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RE: #58

“The whole purpose of government is to uphold and defend freedom and human rights. Not to take such away from people.”

I would agree with you 100% on this statement.

However, there is a great deal of difference between actual freedom and human rights and the regulation of how much water and electricity a washing machine can use!

The purpose for governmental regulation of appliances is to help save our natural resources and try to reverse Climate Change.

This has NOTHING to do with actual human rights and freedoms.

BTW, political statements are meant for the DL forum only.

Eddie
 
Every single time this topic or something similar comes up its always you two complaining. It's tiring and its the same stuff every time too. I wish that the sites team would come and moderate for once, this has gone too far time and time again. By and large those issues you claim happen to everyone are a result of lazy washing habits or misuse, and claiming efficiency is a scam despite decades of evidence to the contrary is amusing at best if not straight up disappointing. DO better. I hope to not see one of these pointless rants take over another thread.
 
Reply #55

People block you, too. You have repeatedly jumped down people’s throat for “lacking maturity”, meanwhile, that’s a lack of maturity in of and itself. Can’t claim to be the mature one when you don’t act like it. I guess when the fountain of youth runs out, you revert back to a 12 year old.

When one gets angry when someone tells them the truth, just more proof what kind of person they are, going by opinions with little to no continuity and not facts just to inflate one’s ego even more.

Go ahead, jump down my throat and make a fool of yourself, will screenshot your comments/remarks and post them publicly to YouTube in the community posts section.
 
With the political policies involved and from that first post, are we just overdue for a Brown Forum discussion on this?

There, although plenty of other pow-wows of activities of "other stuff" of general nature and for those of us Upgraded, maybe we need to have a thread such as this there...

That's a place to rant, use obscene language, and complain to all our heart's content about excess energy usage, crappy performance and the idea that you throw out a once-repairable but hopelessly broken machine in a matter of a few short years, adding more to economic woes and environmental concerns...

There: talk about worldly things and tell some dirty jokes, but please don't start these kinds of arguments amongst one another that are put-downs or express excessive dislike towards one another, yes, be gentlemen!

-- Dave
 
Reply #65

Many people out there feel the way you do, Jerome, but people continue to complain and be the enabler, changing absolutely nothing.

Oh well, I let one’s foolishness just feed me more wisdom and making me smarter.
 
You too need to get out in the real world

Chet and Jerome, you get on here just ranting and raving, but new dishwashers and new appliances don’t work because of government regulations and yet you both own new energy star dishwashers and you don’t seem to have any complaints with them.

I work on several dishwashers every week customers are not complaining in general. That new dishwashers aren’t working well and that their old dishwashers worked better that’s just not the reality. Look at all the examples on this site of people that are thrilled with their current dishwashers whether their Bosch KitchenAid GE even some Samsung and LG owners here that are very happy.

And you two don’t seem to even complain about your own modern dishwashers Lol

The number one complaint about the good old Hobart KitchenAid dishwashers from the 6070s 80s was they don’t clean well. This was the number one service call, things to go wrong with new dishwashers too that caused them not to clean well at times and they need repair.

There is no evidence that new appliances are lasting any less time than older ones. You can always find an example of one that didn’t last, but many of the appliances being sold today will be going strong in 30 years.

Chet I never said that I had a stinky tall tub dishwasher. The only dishwasher I ever complained about that I had in my home that got stinky was my KDSS 20, because the other dishwasher I had was a power clean I was used to putting things in so dirty that the food that would lay in the bottom of the KitchenAid would get stinky. It also had a much less effective drying system so it tended to be moist and stinky inside at times.

There is no right in this country to harm other people that’s why you’re not allowed to smoke an airplanes and grocery stores, strong majority of Americans want energy consumption reduced so that we have a fighting chance to survive a couple more generations so our kids and grandkids can enjoy this earth.

