Follow-up on LG FL washer...a year later. SQ it is.

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dreamclean

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May 18, 2016
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Portland
I had posted last summer asking about what kind of washer to go for. Based on advice, but mostly sale prices, I went with LG WM4270HVA. I was gravitating towards a Speed Queen but went against my better judgement. Let this be a cautionary tale. First off, I'm a very observant person and I derive a great deal of pleasure from doing laundry. Ever since I bought this thing, it has been a major source of stress for both myself and my family. It started with noticing odors weren't being removed either on warm or cold settings, permanent press or delicate. That drove me crazy and still does. I don't like the steam setting bc it breaks down elastic and other components, plus clothes looked even rougher. Right out of the washer they don't even look or feel clean no matter what I've tried. I noticed dirt caked to the bottom of my pajamas. I've done all the trouble-shooting (detergent types and amounts, settings etc) and I'm convinced that these HE washers DO NOT CLEAN CLOTHES and wear them out prematurely. From an environmental standpoint it takes A LOT of energy and water to manufacture and distribute clothing, so for them to wear out so fast negates all good the new rules could possibly do for the environment. All of my tee shirts are pilling horribly. But the last straw was yesterday when I put brand new socks in the washer on cold and they came out pilled and looking 3 years old. I used to be able to throw everything (jeans, tees you name it) in my TL Maytag and everything smelled fresh, looked crisp and clean and lasted years. I don't even remember what clean clothes smell like. So that's it. Selling this piece of sh- and getting a Speed Queen. Attached a pic of all the pilling on my new cotton socks. And no there were no jeans or towels or anything other than cottons in the load. Last one is a pilled tee that has hardly even been worn.

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First off I would look to see if you have a vane nicked up in the drum. Then I would look at laundry prep like do you close zippers on jeans and such? Then I would look at what you are using for water temps. If you are using tap cold and never a hot wash for lets say whites, and you don't leave the door open after your laundry day is done, you will get a smell. Or you don't remove the laundry as soon as the washer finishes and you decide to come back a day or two later, that can cause an issue. Then there is the choice of detergent. If one does not use the correct dosage you will have issues.
I have an LG 3570 front loader and never have any issues with what you describe. But thats because I prep laundry properly, sort, and I use a good detergent like Persil or Tide. I also use the TurboWash feature on every cycle. That alone will save time and clean better than just plain tumbling. I have found that the Steam option does very little for performance. I also never use cold water to wash laundry, its either hot for whites on Bright Whites and Warm from everything else. So before you chuck the LG washer figure out what you are doing and go from there. Also overloading the washer will get you the results you describe here. Just my opinion.
Also when you think of getting an SQ washer, if its a top loader as I have one, it aint all that.
 
Hi there,
Appreciate your reply. I don't think there are any drum problems, I felt around in there again. I can't attribute it to that when the inside of the clothes are pilling to this degree. I've been experimenting with everything I could think to do for a year now. I only do small loads, I don't put anything with hardware or zippers in there, just cotton tops, sweatpants, socks, undies. The odors are localized, mainly armpits. They were still there no matter what wash temperature. I think that improved with the turbowash setting and less detergent but it did not help underwear. The machine itself has no odor and the door stays open.I only use cold water now since the fabric was already being degraded by the mechanical action (presumably wet-nap friction.) Pilling is equally bad on the inside so turning inside out makes no difference. I remove wet laundry immediately. I used arm and hammer, regular tide and coldwater, a highly rated powder, but I think Ms Meyers gets things the cleanest. Tide coldwater apparently leaves a chemical on the clothes to prevent dirt build up, and I was allergic to something in it. When I switched to Tide whites started looking grey. I read Tide has a lot of fillers. The turbo wash option has been on by default. I've filled up the detergent to the line, I use a tablespoon now and tried everything in between. It destroys all my socks no matter the brand, screen-printed tees look several years old after a few washes, rips seams apart in high quality towels. Thought I'd share some more pics. I've been buying the same brands of quality socks and tees for years so I know how long they should be lasting. I think this probably happens to a lot of people but they a) don't expect things to hold up anymore bc they don't b) aren't that observant c) don't have anything to compare it to and d) like to buy new stuff all the time anyway (I don't.) Really shouldn't be this hard...Would you mind telling me which model SQ? I was impressed with the commercial machines when I had to go to the laundromat.

