EPA Reversals

[Chetlaham]

There are two types of expensive: One that buys material durability, the other that buys features and cycles. People mistakenly believe features and cycles that they'll never use are signs of progress. Its a marketing ploy to get people to hand over money while getting nothing practical in return.   

 

 

 

[combo52]

Expensive high-end appliances

Have always been more troublesome, just like if you bought a 1966 Cadillac and compared it to a 1966 Plymouth valiant. The Cadillac was gonna have a lot more breakdowns and going to cost a lot more to keep on the road.

I remember one of our customers that bought a Levet home in 1966. It came with all middle of the line general electric appliances. She said nearly 10 years of living there she only had three service calls between all the appliances. Her husband did very well and they built a custom home in around 1976 they put top-of-the-line Maytag washer and dryer KitchenAid dishwasher, KitchenAid trash, compactor, subzero refrigerator and every one of them needed service in the first year. The worst was the halo of heat dryer that literally caught fire and we had to ship it back to May tag.

People often are willing to pay more for quality products. Look at the great success. Speed Queen is having with washers and dryers for example.

The real problem on this thread Chet and Jerome is that neither one of you have 1 ounce of credibility because you’ve chosen to remain completely anonymous. Neither one of you have anything to do with the appliance industry or anything related to it apparently so your opinions really don’t count for much.

I don’t block anybody, but I seldom read your rants. They just don’t make any sense and they change from day-to-day. I still remember all that BS about that $79 Chinese microwave being the best thing ever made in microwave ovens, lol.

John L

 

[Chetlaham]

John- you, me and Jerome both know what you're really trying to accomplish when you use anonymous and credibility in the same sentence.  

 

 

I am a United States Citizen, a consumer and a user of home appliances. I am very much entitled to my lived experience.

 

 

John is wrong again in front of the blocked contingent- my Microwave was made Thailand, not China.

 

 

 

 

 

If you read the reviews there are many using strong language in favor of the even cooking, performance and reasonable build quality for the listed price. Customers, including myself, truly feel like they got a bang for the buck.      

 

 https://shorturl.at/NVIQn

 

 

https://shorturl.at/Olaxu

 

 <span style="font-size: 14pt;">Ie, the "Microwave of the Gods"</span>

<span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span>

 

 

 

 <span style="font-size: 14pt;">Better than any turntable, can defrost on full power</span>:

 

 

 

 

If you want to make an account and tell over 110 users that they've wrong in feeling so elated, go right ahead.

 

 

However, if anything, this shows that you believe reasonable performance can not come at a reasonable price. Or tolerate others being happy.

 

[this post was last edited: 2/27/2025-21:45]

 

[maytag85]

The more complex something is, the higher probability of things breaking down, just how it goes. If you want something to be reliable, got to keep it as basic as much as possible.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

chetlaham and stickball

My sentiments exactly. Consumers are waking up, but it's not enough.

 

[maytag85]

“Consumers are waking up, but it’s not enough”

I’ve woken up a long, long time ago, so have others on the site who have been stashing away vintage machines are appliances for good while now.

 

[me]

The thing about appliances like a front load washing machines, is they are a bit of a black box, well typically they're white, but the consumer shopping for one really doesn't know what they are getting for their money, what lies beneath the case. You can compare superficial stuff like max spin speed and the look and feel of the controls and the programme options, and compare the wash rating and energy usage rating on the energy labels and the length of the warranty, but is the more expensive machine actually built to last longer, or is the manufacturer just charging a premium for their brand name and a few gimmicky features.

I suspect if consumers saw the components inside, they'd walk away from some of the cheapest models and spend a little more.

When I chose my current machine, I couldn't even find out if it didn't have a sealed tub, so I didn't know if I'd be able to change the bearings when they failed, or if it would require an expensive new tub assembly and probably not be worth repairing. And as I've never had the bearings in a washing machine last more than about 10 years, not even a premium machine, it resulted in me buying a slightly cheaper, lower spec model than I might have done.