John L
 
Combo aren’t you in your 70s? 80s? Shouldn’t you be in a nursing home or at the senior center? I wasn’t asking if you believe it or not. You would have absolutely no idea, your just inserting your immediate opinion without doing any investigating which for your age is quite immature but that’s not the first time you’ve been called that here. Typical denier. Your not an investigative journalist who has the ability to speak to others in different professions that you wouldn’t outside of being one and you also don’t have people coming to report things to you that you won’t hear elsewhere your an applaince “tech” so stay in your lane you honestly have no idea and it’s ironic you call me a fool about that when your inserting your immediate uneducated opinion and as said for your age that’s really embarrassing and I know I’m really gonna strike that ego a bit. The ego you have on a washing machine website is so peculiar and cringeworthy, and imma just say it nobody really cares to hear what you have to say after the way you harass and demean other members, I can’t even give the number of how many people on here have called you out in the past year alone. This is why people have left this website, cause of toxic negative and rude people like yourself who think everything they say is the truth without a shadow of a doubt when it’s not and none of it has any basis or evidence to support it’s just your opinion. You think your god of automaticwasher.org and your inappropriate comments and rudeness to members here is astounding.

As for the appliance related BS you mentioned that was all complete nonsense. New Whirlpool top load washers receive some of the most backlash from current consumers, and it’s not a mystery as to why but you’re far too narrow minded to see the obvious high on that ego. Your mistaking negativity for someone talking about the truth and what consumers feel after purchasing a new whirlpool top load or dishwasher, the amount of electrical problems with Whirlpools new dishwashers from the last five years up until now is insurmountable. I’m not sure how much whirlpool is paying you to keep the truth away, but your remarks are very embarrassing for someone who apparently works on applainces daily. You couldn’t even figure out the problem with my whirlpool PC that I needed assistance with, I kept saying over and over again I suspect the nozzle cap is worn and not able to give pressure it once did 20 years ago and I was able to order a brand new old stock nozzle cap last week off eBay that came up and it just came in the mail Saturday. Can you guess what the result was? This top rack spray arm is blasting like new again. So in other words, you don’t always know what your talking about and there’s always room for improvement so kick that ego to the side and start being more respectful of others and maybe you’ll live a happier more productive life.

“but many of the appliances being sold today will be going strong in 30 years” that was your most laughable statement of this thread. So much for being an applaince expert 🤣 NOTHING made today lasts more than ten years John pull your head out of your ass already.
 
Jerome. Who are you trying to convince?
What is the point of all the ranting and raving?
Why do you not have a podcast or a YouTube channel if you’re the self-proclaimed laundry messiah?

And why is it so unacceptable to you that because you had a bad experience with ONE machine, but many others have good experiences with them, you deny their experience.
I won’t deny your experiences, but let’s be realistic. You’re using a lot of public machines that people abuse and don’t care about.
Others are using well cared for private machines.
 
<blockquote>
"Chet and Jerome, you get on here just ranting and raving, but new dishwashers and new appliances don’t work because of government regulations and yet you both own new energy star dishwashers and you don’t seem to have any complaints with them. "

 

</blockquote>
Oh, I've got complaints about my energy star appliances. Hence my passion. My less than 10 year old dishwasher's wheel pins are falling out and ending up burning up around the heating element. The dispenser fills with water to the point the pre-wash water gets sudsy. I can't stack things on top of one another as I would in my Power Clean. Backed on egg pans leave egg bits around the sump grates that otherwise get pulled into the PC sump. That means extra prep and pre-rinsing. Cycle times take two hours. 

 

My dryer lacks a real, realistic timed dry cycle where as my previous Kenmore 70-90 series dryers offered a full 90 minute timed dry or a long auto dry. No silly shortened sensor dry with wrinkle guard that you can't turn off.


 

The front burner on my Stove just went out. The membrane broke two years ago. My over the range microwave cooks and splatters food so evenly I was celebrating when the interlocks gave out finally having an excuse to buy a real microwave. Which you said would never cook evenly because of the lack of turn table which is so far away from my lived reality. Food comes out looking and tasting like food with the only difference being the just right temperature.   


