Finally the full wash video of the new 2018 Speed Queen washer

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appear to be nostalgic for the Shredmore. Me, I'd love to have that beating-the-crap action of my old GE's. My mother, God rest her soul, always missed her Frigidaire with the Jet Action.

Nostalgia is so much fun--but then the sun comes up, the world keeps moving as it always has.
 
New SQ

I've seen more effective action with my Maytag on slow whilst overloaded. I'm not impressed. I don't care if this washer lasts 50 years if it won't wash well, and I cannot see it performing well at all. HE TL machines seem to bank on the enzymes to, in effect, soak out dirt instead of forcing water through the clothes to clean, while it uses a full tub, it really is only doing just that. I cannot recommend this machine to anyone, I am now officially in the WP/MT VMW camp now. I have a new appreciation for WCI "Angel-Wing" indexing tub machines, at least the agitator creates water movement and there is a little turnover. This kind of reminds me of the 1970s GE portable, why even include the agitator, it isn't creating much water movement.

If this and the new MT water hog can pass the efficiency tests, why couldn't the 432?
 
It probably does well for removing "office dust", so may be fine for many people.
People who toil in blue-collar jobs may not get a very clean load.Roofers, asphalt spreaders, sewer workers, field hands, landscapers,factory workers, etc.

My early-sixties Norge is the electric version of beating clothes on a rock.
It does a great job on really dirty clothes.
 
Well, fortunately

I don't do any of that crap. And I don't want or need a washing machine made for them.

And it's the "office dust" people that are the future of this nation.
 
 
<blockquote>mtn1584:  It looks like the agitator is moving independently of the tub, as if the circulations of the wash tub enable the agitator to turn on it's own.</blockquote> No, the agitator and basket are affixed together and rotate as a unit.  The agitator cannot oscillate independently.
 
Well, this is about the level of judgement I was expecting.

I honestly don't see the issue with this machine. Those items are definitely moving through the water with good force. There's both back/forth and rotational turnover, in a very deep tub of water.
I'm not so crazy about the vertical agitator vanes twisting everything up in the center. But it's not a show stopper.

Honestly, what does the agitation style MATTER if everything comes out clean at the end of the cycle? Isn't that the point? If this can do it? Then 'mission accomplished.'

AND....HOW.....has nobody commented on the fact that it still does a (slow) spin drain?! Did y'all see that?
The spray (slow) spin looked pretty good too IMO.

I'm by NO means a SQ fan. But jeez, give these things a chance.
It's also very common for companies/engineers to make running production changes and tweaks to things as they get more research and market feedback in.
 
I like the old SQ

better - I also prefer spin drains to neutral drains. I read someone above post there are neutral drain fans out there. Could someone explain to me how anyone would prefer a neutral drain over a spin drain? Just wondering. Thanks

I do think this would get clothes clean - but it's doing it very boringly. Nothing exciting going on.

I'm sure it's built to last and it does use a good amount of water. I've just gotten so used to FL washers I don't think I could stand going back to a TL. I could try though.
 
On the plus side, this machine is very quiet like the GE Hydrowave and has a well executed load sensing setup. It should also be very durable since the motor is directly connected to the tub solely by a pulley and driveshaft and therefore easy to repair. My praise ends there.

If Whirlpool came up with a machine with this anemic of wash action there would be no mercy. This particular machine says Speed Queen on it so it's a different story. As others have said, this is basically a Frigidaire immersion care with an agitator. No thanks, I'll stick to my VMW and enjoy clean clothes. It uses the same amount of water and washes the same amount of clothes better. They are also dirt cheap on Craigslist whenever I need a replacement.
 
On the plus side, this machine is very quiet like the GE Hydrowave

 

I suppose that would be a selling point for some. Indeed, that is the major sales tool a clerk at the local Home Depot always used. "Well, this Admiral [WP DD] works, but this machine over here [at 2x the cost] is much quieter!"


 

But I'd miss the entertaining sound of operation. Plus I'm just plain used to noisy washers, what with having grown up with a KM BD, and having had WP DD machines most of the last 20 years...

[this post was last edited: 12/13/2017-14:52]
 
I can't really compare what I see in this video to other washers since I have only owned 3 in my life so far, but I can compare this to my 2017 SQ TL which this replaces.