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This really proves what a difference in opinions there are about ANYTHING! I have had every kind of washing machine known to mankind and my last, before my LG made front loader, was a Maytag set. I liked them very much and had great success with them. Someone else has them now and uses them daily. However, I like my LG front loading washer and dryer better than anything I have EVER used before. It not only cleans extremely well, it rinses up to 3 extra rinses and everything I put in it comes out clean, fresh and lint free. I used to have the small lint balls on my wool socks too, which I DO NOT have anymore with the front loader. So you see, there are different opinions about EVERYTHING! What one person perceives as wonderful, another person does not. I also think that seeing an HE front loader use so little water is a bit unsettling to most people too. I found that to be true, but as I watch it do it's job, I see that it does do what it is supposed to do with less wear on the clothing than top load washers. My machine is made so the door stays slightly ajar when not in use and I have never had any musty smell or odors. I do regularly use the steam treat option regularly for whites and it does a good job also. I bought the largest capacity machines I could at the time and could not be happier with them in the last 4 years or so.
 
Christi:

First off, sorry you are having trouble with your machines. It's not fun.

If you are ready to kick them to the curb, however, you have nothing to lose, so, in your shoes, I'd try a couple of things.

First off, get an old pair of nylons (or buy the cheapest pair available), and rub them against the vanes in the washer, and also the *entire* basket -- you want to see if anything snags/catches, including nicks in the vanes, some weld or joint not polished, maybe some foreign material is lodged in one/a few of the basket holes and wearing out clothes. Do the same thing in the dryer, it's sometimes the dryer that does that instead of the washer, or sometimes *both* the dryer and the washer are damaging the clothes.

Second thing, is that clothes that have synthetic fibers or even just "durable press" treatments are way more likely to pill than pure cotton or linen. The problem, of course, is that recently getting *good* long staple cotton is very expensive, so many countries are mixing a bit of polyester or other synthetic fiber to "extend" their profits. Since very few mills are still operating in US and most of our fabric (or even ready-to-wear garments) are made abroad, and their laws let them still label the material 100%, there's nothing we can do short of convincing the lawmakers in US to make labeling of such materials more stringent -- I would not hold my breath on that when the current majority of Senate/Congress is on the paychecks from all kinds of manufacturers.

In any case, opinions vary, and a majority of people in fact claim that a *small* mix of synthetic fibers with a majority of cotton or linen does in fact feel better. I'm not sure I agree, but there you have it, we need to deal with the fact that laundering mixed fibers is a thing now.

So, what can you do? To begin with, I'd recommend high quality laundry detergents that have enough enzymes to clean the clothes thoroughly, some of them will contain cellulase, which will prevent/remove the pills or at least slow down their progression; always open a faucet closest to your washer and bleed the pipes from cold water until you see water as hot as possible, so the machine can wash with *actual* warm or hot water.

Tumble washers are not as aggressive with clothes as the old top loaders with agitators, so you will do better raising the temperature. For anything cotton/linen and regular synthetics, this will not be a problem, in fact warmer water will help the fibers flex better. The thing to watch out is silk and/or wool, which might require cold water -- on the other hand so much wool is dry clean only that it may not be a problem.

