passatdoc
Well-known member
....from this morning's New York Times:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/travel/11Frugal.html?hpw
http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/travel/11Frugal.html?hpw
For members of this board who are Italian cuisine fans....
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passatdoc
Well-known member
slide show
Slide slow:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/04/11/travel/20100411ABRUZZO_index.html
Slide slow:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/04/11/travel/20100411ABRUZZO_index.html
Thanks!
There is nothing in this world like real Italian cooking.
Substitute fresh, fresh, fresh for oregano.
Cut the meat portion to 1/10.
Forget the "Italian" sausage, meatballs and, especially, the "pizza".
Take four times the amount of pasta to sugo.
And don't forget, fresh, fresh - everything fresh.
That's real Italian.
There is nothing in this world like real Italian cooking.
Substitute fresh, fresh, fresh for oregano.
Cut the meat portion to 1/10.
Forget the "Italian" sausage, meatballs and, especially, the "pizza".
Take four times the amount of pasta to sugo.
And don't forget, fresh, fresh - everything fresh.
That's real Italian.
My mother was an Italian war bride (that's WW II, kids), and I grew up with the real deal at every meal. It was wonderful. Gotta love Italian food!
I had lunch today with a friend from the Toscana
It was heavenly. Italians have a saying when the rest of Europe confronts them on their, to put it mildly, "chaotic" bureaucracy:
"Ah, well, yes. You do have civilization. We, however, have culture."
At least as far as food is concerned, I'd say Italy defines civilization through the culture of food.
We had a simple marinara sauce with ruccula cut up fine and wilted just for a minute in olive oil and pine nuts in the skillet, then tossed into the sauce and served over penne lice (no.46).
Heaven. Absolute heaven.
The pecorino, sliced razor thin and layered in a wagon spoke pattern of five slices on top with capers at the top and a dap of home-made black olive pesto at the bottom...gods, that is food.
Her mother would have never approved, of course, (penne lice are not ideal for this sauce) but that is the delight of Italian cooking - fresh and making the best out of what's there.
It was heavenly. Italians have a saying when the rest of Europe confronts them on their, to put it mildly, "chaotic" bureaucracy:
"Ah, well, yes. You do have civilization. We, however, have culture."
At least as far as food is concerned, I'd say Italy defines civilization through the culture of food.
We had a simple marinara sauce with ruccula cut up fine and wilted just for a minute in olive oil and pine nuts in the skillet, then tossed into the sauce and served over penne lice (no.46).
Heaven. Absolute heaven.
The pecorino, sliced razor thin and layered in a wagon spoke pattern of five slices on top with capers at the top and a dap of home-made black olive pesto at the bottom...gods, that is food.
Her mother would have never approved, of course, (penne lice are not ideal for this sauce) but that is the delight of Italian cooking - fresh and making the best out of what's there.
Is there anything but. I could live on pastas and sauces. I almost do now. And there's nothing like a good big sandwich/sub on bread filled with meats and provolone etc, yum
lordkenmore
Well-known member
fresh, fresh, fresh
No thanks. I prefer my ingredients well mannered.
[Lord Kenmore pauses to let the audience finish groaning. Plus give him a chance to dodge a couple of rotten tomatoes flung at him.]
No thanks. I prefer my ingredients well mannered.
[Lord Kenmore pauses to let the audience finish groaning. Plus give him a chance to dodge a couple of rotten tomatoes flung at him.]
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I liked this article. One of my fantasies has been to travel to Italy. Partly, because I've heard so many people say how nice the country is. Then, I think I'd enjoy eating my way through Italy. It would be interesting to compare it with what we see in the US.
Indeed, as I think of it, this comparison could be quite interesting. I would say I like Italian...but I'm not sure how authentic the Italian I've eaten has been. Although, I'm betting what I have had in recent years has been quite a bit more authentic than some of the "Italian" I grew up with. In my family, we often had "spaghetti", which was always--always--made with an envelope of spaghetti seasoning which had all the spices and flavors needed to make real Italian spaghetti. Or so the package claimed. It was quite a revelation when I first had a sauced made from scratch, and when I started cooking, I resolved that I would never, ever use a pack of that mix.
Indeed, as I think of it, this comparison could be quite interesting. I would say I like Italian...but I'm not sure how authentic the Italian I've eaten has been. Although, I'm betting what I have had in recent years has been quite a bit more authentic than some of the "Italian" I grew up with. In my family, we often had "spaghetti", which was always--always--made with an envelope of spaghetti seasoning which had all the spices and flavors needed to make real Italian spaghetti. Or so the package claimed. It was quite a revelation when I first had a sauced made from scratch, and when I started cooking, I resolved that I would never, ever use a pack of that mix.
When I was in Rome last in 2001, I got some pizza from something kinda loke a hotdog stand here. The pizza was incredible, as the friends I was traveling with said, it was nothing like I'd ever had and they were right. But a lot of it had to do with the local cheeses which I hadn't encountered here. And of course lots of fresh veggies and a different kind of crust. I doubt it could be authentically reproduced here. Also loved their chcolate ice cream in Florence. Didn't have as much pasta as I was expecting though. The lasagna was also "different" but very good.
fresh fresh fresh
John,
Keven meant the key "secret" is to stay away from canned ingredients. This makes a huge difference, there's no need of plenty of spices with fresh vegetables.