 

 

The old school Speed Queen on the other hand has given me zero problems except an easy water valve change out. No off balance issues, no major failures, no error codes. Perfectly clean clothing washed in hot or warm water all done in 30 minutes. 


 

 

 

<blockquote>

"I work on several dishwashers every week customers are not complaining in general. That new dishwashers aren’t working well and that their old dishwashers worked better that’s just not the reality. Look at all the examples on this site of people that are thrilled with their current dishwashers whether their Bosch KitchenAid GE even some Samsung and LG owners here that are very happy."

 

 

</blockquote>
Only because customers are already pre-rinsing their dishes.

<blockquote>


"And you two don’t seem to even complain about your own modern dishwashers Lol"

 

</blockquote>
 

Because I'd rather have a Power Clean. 

<blockquote>
 



''The number one complaint about the good old Hobart KitchenAid dishwashers from the 6070s 80s was they don’t clean well. This was the number one service call, things to go wrong with new dishwashers too that caused them not to clean well at times and they need repair.''

 

</blockquote>
<span style="color: #000000;">Right, they had too short main wash and relatively uneven water distribution. Power Clean versions resolved this and other imperfections.
</span>

<blockquote>
 

 



"There is no evidence that new appliances are lasting any less time than older ones. You can always find an example of one that didn’t last, but many of the appliances being sold today will be going strong in 30 years."

 

</blockquote>
 

If you mean scientifically controlled and certified studies yes there aren't many that I know of. I'll give you that. The real world says otherwise, however.

 

<blockquote>


"Chet I never said that I had a stinky tall tub dishwasher. The only dishwasher I ever complained about that I had in my home that got stinky was my KDSS 20, because the other dishwasher I had was a power clean I was used to putting things in so dirty that the food that would lay in the bottom of the KitchenAid would get stinky. It also had a much less effective drying system so it tended to be moist and stinky inside at times."

 

 

</blockquote>
By 2011 all new TOL GEs were tall tubs. 2000 you installed a free TT Kitchen-Aid, a year latter you tried a tall tub GE. That puts us around 2001 assuming you installed the TT KA very early in the year 2000. Then came a standard tub GE. Assuming you kept it for only a few months, you used the KUDSS-20 for 10 years. So that puts as at minimum around mid 2011. Most probability with all said and done around 2013.     


 

Ok, lets assume by NEW you meant a new old stock standard tub dishwasher. Or a new MOL electronic model that could've past as TOL at first glance.  


 

 

bdc229d3568a3f12fa41b2e626e8c6196dc8dac9f19ec5bcb98a38483236f73b.png



 

That doesn't change the fact you directly admitted to being dissatisfied with two tall tub dishwashers. One where you explicitly stated "poor performance" and the other "...that is about all I can say good about it" 


 

 

d35a25544f451cc7400afc35ab48af8b5b8ed7dbd4a2f2f2bd61210bd209f6b1.png


 

 

 

Any reasonable person would at minimum assume that your tall tubs did a poor job of removing soil from dishes. Which you repeatedly stated was not an issue with tall tubs.

 

Given that <span data-huuid="4638182445549578813">GLD5600VBB was already being sold on the market in mid 2010 while the tall tub platform was working its way down the GE DW line, it is not a stretch to assume your NEW TOL GE dishwasher was a tall tub which you explicitly stated "it always smelled bad".  </span>

 

 

 

 

<blockquote>
There is no right in this country to harm other people that’s why you’re not allowed to smoke an airplanes and grocery stores, strong majority of Americans want energy consumption reduced so that we have a fighting chance to survive a couple more generations so our kids and grandkids can enjoy this earth.

John L

 

 

</blockquote>
It is not about how the energy is used, rather how said energy is produced. 

 

The US is based on a free, open market where people can choose what they buy. 


[this post was last edited: 2/24/2025-21:24]
 
modern dishwashers

Even if I didn't have a problem with my modern dishwasher, that doesn't negate the fact they don't last. I wish it had a real heat dry but I overcome that by using dry assist and rinse aid. I would like to see phosphates return to detergents! No wonder why I have to buy the highest end of detergent for laundry and automatic dishwashing!
 