Another thing I want to go over carefully with you is dryer usage -- read your user's guide and/or call LG and ask them what temperatures your dryer runs at. Why is this important? Because you do *not* want your clothes tumbling in the dryer for too long, that causes pilling and/or shrinkage, so use regular heat or whatever is appropriate for cotton with your cotton loads. I can hear several people screaming "what? everyone including the labels tell me to use low heat!?!" from here. Here's the deal. Up to about 25 years ago or so, there were two different situations: home dryers, that run at about 140F for low, 160F or so for normal and about 180F for high heat; and we had really big and fast dryers, used in laundromats and commercial coin-operated laundries, that often *started* at 160F for low, 185F for regular and went above 200F for high. At that point, yes, you might want to run everything at low heat.

But current home dryers are often running very close to 100-110F for low, 120-140F for regular and barely reaching 165-170F for high. What does that mean to you? It means that any new person who is basically not paying attention or is particular about how laundry is done might be getting better results than the rest of us because they select "normal/regular" in the washer and dryer and get a hot wash and a decent drying temperature that doesn't shrink and/or pill their fabrics and finishes in a decent time. Anyone else drying the clothes on "low" will be drying on very low temperatures it's true, but that might extend the tumbling time when the fibers are not wet/lubricated, so they can shrink/pill/wear out faster, which is counter-intuitive, but confirmed by many institutions that study textiles.

Speaking of fiber lubrication, I would also recommend a good liquid fabric softener (even scent-free ones) in your case. They can help a great deal in cases like that. Resist the urge to overdose them, use the minimal amount that can do the job.

As for going back to a SpeedQueen toploader, good luck. I have only used the old style of their washers (over 20 years ago), did not like it. They were rough on clothes and did not clean as well. Of course, YMMV and we have plenty of people here that live in different localities with different water quality to contradict me, and that's completely OK with me. For example, I've used plenty of front loaders, and have friends who have LG equipment, but I have not used them myself, so I can't offer my honest opinion.

But I *can* warn you that the last time I looked at Speed Queen webpage, a month of two ago, the energy label for their current toploader implies that they are using *much* less energy and water. That may be because they are dumbing down the hot and warm to warmish and cold wash, and/or because they are using just spray rinses instead of deep rinses, or worse, maybe they are not filling the basket with water to the top like they used to, or a combination of all of those. That would cause excess wear too.

People here observed that only the Normal Eco, or whatever the name of the cycle is, has temperature, water level and rinse restrictions, and you can use other cycles just like the top loaders of 20+ years ago.

While that would be great, in your shoes, having been displeased with poor performance once already, I'd ask a billion questions, not only at the store(s), but try to find out friends or acquaintances that have *recently* bought the machine you want. This year's model might differ enough from last or the year before model to annoy you too.

Better yet, call Speed Queen and tell them you need to talk to someone and you have pre-sales questions.

I will say this however: from my point of view, Speed Queen promises longevity/reliability. That is great if it's what you want. But I've seen many people who have greatly disliked their sets (all brands, not any brand in particular) for over 15 to 20 years, and the "reliability" of the set was partly because people did not do any more laundry than strictly necessary, many times washing "delicate" garments by hand.

I'd rather buy equipment that might not last me as long but cleans and preserves my garments very well and doesn't irritate me when I'm doing laundry, which is also a thing that provides me great stress relief with the right equipment (and, like you, a lot of aggravation with the wrong equipment and detergents etc).

In any case, I wish you best of luck in your quest.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.
 
One thing however

I did notice on the 4.5 CF models of the LG's, which are the newer models and upgraded from the 4.3 CF models, is that their cleaning score has dropped to a "Very Good" as opposed to "Excellent" which was found on the older 4.3 CF models. I also did note how the ratings have dropped to just under 5 stars where as before it was 4.5 stars.

Now based off of seeing this as well, I'm HIGHLY considering NOT to buy an LG set for our new house, and maybe just stick with WP duets or Maximas.

HOWEVER, LG units have been known to have "software issues" which severely impacts cleaning performance, this was seen well in Consumer Reports testing where certain models actually got a Poor rating for cleaning due to software issues, however after getting a machine without the issue the scores jumped to Excellent immediately. In this case, call up the store where you bought it from and have them check the machine out.
 