Keven, penne can be "lisce" (spell "lishe") meaning level/even as opposed to the "rigate"/lineated ones, which I prefer cause these one "catch" the sauce far better because of their rough surface
Jim, I never figured the goose kosher salami from Mortara was famous also there
http://www.italianmade.com/foods/subcat18029.cfm
John,
Keven meant the key "secret" is to stay away from canned ingredients. This makes a huge difference, there's no need of plenty of spices with fresh vegetables.
Keven, penne can be "lisce" (spell "lishe") meaning level/even as opposed to the "rigate"/lineated ones, which I prefer cause these one "catch" the sauce far better because of their rough surface
Jim, I never figured the goose kosher salami from Mortara was famous also there
http://www.italianmade.com/foods/subcat18029.cfm
lordkenmore
Well-known member
the key "secret" is to stay away from canned ingredi
I knew that was what he meant. But I couldn't resist my comment above.
And, yes, fresh is better. Probably for Italian cooking (which I can't claim any sort of expert knowledge of), and certainly cooking in general. At least, in my experience. The nightmare in the US is trying to find fresh ingredients in the US that are any good. For years, I saw nothing but canned tomatoes. Why buy a "fresh" tomato from the produce section of the grocery store when it will be sour, have no taste, and all the texture of cardboard? Things are getting slightly better, thankfully, in part thanks to the increased availability of organic vegetables. (I gave someone who's a little cynical about the whole organic idea an organic carrot. She was shocked by how much better it was than "regular" carrots, commenting it was like what her grandmother had grown in her garden.)
I knew that was what he meant. But I couldn't resist my comment above.
And, yes, fresh is better. Probably for Italian cooking (which I can't claim any sort of expert knowledge of), and certainly cooking in general. At least, in my experience. The nightmare in the US is trying to find fresh ingredients in the US that are any good. For years, I saw nothing but canned tomatoes. Why buy a "fresh" tomato from the produce section of the grocery store when it will be sour, have no taste, and all the texture of cardboard? Things are getting slightly better, thankfully, in part thanks to the increased availability of organic vegetables. (I gave someone who's a little cynical about the whole organic idea an organic carrot. She was shocked by how much better it was than "regular" carrots, commenting it was like what her grandmother had grown in her garden.)
Favorit,
precisely! That's exactly why her mother would never have approved. But Angelica is a modern kind of girl. I get to stay at their house when I am in that part of Italy and the best days begin with mom making fresh pasta for the evening. Well, the really best days begin with her taking me through their garden.
No, the best days begin with her mom's great tea (German's are good at coffee, but tend to make tea a bit too bitter, Italians are better at timing) (yes, dahlinks, that, too).
Nope, the best days are when she says she's making one of her risotti.
Or...
Well, anyway - I think it's time for some more genuine Italian recipes!
Here's one of my favorites. It's idiot proof (good for me) and easy:
precisely! That's exactly why her mother would never have approved. But Angelica is a modern kind of girl. I get to stay at their house when I am in that part of Italy and the best days begin with mom making fresh pasta for the evening. Well, the really best days begin with her taking me through their garden.
No, the best days begin with her mom's great tea (German's are good at coffee, but tend to make tea a bit too bitter, Italians are better at timing) (yes, dahlinks, that, too).
Nope, the best days are when she says she's making one of her risotti.
Or...
Well, anyway - I think it's time for some more genuine Italian recipes!
Here's one of my favorites. It's idiot proof (good for me) and easy:
Risotto
Keven,
I live in Riceland/Mosquitoland
... now in the countryside farmers are about to soak rice fields with water, it seems a flooded land
I have been grown up with much more risotto than pasta, to the point that now I can stand risotto just when I have the proper mood.
It has to be the milanese one (with saffron) BUT with also porcini mushrooms
Keven,
I live in Riceland/Mosquitoland
... now in the countryside farmers are about to soak rice fields with water, it seems a flooded land I have been grown up with much more risotto than pasta, to the point that now I can stand risotto just when I have the proper mood.
It has to be the milanese one (with saffron) BUT with also porcini mushrooms
passatdoc
Well-known member
We had an Italian-American family around the corner (complete with live-in grandmother in a permanent black dress who spoke not a word of English) from us, my sister and I were best friends and playmates with their three children. We were invited for supper every Wednesday for homemade pasta served with their homemade marinara sauce. Yummy, except then we never wanted any pasta that our German-American mother tried to make.
They also had the ubiquitous reproduction of Michaelangelo's "Last Supper" in a gold frame on the dining room wall. I don't know if many people in Italy have or had this art on the walls in the past, but it seemed to be nearly universal in San Diego Italian-American homes.