 

[gelaundry4ever]

brand

I think the premium brand is charging more.[this post was last edited: 3/16/2025-21:27]

 

[wayupnorth]

Ya, right, Premium Brand has always cost more, what else is new.

 

[givemehotwater]

Reading the replies here, I can physically feel myself developing frown lines. I honestly can't believe how many people will cut off their nose to spite their face—or in this case, advocate for literal garbage—just because the person who proposed it doesn’t align with their political views.

That’s a discussion for another time. I refuse to associate myself with any political party; I’ve always been an independent. But I can’t believe how many people have turned their entire lives into political statements. Does anyone have hobbies anymore? Interests beyond politics? I remember when it was considered impolite to discuss politics, and people could simply agree to disagree. What happened?

Don’t even answer that — I don’t want to hear it.

Here’s the bottom line: Have any of you actually used a newer front-loader? They are absolutely terrible at rinsing out soap. Unless someone pre-soaks their clothes to trick the machine into using more water, the clothes are left saturated with detergent unless only a few teaspoons of soap are used—which simply isn’t enough to properly clean and suspend soil.

I've personally used front-loaders made between 2019 and 2023 from LG, GE/Haier, Bosch, Miele, and Maytag, and none of them rinsed effectively. The only one that had a fighting chance was, oddly enough, the GE—but only when using the "Bulky" cycle.

To make matters worse, I recently found out that Whirlpool has removed water level selectors from their conventional top-load machines, and their "deep fill" option only fills the drum halfway. What’s even the point of that? Outside of a few states with water shortages—where consumers already pay sky-high prices for water—most people have plenty of it.

I live in the Tri-State Area of the East Coast, and there’s zero concern about water running out. These restrictions are not only unnecessary but harmful to human health if they leave clothes full of detergent. And from what I’ve seen, these so-called efficient machines don’t clean mud or garden soil nearly as well as those that use just a few more gallons of water per cycle.

Honestly, most of the comments in this thread seem politically motivated. Almost no one is actually discussing the issue at hand—besides a few posts. And that, to me, is incredibly sad. We should be able to have a real conversation about the subpar appliances being sold today.

 

[johnb300m]

If your front loader is not rinsing well, then you’re using too much soap.

Politically, I try to refrain from it on forums like this. Usually is no point. You won’t convince anyone online.

But I draw the line when peoples’ political “opinions” or political actions put into jeopardy my life and family, which seems more frequent these days.

 

[combo52]

Rinsing in modern high-efficiency washers

I did seven loads of laundry yesterday three in my KitchenAid proline front load washer, two in my three year-old Speed Queen front load washer and two in my 20 year-old Speed Queen front load washer which uses more water than the two others.

The two newer ones do a better job Although the old speed Queen does fine. It just doesn’t clean as well because of the shorter wash cycle.

I can’t imagine what you’re doing wrong I dose pretty heavily with detergent. I use regular scented detergent I put the full measure of liquid chlorine bleach in the dispenser when I’m washing, light colored towels, bedding sheets, etc. and when the clothing comes out of the machine, I can’t smell the detergent or the bleach and I certainly don’t have any allergies to detergent. Most people don’t anyway.

This is not the place to discuss politics, but politics is one of the oldest and most noble of pursuits and I’d love discussing politics I live in breathe politics, I have no use for useless things like professional sports, which makes absolutely no difference in anybody’s life except the athletes I suppose, lol

I live in Maryland and while we are not threatened with running out of water except during summer periods, when we have a drought almost every year, the cost of water here is fairly high. The cost of treating it is high and I do like the idea that the Chesapeake Bay is getting better and not worse. I don’t know how you avoid those real concerns but water is not unlimited anywhere on the Earth. there are always costs.

Thanks for your thoughts, John L

 

[ea56]

There’s absolutely nothing “political” about recognizing Climate Change and the reality of the Earths limited natural resources. But there certainly seems to be one side of the political spectrum that wants to make this political.