"software issues"

That thought occurred to me too, as I had recently read something online about the dodgy software.

Maybe Dreamclean's model simply requires a software update?
 
In my pipe, smokin' it

If it's software issues and I PRAY to the laundry gods it is, we are due to have somebody come check it out soon for the warranty.
I'm comparing cleaning performance and fabric wear and tear to a Maytag TL I used for many years at a different house on (hard) well-water. I always, always, used the delicate cycle, in cold water with immaculate results on everything. It was effortless. Life was simple then.
Moving to a suburb of grimy but lovable Portland, on public water, we escaped the widespread LEAD panic of 2016...but my former roommate believed that our water was to blame for less than stellar laundry. The water is soft, because it's difficult to rinse out shampoo and I don't see hard water build-up anywhere. His wardrobe consisted of under armour synthetics and when I found myself recoiling from his stench and mentioned it, he agreed that something was amiss. Growing up in NY in an apparel industry family he staunchly advocated cold water for everything to preserve the life of the garment. Since we both had equally bad results removing normal body odor with hot, warm and cold water we stuck with cold on permanent press. In contrast to his synthetics, my loads are almost exclusively cottons which absorb my day to day sweat and I just don't find that they come out of the wash as crisp and fresh as I am accustomed. Ms Meyers detergent has enzymes so that's covered. I just read that cold water cycles use less water, so maybe that would explain all the pilling. I also read cold water won't kill fecal bacteria. Ouch. If the fabrics require warm or hot water to flex, preventing some of this wash wear, based on what I read today I it sounds like I'm trading pilling for stretched out clothes that are faded from loss of dye in higher temperatures. Anything nicking in the drum wouldn't explain the pilling on the inside. And the new pilled sock that sparked my outrage has never seen the inside of the dryer, along with a few other items. Again, just cold on permanent press in a small load. Great insights, and I would like to test some theories in the light of real scientific inquiry. My next step is to add some more rinse cycles and increase my spin speed to reduce dryer time. It's too late for most of my knock-around clothes, so in the meantime I'm considering a trip to the laundromat for my new stuff bc hand washing isn't effective in removing oils and odors from my experience and research. I'll have the machine looked at but I don't think there's one brand out there I have confidence in now if SQ isn't the holy grail some say it is.

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I too would advise the warmer cycles, as others have said.

Detergents usually contain enzymes, which work best around 40 deg Celsius. The warmer water also opens the weave, and helps to melt and release body oils (sebum) from the fabric. Warmer temperatures are also required to remove greasy food stains.

Regarding your terrible odours in clothes: does your detergent contain an oxygen bleach? I have a sneaky feeling that your 'Mrs Myers' detergent is just too lame in cleaning - not enough 'oomph' - most 'Eco' stuff is. Ditch it.

Go for a biological powder detergent with built in enzymes and built in oxygen bleach if you can. The big brands (P&G, Unilever, Henkel) generally have the better formulations, although some of the supermarkets' own versions might be acceptable too - I haven't experienced the American detergent market.

But I do know the British detergent market. Powders clean better than liquids. Powders clean better than those awful 'liquitab' pods. I have found that using liquid detergents alone, body odour does build up on clothing. I have found that powders remove the odours.

Our "Which?" magazine tested detergents and gave supermarket Lidl's 'Formil' powder 'Best Buy' status, matched only by much more expensive P&G's 'Ariel'. Both contain enzymes (six in 'Formil', four in 'Ariel'). Both have oxygen based bleach. Oxygen based bleach helps to remove stains, and more importantly, helps to kill bacteria in the clothing. It does however, fade colours over time.
 
Detergents

For example, Persil Proclean 'Power pearls', apparently on sale in the US, has oxygen based bleach (SODIUM CARBONATE PEROXYHYDRATE), and five enzymes (PROTEASE, AMYLASE, CELLULASE, LIPASE, MANNANASE).