Fill - the auto fill seems to add about a minute or so for the sensors to spin and sense the load and add more water at various points. In the end, this ends up at about the top water level after 6 minutes which is a good sign that it used the most water for what looked like a pretty large load when placed in the basket. At least the auto fill is not trying to wash with less water than the load appears to need. Another positive is that it remembered the water level for the rinse cycle and took less time, about 5 minutes to fill, skipping the sensing spins. Strange how long this takes to fill though since my 2017 can fill the tub to the top in about 3-4 minutes.

Wash cycle - this seemed long at about 14 minutes but perhaps given the slower turnover it needed the extra few minutes compared to the 2017 models. The turnover was not impressive but perhaps it is adequate in real life. Will be interested to see how well it does with bulky or heavier items like jeans or heavy soiled items. Will see how others review this but my eyebrow is raised.

Rinse cycle - it seems to use a mix of two spray rinses and a fill rinse although I could have been looking away. The fill rinse agitation seemed short at about 3 minute. Again, turnover seems too sluggish with the mix of short and long rotations.

Spin cycle - I like the idea of a neutral drain for removing sediment before the spin begins. However, almost all the water drains before the spin begins leaving all the towels at the bottom bunching them together during the spin. I would think that leads to less extraction. My 2017 drains while it spins which keeps the load suspended resulting in clothes all the way the basket wall, not all laying at the bottom. I would think the 2017 allows for more extraction but again more reviews will tell that story.

Overall time seems about 10 minutes longer than heavy duty, large load on my 2017 8 series. 10 minutes isn't a big deal, but that is about 33% longer which sounds like a lot by comparison.
 
Who knows

It’s not what we’re used to seeing but I wouldn’t be surprised if tests would prove that it gets clothes cleaner than the old TL design. There’s much more, and stronger, water turbulence in this new model than in the old design. When the tub reverses direction those clothes are getting hit with a very forceful wall of water. And if you look you can see that the wash water got visibly dirty very quickly.

Even so I’d rather have a FL. I think FLs provide more wash action and get clothes cleaner than either the old or new TL designs. However I must admit when HE FLs came out I was totally skeptical and vowed I’d never have one. But I was wrong. They are very effective if loaded properly and dosed with detergent properly.

So for that reason I’m going to keep an open mind about this new design.
 
Thanks, thefisch, for your detailed observations.  I enjoyed reading everyone else's comments as well.

 

I replaced a good old 1980s Kenmore DD with a Neptune FL back in 2006.  I liked it right off the bat. I thought it cleaned better and I liked being able to wash blankets and comforters. My partner at the time despised it immediately and never warmed up to it for one simple reason...the longer cycle times.  He was a "one load at a time" kind of guy and in his opinion whatever advantages the FL had didn't make up for it taking twice as long.

 

His opinion was just as valid as mine and there are millions of Americans that feel the same way.  So for them, the end of the conventional SQ TL line is the end of buying a new machine with the design they prefer.  Not surprised there are so many displeased people on this forum!

 

In one of the SQ sales presentation videos they say that they were forced to add load sensing to comply with new water regulations - and that may be true.  However if the machines are still allowed to use this much water (as does the new Maytag MVWP575GW) then why could it have not used the traditional agitation system?


 

It seems to me that this wash mechanism change was more of marketing/cost decision (i.e. simpler design gave them the opportunity to offer 7-year warranty.)  And that's fine, it's a strategic move that may pay off, but I don't like the fact that they sort of implied that government regulations made them do it.  Looking at the Maytag machine I don't see how that could truly be the case.

 

Interesting times for laundry machines, great fun to see the innovations, like them or not!

 

 

 

 
 
Why are you so focused on turnover?

Even if there was turn over, it would do nothing to clean the clothes in this design.

On the old design with the agitator moving quickly back and forth indpendently of tub, laundry and water, the side to side motion of the agitator moved the laundry up and down through the water.
As the tub was mostly motionless, the laundry was moved in a circle like motion up and down, being beaten by the agitator and rubbbing against the static tub.
The water moved in one direction alongside the laundry at mostly the exact same speed, thus more flowing with the items then through the fibres and items.

This is what you guys know as "roll over".

On this design, the tub, agitator and laundry move in unison. In relation to each other, there is barely any movement, thus barely any friction.
The agitator dosen't beat the clothes clean, they don't rub against the drum at high forces, thus, they get the incredible improvement in terms of gentleness that they claim to have achieved.