Just because some folks feel that it’s their God given right to destroy the Earth and waste natural resources because that’s what makes them feel better about life doesn’t make it right.

Wasting the Earths natural resources is no different than wasting anything else. It’s WRONG!

Eddie

 

[Ultramatic]

 

 

And now a musical interlude...

 

 

[givemehotwater]

Eddie, since you’re in California, I completely understand your concerns about water usage. Your state has faced severe shortages (or at least it did, from what I recall), and water isn’t as abundant in your area.

I truly sympathize with your concerns about water conservation, but calling it a matter of “resources” feels like a stretch. These machines aren’t consuming oil or some scarce, harmful material—they’re just using water.

For most people on the East Coast—in fact, probably everyone—water is plentiful. Whether I use a high-efficiency (HE) machine or a conventional top-loader isn’t going to make any meaningful environmental impact. In fact, any extra water use might be offset by lower electricity consumption.

 

[givemehotwater]

John & John, I’m being completely honest with both of you—I am not overdosing on detergent, nor am I trying to recreate a Brady Bunch soap suds disaster. I’ve been telling friends and others to use minimal amounts of detergent—literally between 1.5 to 2 tablespoons—and rinsing is still an issue.

NYC, in particular, has extremely soft water, often around 1 GPG or less. Even with a double rinse, these machines still leave small amounts of soap suds on the rubber gasket at the end of the cycle.

I shudder to think about the people who don’t even notice this—especially those using laundry pods.

So what’s the solution? Besides telling people to use just two teaspoons of detergent, are we really expected to sit around running five extra rinse and spin cycles manually?

This isn’t user error. These machines are objectively terrible at rinsing out all detergents like Persil, All, and Tide.

 

[qsd-dan]

"Eddie, since you’re in California, I completely understand your concerns about water usage. Your state has faced severe shortages (or at least it did, from what I recall), and water isn’t as abundant in your area."

California doesn't have a water shortage problem most of the time, they have a political problem. Annually flushing trillions of gallons of fresh water into the ocean instead of filling up reservoirs IS the problem. Reservoirs are also purposely over released, causing shortages.

It reminds me of Enron shutting off powerplants to price gouge 25 years ago but the water problem has been going on for at least 40 years.

 

[qsd-dan]

I'm strictly a top load user but if you're still having issues rinsing out detergent, keep scaling back until it's not a problem.

 

[whirlpool862]

I’m strictly a top load user, I don’t like front loaders and I never have. The seals are prone to getting stinky and they tend to have more problems.

I have a Whirlpool WTW4900BW0 top load high efficiency washer, and a matching WED4850BW0 electro dryer. Washer has a bad bearing but the dryer works great and has no issues. Both otherwise work fine, washer is just really loud on the spin cycle.

As for the light bulbs part, LEDs are better than incandescents, they last longer and are better for the environment.I NEVER liked the CFL bulbs, tho. I’ve changed some failed LED bulbs but they are sure more reliable than incandescent.

The LG fridges seem to be prone to having bad compressors, not liking them, I have a 2015 Frigidaire top freezer that still works great, nothing fancy about it.

My brother has a 2007 Whirlpool side-by-side that also works great, I think his washer is an LG, but it still works.

My sister has a new GE washer that she bought to replace an old GE HydroWave that failed.

 

[johnb300m]

Givemehotwater

Maybe you’re still using too much.
Tide and Persil are horrible rinsers.
I had issues with them too in my old Maytag front load, and I had soft water too.
What did I do? I used no more than a tablespoon for an average medium load.
For very dirty and full loads, I used 2tbsp max. And did extra rinse. That way was ok.

Now I have an Electrolux front load, and I’ve been going back and forth between Grove and Tide Pure Clean.
My water is moderately hard at 9-12gpg.
Tonight I did a Normal load of 2 jeans and 4 flannels.
This is how much soap I used.
About 10mls.
All clean! No rinsing issues.