Longevity

That is probably the biggest issue for myself. In 1985 you could buy a Pot-scrubber that would last 40 years and have a very low probability of a warranty call. 

 

Today, not so much. Water restrictions force complexity that increases the probability of failure, make repair more difficult or down right impractical, and electronics which have a finite life expectancy. An analog mechanism can last 100 years and does not age when not in use. An electrolytic capacitor on the other hand ages by just being plugged in and lasts about 30 years on the optimistic end. 

 

 

Replacing an appliance every 5-10 years produces more waste long term. 
 
Yes, simply put what Chetlatham just explained--and to me a good end of story...

 

Appliances should not be just thrown out, that will create much more waste & toxic our environment much more then hanging onto and investing much more life in, and maybe somehow reinventing its own energy efficiency, if not at least the efficiency of more years of it working properly...!

 

 

 

-- Dave
 
Reply number 74 and on and on

Wow, what a waste of time Chet I doubt anyone, including myself even read all that nonsense, this is why you can’t do anything in life because you’re worried about s..t instead of actually going out and helping people by getting a job you could actually buy a power clean dishwasher. If you didn’t have to rely on your parents all the time.

90s GE dishwasher lasting 40 years. That’s not very likely and you know it. No dishwasher has ever lasted 40 years consistently. If it was used every day the closest thing that ever came to lasting that long were the old Hobart built KitchenAid.

Both you and Jerome just make up stuff at Will without any proof to back it up, you’re the two most blocked people on the site.

John L
 
Naw. I’ll second what John is saying. I know I might be considered just a kid here, but I was a little kid in the late 80s. I remember relatives and friends having 70s and 80s appliances repaired ALL THE TIME! And then the grandparents would say “they don’t make em like they used to!”
And they’re referring to PowerCleans and and BD Whirlpools.
I will concede the older appliances were a bit easier to fix. But they were also like 5x more expensive so I think people were more willing to repair. But that’s the point. That ‘85 GE lasted 40yrs due to periodic repairs and maintenance.
My parents had our Newton Maytag 511 repaired probably a dozen times in my life.
But after a while it gets to be not worth it.

Yeah I’m driving two old KitchenAid DWs but they both needed rebuilding when I got them.

Heck, maybe we need tariffs and should go back to $3000 washers and dishwashers.
Repairs will be worth it again. Less throw away.
Start saving up!
 
Appliances were more expensive because they had more raw material in them. If you take the cost of a $1,500 TC Speed Queen which has comparable build quality to a vintage washer and adjust for the cost of inflation it would be $508 in 1985. $508 is about what an average 2 speed 5 cycle extra large capacity washer would cost in 1985. I say about because yes you will find + or - 50 dollar deviations.

 

 

As raw material prices have gone up manufacturers have gradually cheapened machines to keep sale prices from rising as fast as inflation.

 

 

I don't deny your lived experience or what you witnessed. However if you take a look at rental properties and condos where GE appliances were installed by the hundreds of thousands if not millions across the US and Canada it is very much the norm for 80s GE appliances to last 30 years with minimal repairs. There are still basic Potscrubbers from 1983-1989 going to this day. 80s washers,  dryers and stoves. Half the time they are replaced not because they are broken, rather outdated in the eyes of today's tenants. Not to mention all the OPL and laundromat machines that have gone 15-20 years with daily use.

 

 

I don't consider you as a little kid. You were able to articulate a constructive on topic reply without resorting to personal attacks, name calling or unfounded rumors.
 
No. Nope. Nada. Nein. Nyet. Non.
I’ve lived in a dozen apartments over the years. None of them had any 80s GEs. They were all early 90s at the latest.
And yes many of my apartments were old.

I stand corrected. I toured one apartment that has late 80s WP pre- power clean dishwasher.
But that was the demo unit. No other actual units had 80s machines.
 