Protease removes protein stains: sweat, blood and gravy.

Amylase removes starchy stains (starched linens, mashed potato).

Cellulase cleans cotton and is supposed to prevent bobbling and pilling.

Lipase removes greasy stains and body oils (sebum).

Mannanase breaks down gum thickeners that are found in foods (guar gum, locust bean gum, xanthan gum).
 
Powder

Hi Rolls,
Thanks for the reply. I had tried different eco-brands and I do agree with the general consensus that they don't work that well. However, I keep coming back to Ms Meyers even after buying the mainstream bunny-killing brands. The clothes seemed cleaner and the colors/whites brighter, worked pretty well on odor. I've tried the powders, admittedly mostly in cold water, and they didn't seem to fair any better. Meyers is highly rated and I do like the essential oil type fragrance. I will certainly revisit my biological powder using warm water after seeing your post. I'm afraid I won't be trying an oxygen based bleach if it compromises color integrity, although my nicest things are hand wash or dry clean only so it probably shouldn't matter so much. Like I said before, I think using the turbowash setting (more water, shorter cycle) and less detergent has greatly improved the body odor issue, but I still miss that fresh-from-the-wash scent and the radiant aura of a truly clean load of clothes. I've never even tried the pods (just a gut feeling) so I'm glad to hear a strong opininion about them.
 
Re:  Oxygen bleach

 

I've been using it for years and cannot say it ever impacted colors.  Much gentler that chlorine.  

 

Since your clothes are no longer pristine, you have nothing to loose by trying warmer to hot water and a different detergent.  Try Persil or Tide with a bit of softener such as Downey.  I've tried a number of detergents over the years and keep coming back to Tide simply because it does a good job.  I've got a half dozen bottles and boxes of other detergents that never quite performed as they should - so I know the feeling of getting less than optimum wash results.

 
 
Persil

Ok, so I just bought a liquid Persil $10 for 25 loads on eBay. When they started talking about "10 Diminsions of Clean" that got my attention. Anything is better than the dirty dimension I currently reside in. I know it's not going to solve all my problems but fingers crossed.
 
About the warm water

Just remembered I used the default permanent press setting with warm water for a few months. So already tried that. I think the pilling also worsened when I used the lower spin cycle. Was doing that to avoid stretching since it seemed to contribute to pulled out threads and misshapen garments. Haven't used hot water, the roommate said it would set stains so avoid at all costs. I've had a year to try everything so I think I've covered a lot of ground, except for the software question.
 
So, again, I'd like to start this by saying that I'm sorry you're having troubles, it's no fun, and also that I have no direct experience with the machines you have, although I have several friends who own equipment from LG and they're happy with them.

I'd also like to say that I fully understand wanting to kick something you never liked to the curb even if it's not broken. I think it's your call and you should do what makes you happy.

However, I'd like to mention a few more things in case it might help you or other people reading this thread.

It's astounding how many *different* things can be described by very similar words. A friend of mine visited old castles in Europe in the mid '80s and came back home laughing by how every single docent described the castles they were showing as "we tried to keep it *exactly* like it was 300 years ago" and some of them were super clean and some of them were filthy beyond description.

So, we have had every kind of description for LG washers here in AW: some say that when you select "hot" the machine does a warm wash, and when you select "warm" it's barely lukewarm etc. I'd say take some measurements, or at the very least do what you can to feel the door etc. Because yes, you may have been selecting "warm" all this time and getting a cold wash.

All fabrics "pill"/wear out -- it's just that fibers from some fabrics are weak enough that they break and fall off, while stronger fibers like polyester ball up instead and become conspicuous. Polyester also relaxes a bit with warm/hot water and resists breaking, while in cold water, particularly low level, it will be stiff, break and pill.