The wash action here that actually clean the clothes 95% based on water flow.
As laundry, tub and agiator move in unison in one direction, the water begins to flow with the motion of the laundry like on the old system.
As long as the water flows with the laundry at about the same speed, there is barely any friction between tub, agitator and laundry and the water once again dosen't flow through the laundry, but with it. There are close to no forces of friction or simmilar acting between laundry, tub/agitator and water.

Now, however, the drum and agitator suddenly and verry decisivley reverse.
So, agitator and tub now basicly instantly move in the opposite direction of laundry and water.
At this point, just after the reversing, there will be some friction between the laundry next to the tub walls and right next to the agitator. The majority of the load however which has no contact to the agitator or tub don't experience much friction or cleaning at all. Yet.
These pieces of laundry now begin to reverse their direction of movement and start to move again along side the agitator and tub.
Through some friction, the whole bunch that is the load of laundry pretty quickly begins to reverse as well and to flow - now again - together with all the other laundry, tub and agitator into the same direction.
That little bit of friction between the items here will contribute to cleaning, too.

However, only now the main cleaning action of an agitation stroke in this washer starts.
How?
The entire mass of these 20+gal of hot water mixed with detergent was moving in the same direction as everything else just a moment ago.
Now, even though tub, agitator and laundry have reversed their direction of movement, the water will still move and flow in the old direction.
As the water has a lot of inertia, it takes a decent amount of time for it to start to flow in unison with the laundry and wash unit again.
This means, while the water moves into one direction, the laundry is forced into the exact opposite direction.
It's like 2 cars driving behind each other, and the front car suddenly reverses out of thin air: The resulting collison has a lot of force.
As water and laundry now move exactly opposite to each other, the water is forced through the load, while the load is forced through the water. The pressure of this actions streams water through and arround every fibre, through every non-waterproof item, with it the detergents. That water movement carrys out soils gently and effectivley.

Before, the agitation moved the laundry through the water. But the water was baled to move along.
Now, the water is moved through the load.
Each time the agitub reverses, a powerfull flow of water is sent through every item in the load, just like a tidal wave on the beach that you run into, or - like I said - 2 cars hitting each other head on.

They took the typical step from thinking non-HE-washing to HE-washing:
Non-HE-washers were about moving laundry through water. Thus, laundry had to float, and had to move at a rather fast pace.
HE-washers (and that is true for TLs and FLs) are about moving water through the laundry. That is what recirculation pumps, spin-spray pretreatments and low profile agitators are about. People say "Oh, but the laundry dosen't move!" Yeah it moves less - visibly.
What counts is relative movement, relative movement of every part (laundry, water, tub, agitator, etc.) to each other.
If you pull the items through the water or isntead pull the water through the items DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE!
The pre-2018 SQ TLs pulled laundry through the water, these 2018 models pull water through the laundry.

To solidify my view, I'll make a prediction right now that I am almost entirely sure about that it will come true:

People who will use to high waterlevels for to small loads will be EXTREMLY underwhelmed by the cleaning. If the laundry can just float around in the water, the agitub movement will not be abled to create that sudden reversing effect of the laundry in relation to the wash water and the laundry and water instead will move as one item, simply because there is to little friction between the load and the moving parts. Then, there is no reverse waterflow in relation to the items being washed, and barely any water wiil be moved through the fabrics.

This washer will deliver the best results with the just-about-loosely-filled-up type of loads (in relation to the selected water level, of course).
To little laundry for the water level will mean that that agitub can't effectivley "grip onto" the washload and can't move it efgectivley back and forth.
Too much laundry will be to much resitance to the waterflow and thus the reversing periods won't be enough to force water and detergent solution through every layer of the overly densly packed load.

Really, after the first few agiation moves I thought everybody had to realize that they did that switch-up of what is moving in relation to what now.
But apparently verry few people actually give thought to what that water that they o-so desire in ridiculous amounts does.
 
They were forced to add load sensing, they only had to on one the normal eco cycle which does a spray rinse instead of a deep fill, the commercial vmw maytag also does load sensing and a spray rinse on their normal cycle, kirks video even demonstrates it, he did a load with only 7 shirts on the maytag and it did only fill the tub half way.
 

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