It depends on when they were renovated, and what was installed at the time of build. If the Apartments were built any time before 1983/1984, ~50/50 chance they would've had a Plastisol dishwashers in them. Given that plastisol tubs rust in about 10 years, by the late 80s/early 90s the replacements would've been commencing. 

 

In fact GE knew very well they had some of the shortest lasting dishwashers in the 1970s. Around that time GE became serious and began planning, engineering and finally gradually phasing their Permatuff line which was completely re-engineered from the ground up. Their serious attempt resulted in some of the longest lasting dishwashers ever made and longevity went up in general across their entire appliance lineup. 

 

By the time the early 90s came around, GE began to slowly reverse their efforts and what came in the late 90s/early 2000s set the stage for them selling to Haier.    
 
Redesigned GE dishwashers

Reply number 83 as usual total BS.

G E didn’t do a total redesign of their dishwashers until about 2011 when everything changed. The last major redesign was 1967 when they went to that awful pump.

The GE dishwashers in the 90s were quite good except for the pump and lack luster performance. Their early tall tub models were actually quite reliable. They just weren’t great performers, but they were well built and they got away from the awful drain valve system in the cheaper models.

The 1980s plastic tub dishwasher used a lot of the same parts as the plastisol ones most of all they use that awful motor and drain valve assembly pump by far the worst pump in any dishwasher that was mass produced in the US ever, the only good thing about that pump is we make a lot of money replacing them I’ve replaced two in the last two weeks.

John L
 
The handful of parts that are physically interchangeable between plastisol and permatuff minus the water valve, door latch, upper rack guide, and screws; had engineering, design or build modifications done to them. Such as the pump bodies being re-shaped to have less carry over water, the pop-up tower water distribution slots changed, number of wash arm holes consolidated, drain solenoid encapsulation and drain bracket design changed, lower rack wheels, ect. Beyond these changes the rest was a totally new design.

 

Just about every single part was re-examined, reconsidered, recalculated, re-tested and modified as needed to fulfill GE's new goals. Some engineering changes were relatively minor like the spray arm hub, while others were a completely new design like the permatuff tub and door, detergent cams, detergent cups, vent system, heater, timer, sump boot, sump grates, fascia molding, door hinges, motor mount, float, wire harness, cycle sequence, and the list goes on. 

 

Just because a handful of parts are interchangeable between permatuff and plastisol, doesn't mean they have not been re-engineered in some way. In fact the same pump and motor assembly between 1967 and 2007 has probably endured at least four dozen engineering revisions everywhere from the motor bearings to the size of the drain port to the macerator to the seals to the motor's protector to the drain flapper, ect despite the fact said pumps are physically interchangeable between so many models.  

 

 

GE dishwashers peaked between 1983 and 1991. After that the decline began. 
 
to chetlaham

Now we only have tall tub GE dishwashers. My dad has one in his house in Houston which is a builder grade GE. While it does get the dishes coean, it feels like a cheap toy compared to their previous models. Their laundry line is no better. If it was better, they would've had a filter-flo, minibasket, a full size stainless steel wash basket, and a stainless steel outer tub all while being "energy efficient". You need water to clean and filter out lint. Many consumers including myself or anybody who has simply used a filter-flo alone wants one back. For the umpteenth time! I want my laundry and dishes done right the first time! What do these people not understand? Do they think we're stupid?
 
energy star Kenmore/Bosch

There's nothing wrong with my energy star Kenmore/Bosch. I just wish the spray was constantly at full pressure. That's why I investigate everything, even open the door during a cycle sometimes just so I'm sure the spray arms are traveling even at low pressure. I even went as far as taking both arms off the racks and bottom so I'm sure water is being forced through at all speeds and pressure levels. That's why I have a pet peeve about these new dishwashers. I want water to shoot everywhere. It should be shooting everywhere to insure that no nook or cranny is missed and every single dish is hit with jets of water. I'm sure chetlaham would agree.
 

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