Let's talk stains for a second. There's a *big* difference between enzymes sold for the Euro market, where most washers will have heaters powerful enough to fill with cold water and heat it to boiling, if necessary, and enzymes sold for the American market, where washers tended to be top loading and fill with pre-heated water. As you can imagine, enzymes for a "profile" wash, where the machine raises the temperature to human body temp and keeps it there for a decent time, then raises the temperature further, are less expensive than enzymes that have to withstand 120-140F pronto. Nevertheless, most low and middle of the line detergents in US are designed to work at the very least well with 120F exposure immediately, and the top-of-the-line detergents in US work so well because they tend to have at least some of their enzymes that work well in hotter water (140F).

There's more: most of the FLs tumble the clothing and fill at the same time, so no stain will *reach* 140F immediately, in fact, the room-temperature clothes and the machine will absorb heat from the water and even a straight 140F hot fill will end up closer to 115-120F, which is why we tell folks to get a FL with a water heater. This will *not* set the stain, in particular, it will remove the stain just fine with detergents that have high-temperature enzymes in them.

The "hot water will set stains" *can* be true in particular for 1940's conditions: detergents with no enzymes, and people used to let the washer fill up with steaming hot water, let it go for a few minutes to dissolve the soap/detergent, then chuck the clothes in, which would expose the stains to 140F instantly, cooking the proteins and setting the stains.

Now, let's talk about "green" detergents. Yes, it probably has enzymes. Most "green" detergents in US up to a few years ago had none, but then, in actual scientific tests, they kept getting to the bottom of the list because they did not clean very well; enzymes are very expensive compared to other ingredients, though, so I'm not sure they have enough enzymes both from the point of view of number (protease, amylase etc) and from the point of view of percentage of weight of ingredients. I think you will have *much* better luck with Tide HE Turbo or Persil, although many people complain about the strong perfumes in such detergents. The other thing I want to make you aware of, is that until American laws become very stringent with labeling, a "green" label means nothing, in fact, in almost every single case it just means that the manufacturer claims "no animal cruelty" when in fact *all* they are doing is waiting for patents to expire (Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Laureth Sulfate, two major surfactants, have been *extensively* tested on animals over 50 years ago, and the patents have expired decades ago, for example) and using the ingredients. There's no glory in copying Unilever's or P&G's 25-year old formulas and selling them for a high price -- I think it's dishonest on multiple levels; they could sell it for much cheaper, given that they had to do *no* research and they are using 3-decade old formulas, they could be honest about telling us exactly what they are doing. At this point, I'd rather pay slightly less for TOL stuff even though they supposedly tested on animals. I may change my mind later about that.

I'd like to mention fading too. There are a few things to consider here. For example, did you buy beautiful dishcloths or summer clothing that were hand-dyed and hand-woven in Madras, or similar places? The kind of thing you *know* might bleed colors and/or fade, but are prized *precisely* because of that? Then yes, maybe cold or warm wash is advised.

Almost everything else sold in the US is not processed like that in the last 50 years or so. Almost all fabrics that you see for sale are dyed with a process known as "fiber reactive dyes" (Procion[tm] Dyes, for example). Fiber reactive dyes attach themselves to the molecules of the fibers and do not come off until that piece of fiber degrades, to begin with -- that's why they are known as "colorfast". Things that have the potential to degrade the dye-site in the fiber include strong bleaches (chlorine bleach, ultra-violet rays, sunlight), but usually not regular washing even at 140F. In fact, one of the problems one encounters often with such dyes is that the way to *properly* finish the dying process is to rinse the just dyed fabric very quickly in cold water, then another warm rinse, then it should be washed in hot (140F) water, rinsed and dried. Because that process takes time, energy and money, a lot of manufacturers take a shorter, but almost as good, route: they rinse the excess dye, dry the fabric and slap a label telling the buyer to "wash separately" and declare themselves happy. Most people will maybe wash separately once or twice and toss them in a hot or warm wash with other clothes later. The people who washed the items in *hot* water first or at least warm water will experience a *significantly* longer wearing and new-looking garment, because the hot wash will finish setting the dyes more effectively. More about fabric dyeing can be found in the Dharma Trading website (link below).

