The new dishwashers from both LG and KitchenAid have default main wash temps of around 105 degrees. Using the "temp boost" option raises it to 120 degrees. These dishwashers heat the final rinse water to between 140-160, depending on the cycle. While KitchenAids' cleaning scores don't seem to have taken a hit, the new LG dishwashers are scoring significantly lower at Consumer Reports.

It's madness is what it is. I want appliances to be energy and water-efficient, but this is beyond ridiculous.[this post was last edited: 4/2/2013-16:03]
 
On my bro's 2010 WP DD, I can easily get around the ATC for hot. I put an additional hose connector on the cold line with a valve. I just close it when it fills for the wash, the only downside is that I have to stay there while it fills so I can reopen it afterwards.

And if I leave it open, HOT basically give is the same temp for WARM on the 1990 WP DD, so, overall, it's not the best, but it is workable.
 
When I keep reading threads like this I wonder where will something as simplistic as doing a load of laundry will end (?) between laundry machines so bad with low water usage and water temperatures coupled with detergent "improvements" will we be back to where it all started, yes I dare say it, the scrubbing board??
 
It is sad indeed, I only wash darks in the new Admiral. Warm is the "new" hot. Now my old LAT TAG creates a sauna when our lower level laundry room is cool.
 
Cold Wash, Hot Wash

Its been discussed before, but using cold water increases the likelihood of buildup (Mineral, detergent, softener) in the machine. You also get lower cleaning power and a less hygienic wash. Enzymes work best around 30-50ºC (86º-130º), and if you don't sort your laundry and wash in cold water, you are "distributing" E-Coli and other nasties from your underwear and socks. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in wearing clothes that have all been washed in skid-mark water, let alone it being cold. Thats why I do my own laundry in this house. 
 
Just my 2 1/2 cents here.........

 

 

Granted this may not (probably won't) work on the all computer controlled, upper end(?) models, but it may be worth a shot.

 

While I could be completey wrong here, this is how I think it works.   The size of the opening inside the inlet valve is smaller on the hot side then the cold.   This reduces the hot flow down to 50 or 60% of what it should be.   The cold side is "wide open" allowing cold water to flow at a higher rate then the hot.   I'm sure you get it.

 

So on to my thought.   On machines which only have the restricted inlet valve, reverse the hose connections AND the electrical connections at the inlet valve solenoids.   This way you will obviously change the flow rates for hot and cold, getting a warmer / hotter wash.

 

On top loading WP built machines, I've noticed they alternate between warm and hot or cold and hot to get the desired temp (the damned ATC at work, obviously).

 

Kevin 
 
well what will you do if future washers do not have water he

What will you do if future washers do not have water heaters hot water temp or warm water temp options and are cold water wash only has it may happen? me i wash in cold water and i have no such buildup or problems and my clothes comes out nice and clean.
 
Where my bro used to live, the house has one of the Maytag Peformas. The ATC Warm for the wash was actually good. It started by having just the hot water open only and then opened the cold water once it got hot enough and both valves then STAY open for the remainder of the fill.
 
Dry Cleaners

I'll go there instead. Or connect my washer to a hot only or tempered supply. Or, ill get a vintage washer
 
RevinKevin, on some models not so much. I agree about the restrictor on the "hot" side. The ATC still adjusts the temp I have cold, cool, warm and hot. Still cold ground water here so read ice water, cool water, luke warm and barely warm. I also discoverd that washing on normal and "low" water level the splashing is so excessive it leaked a little on the floor. alr
 
Build up

As for this, F&P recommend washing in warm or hot every fourth wash to stop scrud or other buildup. This suggests long term cd water is bad. Another user posted a pic of what 20 years of it does to washers. They were Australian, and we get the cold water bashing from the authorities all the time here.....

http://as
 
I think we are going to have to agree to differ

on this subject as it goes round and round and its down to each individual I personally could not consider washing my whites in anything less than 60c ok so a few Tshirts have shrunk but no more than they would when dried in a dryer that gets up to extreme high temps. So my argument is I have read the article that Pierre put and I am still not convinced that saving 60$ a year is worth the hassle if I really want to save money I stop using the dryer.... Simples

Austin
 
people believe a lot of what they read or hear on the TV....is it informative, maybe....there can be a lot of variables as well, that is left out!....this is only info for a quick "you know I read somewhere!" conversation starter....and nothing more sorry to say....this can be used as a guide, it's not the Bible of washing clothes...chances are the person writing this article most likely doesn't even wash clothes, not to mention know how to operate a washer....