I used to keep a few cotton dress shirts my husband and I had: they were black or very dark colors, they were over 15 years old when they finally started wearing out. In the last few months of use they got visibly faded (all of a sudden) and started ripping apart at the seams. The remarkable thing about them, though, and the reason I used to show them to everyone who even mentioned fading, was that the *inside* parts of the cuffs, collars, hems etc were still *very* dark, almost the same color they used to be, while the outer parts, which had been in the sun, were the only parts that have faded. Those were not shirts which had dried on the line in the sun -- they were put in the washer, from there to the dryer and then closets. The only sun they were exposed to were the short walks from parking lot to office and back, or walking around to have lunch. I think we can safely discard any "hot water fades fabrics" or "hot dryer fades fabrics".

I'd like to mention two other sources you may find interesting: Cheryl Mendelson's book (Home Comforts: the art and science of keeping house) mentions one of the reasons she started writing the book was because she was a lawyer and she got appalled that one should *not* have to have a Law Degree to be able to do laundry. Most of the things we see on labels nowadays are there because the law is vague enough to require that care labels have to "mention at least one safe method of cleaning" the garment, not the most effective, not the one that will make the garment last the longest etc. Thus you get so many "dry clean only" labels when *everything* in the garment is washable, but no one bothered to pre-shrink say, the shoulder pads or rick-racks or other trim before attaching them to the final product, so now you get to spend *your* money sending the stuff to the cleaners.

Harriet Hargrave, a famous quilter, studied textiles and wrote a book about it (From fiber to fabric). In it, she mentions asking a lot of professors about the "cold wash is best". Well, what a surprise, what the professors said is that any *good* fabric should have been pre-shrunk at the factory and, in most cases, for most people, the hottest wash they will subject the fabric to is 140F and, back when she wrote the book, most domestic dryers would dry the fabric above that temperature, so it shouldn't matter. Also, they pointed out, "cold wash" is relative: at that time, most of the textile schools and remaining fabric mills were in the South, where a cold wash (with pure "cold" water straight out of the tap) is about 80F which is actually lukewarm, and indeed, many current washing machines dumbed down the Hot to 100F or less, the Warm to 85F or less etc.

I will be frank with you -- *currently* most garments sold in US can be washed safely in "warm" (110F/40C) or even "hot" (140F/60C). The couple of fibers to watch out for: some acrylics are temperature sensitive, most can be washed well until 120F; the one that catches people by surprise is polypropylene, a fiber that tends to be used for "technical fabrics", that is, fabrics that people wear in very cold weather because they are light and insulate well, thus being useful for camping/hiking. Those tend to be in socks, some underwear and t-shirts, for example, and they actually can melt in as little as 120F, so one needs to be careful with wash and drying temperature.

What about silk? What about wool? Glad you asked. Those can resist very high heat, but both get weaker when wet, so it's best to wash them gently. Wool, in particular, can take over 250F, which is why one often finds pressing and ironing boards that have a felted wool batting to cushion the fabric to be pressed or ironed. Notice the disparity here: when the wool is not moving, it can take steam and heat just fine. The problem with wool is that the fibers are very much like human hair, which will take and keep a curl when the temperature gets high enough and then gets rapidly cooled, which tends to felt wool. If you are washing wool, you want to keep agitation to a minimum (to prevent the fibers from interlocking [felting]) and you want to keep the temperature *very* stable, which is hard to do at home with hot washes, and the reason we're told to wash wool in warm or, even better, lukewarm or cool water.

So, with all of that in here for you to mull about, we come back to your problem: I am not sure that *any* of the new washers that *look* like your old Maytag will *behave* like your Maytag.