I know as much about washing machines as I do cars, but let's say I didn't....I would ask around, read articles, most important, I would talk to the mechanic who has more hands on experience than the salesman handing me a brochure!...just saying

we who are really into laundry, know better, and they claim to consult the "experts"...actually that would be US....has anyone here been interviewed by any magazine or TV show?....doubt it, because if they were, these articles would not be a top headline to catch everyones attention.....

no different than the HE machines on the market today....oh how they save the planet, and are so green, and conserve water, blah, blah, blah....hell, if you want to save water and make ANY machine HE, add an eyedropper of water to a machine....SEE how much water I saved?....is it effective?.....thats the real question everyone avoids!.....

this is not saying that COLD water can not be used to wash clothing....now, for every single load, I don't see it being effective outside of rinsing....ther are a few select loads where HOT should and only be used, theres no getting around that...if COLD is so effective, then why not only one valve on washing machines, no temp selections, just COLD for everything...

yes, I wash some things in COLD water, mainly black jeans, I want them to stay dark as long as possible....actually I only rinse them with a little Woolite and then dry them....but that's about it!

better yet...get rid of your water heater....who needs it, it just waste energy to heat water, that is claimed not to be needed.....in fact, turn yours off tonight, and take your morning shower with COLD water...if it cleans clothes so well, it should get the soils and body oils off of you in no time.....and take as long of a shower as you want....you'll never run out!....

actually to be green and conserve water......just take a 16 ounce bottle of water in the shower with you....that's all that's needed to wash and rinse yourself off with it!....hell, it's expected to wash a load of clothes in less!
 
A news program did a test on detergents and actually found cold water detergents to be highly ineffective. Cold power is rubbish.... Bio Zet is far better, made in Japan, so why not?

And in Australia, we have solar water heaters. Washing in hot becomes really stupid in this instance, since it is free. I'm still shivering about some laundry done last night at 40c on the express cycle. Not mine, but contained sweaty shirts, underwear etc... Clothes barely looked wet in there, let alone "washed".

Our Miele soaks in cold water, however, before proceeding with your wash, which is nice, when selected. I only wash stuff in cool or cold when the label says so. Our towels are down at 40c because of this..... Same for my darks.
 
"Green" eh? Know what that is? Algae, from not getting wash clean. If you're lucky. If not, it's something-o'coccus or something o'mildew.

At 80F, sebum (skin oil) is a waterproof wax. It's not a liquid that can be agitated and surfactanted away until 95F(*), its operating temperature. Now if *I* know that, one might wish that washer designers knew it too and didn't set 80F as a wash temp other than "cold" for woolens that nobody wears against their skin.

80F is cold tap temperature here from June to September. Fine for rinsing, useless for washing unless what you're washing wasn't dirty in the first place.

(*Except in one Canadian province where anything is possible.)
 
To Be Fair.

I grew up in a household that only had cold water plumbing to the washing machine, so that is what we used. We added bleach to white loads and our clothes were clean. Nobody got sick and nobody died from washing in cold water.

Malcolm
 
I agree with Malcom, I grew up with cold water washing the only things my mother used to put in hot or warm water were my fathers work clothes becasue he was an auto mechanic (and they got 2 rinses). Everything else got the cold water wash. Today I use cold water winter and summer. In the winter I set the Kenmore Water temp to cold-cold where it mixes the hot in to get to the temp, in the spring and summer straight cold water setting. Clothes come out clean(well they arent dirty to begin with when they go in the washer I am an office worker not a grave digger or mechanic.)
 
I've got nothing against washing in temp-controlled cold water; in fact I washed everything that way for 1-1/2 years when Tide Coldwater first appeared. Caveat: I use liquid chlorine bleach for whites. I hung clothes on the line during summer, so they weren't even sanitized by the heat of the dryer. Never got sick. I quit washing in temp-controlled cold because it became boring...if that makes any sense.

What I don't like is not being able to choose hot water at all. I fully understand defaulting cycles to cooler temps...but at least give me the option to use hot water when the load requires it. It chaps my ass to see a "HOT" water setting on the Immersion Care knowing it's a blatant lie. Having said that, I have to confess it has become my daily driver...for the time being. I've even been washing loads of kitchen whites in it on the Eternity cycle, LOL. I think I've used the front-loader once the past two or three weeks.[this post was last edited: 4/4/2013-16:57]
 
Meanwhile Euro washers heat wash water to 200F. And Euro electric costs more than ours. If I want to spend money heating wash water, a thousand-dollar washer should by gawd let me and not argue.

I just moved from an apartment with 30yo appliances to one with 15yo appliances and the contrast is downright disgusting. The 'new' stove won't turn the surface units red and the oven regulation is pathetic. It's scarcely insulated and you can bend the oven door with a slight push. The 'new' fridge won't hold standard size containers like gallon water jugs, the old one would. Same brand, Hotpoint (US). Same model, BOL apartment special. To get the old cold set at 5, the new has to be set to 8.

One thing is certain, the appliance industry abandoned any semblance of self respect some time back.
 

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