What can you do? Well, again, ask many many questions. If you can arrange to test drive your friends' washers, do so, with the caveat that by now, what is sold to the home market can be sufficiently different from what you find at the laundromat that I don't consider "I used it at the laundromat" as a real, useful, test drive.

You can try to buy an older set -- lots of people are desperate to get rid of their sets because they want to use the newfangled stuff for sale. You could find a gently used, never broken set. Maybe even one of your friends wants to swap your equipment for theirs, both of you would be happier.

All I can tell you is that my parents like traveling to touristy places and coming back with "the t-shirts" for themselves and us kids. After a few too many times they kept asking me and my siblings how come *our* t-shirts looked brand new after 5 years and theirs were faded and/or worn out, and all of us telling them we wash our stuff in hot water with front-loading washers, they finally got a clue and switched to FL when their set died. They seem happy with it so far.

Good luck!
   -- Paulo.

 
"Ok, so I just bought a liquid..."

I honestly think that is the crux of the problem.

You seem to be, for some reason or other, married to liquids. And I really don't mean that statement in a nasty way.

Powders, by their very design, are the most advanced detergents available, superior builders, better surfactants, improved enzyme formulations and oxygen bleach. The components don't interact with each other in the packet because they are encapsulated within granules.

The oxygen bleach in powder detergents helps to kill bacteria, not only on the clothes but in the machine too.

Machine manufacturers state that "maintenance washes" must be done fairly regularly. These are done empty, on a very hot cycle, with POWDER. Only powder detergents containing oxygen bleach are capable of cleaning the machine properly.

And it stands to reason, that if powders are used for most laundry loads, the machine will be kept much cleaner, far longer.

Liquid detergents cannot contain oxygen bleach, as it destabilises, and the enzymes are rendered useless.

Liquid detergents also contribute to "mouldy washer" syndrome, where mould, mildew and sour smells build up in the machine. This bio-film can even attack the alloy drum spider assembly.
 
For information:

"Ultra Tide with Bleach Powdered Detergent"

Ingredient Name {Function}
Sodium Carbonate {removes water hardness}
Sodium Sulfate {processing aid}
Sodium Aluminosilicate {removes water hardness}
Linear Alkylbenzene Sulfonate {surfactant}
Sodium Percarbonate {oxygen bleach}
Sodium Laureth Sulfate {surfactant}
Nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate {bleach activator}
Sodium Polyacrylate {dispersant}
Silicate {processing aid}
Water {processing aid}
Fragrance {Fragrance}
Palmitic Acid {processing aid}
Polyethylene Glycol 4000 {stabilizer}
Disodium Diaminostilbene Disulfonate {whitening agent}
Silicone {suds suppressor}
Protease {enzyme (stain remover)}
Amylase {enzyme (stain remover)}
Lipase {enzyme (stain remover)}
FD&C BLUE #1 {colorant}

 
Hopeful

Thanks DaD for the Fluff Uni guide. It was Eye-opening and I learned that my ms Meyers didn't pass the test...they said coconut cleansers trap bacteria. Ditching it. So yes Rolls you got me, I'm married to liquids bc I'm still married to my Maytag. Fortunately, the Liquid Persil was rated as an excellent detergent even for cloth diapers. Paolo, you've given me a lot to think about and I appreciate your insights-- the hot water is a true revelation, among other things. About the dyes though- I have seen a lot of my things release dye into the water when I hand-wash so still unsure about color bleeding with today's fabrics and so brainwashed into associating hot water with fading and wear. But again, the Maytag used cold with such success it seems I'm having to pick up the new machine's slack by changing my habits. After thanking all of you I feel like I'm giving a toast or graduation speech or something. Maybe clean undestroyed laundry is in my future. But anyway, you guys need to write an ebook on this bc I'd gladly buy it. So much misinformation out there plus old habits die hard. I'm chomping at the bit to do a load but still not enough to throw in there.
 

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