Last night, my sister (lives in San Francisco area) and her daughter flew to San Diego to tour several local universities, as my niece will be in her final year of secondary school next year. Immediately upon arrival at the airport, my parents took them to dinner at their favorite restaurant in Little Italy (five minutes from the San Diego Airport), Mona Lisa. The artwork on the walls consists entirely of framed photographs of weddings and First Communions of the family that owns the restaurant and market.
http://www.monalisalittleitaly.com/about.php
They also had the ubiquitous reproduction of Michaelangelo's "Last Supper" in a gold frame on the dining room wall. I don't know if many people in Italy have or had this art on the walls in the past, but it seemed to be nearly universal in San Diego Italian-American homes.
Last night, my sister (lives in San Francisco area) and her daughter flew to San Diego to tour several local universities, as my niece will be in her final year of secondary school next year. Immediately upon arrival at the airport, my parents took them to dinner at their favorite restaurant in Little Italy (five minutes from the San Diego Airport), Mona Lisa. The artwork on the walls consists entirely of framed photographs of weddings and First Communions of the family that owns the restaurant and market.
http://www.monalisalittleitaly.com/about.php
passatdoc
Well-known member
@favorit
Where do they get all the water to flood the rice fields? Are you near some major mountains?
As far as the mosquitos....when I was in medical school I remember reading that Italy historically had malaria in the old days. I would guess it was worse around the rice fields.
In Southern California, we have the Anopheles mosquito that can carry the disease, but two things are missing:
1. large bodies of slow-moving or stagnant fresh water. It's mostly salt water around here.
2. a pool of infected humans for the mosquito to bit and then spread the disease.
Several times in the 1980s, there were minor outbreaks among undocumented Mexican immigrant farm workers who were living covertly in makeshift camps in the countryside. San Diego County has several large lagoons (salt water) but where the creeks and small rivers empty into these lagoons, there is brackish water with a low enough salt content for mosquito larvae to survive. If enough of the farm workers were malaria carriers (contracted it in Mexico, then came here), it would cause small outbreaks late in summer. Many of these men were sleeping outside under trees with no mosquito protection, and suddenly a camp of 100 men all were ill with malaria.
Where do they get all the water to flood the rice fields? Are you near some major mountains?
As far as the mosquitos....when I was in medical school I remember reading that Italy historically had malaria in the old days. I would guess it was worse around the rice fields.
In Southern California, we have the Anopheles mosquito that can carry the disease, but two things are missing:
1. large bodies of slow-moving or stagnant fresh water. It's mostly salt water around here.
2. a pool of infected humans for the mosquito to bit and then spread the disease.
Several times in the 1980s, there were minor outbreaks among undocumented Mexican immigrant farm workers who were living covertly in makeshift camps in the countryside. San Diego County has several large lagoons (salt water) but where the creeks and small rivers empty into these lagoons, there is brackish water with a low enough salt content for mosquito larvae to survive. If enough of the farm workers were malaria carriers (contracted it in Mexico, then came here), it would cause small outbreaks late in summer. Many of these men were sleeping outside under trees with no mosquito protection, and suddenly a camp of 100 men all were ill with malaria.
I'll
let favorit explain about how scarce and hard to find water is in Northern Italy...
(they wish)
I've frequently been in Southern Europe for several weeks at a time. Inevitably, at some point in the trip, someone goes through the streets posting notes and little three-wheeled autos run around with loud-speakers telling everyone that the evening of so and so day, pesticides against mosquitoes are going to be sprayed and for everyone to keep their kids inside, cover foods, wash fresh vegetables, etc.
The Italians, Greeks and folks in Croatia seem to do it every other week or so in mosquito season. I swear they also still use DDT, to hell with international agreements.
The further south in Italy you go, the worse a crime it is to spit in public and the more attention is paid to preventing all those nasty tropical fevers which are such a problem still in Northern Africa.
It's not a myth, Southern Italians and Greeks really do keep the cleanest houses on earth, really do wash their sidewalks outside their houses clean every morning and they know exactly why. Nobody in the South of Europe believes all this autism horse feathers about inoculating children against polio and diphtheria and all the other nasties...the moment the vaccines are available, the kids are protected. Subito! or faster.
Most Italians I know don't do the whole super Catholic 19th century art thing which all my Italian-American relations are still totally into. Cultures tend to freeze when people leave their mother-land - I strongly urge all "real" third and fourth generation "Italians" born in America to keep extremely open minds and still tongues when they come to Italy. The food will blow you away and so will the fact that Italy's infrastructure is light years ahead of the United States.
We have full human status in Italy, too - which says quite a bit about the control the Catholic church now has compared to her influence in the US.
let favorit explain about how scarce and hard to find water is in Northern Italy...
(they wish)
I've frequently been in Southern Europe for several weeks at a time. Inevitably, at some point in the trip, someone goes through the streets posting notes and little three-wheeled autos run around with loud-speakers telling everyone that the evening of so and so day, pesticides against mosquitoes are going to be sprayed and for everyone to keep their kids inside, cover foods, wash fresh vegetables, etc.
The Italians, Greeks and folks in Croatia seem to do it every other week or so in mosquito season. I swear they also still use DDT, to hell with international agreements.
The further south in Italy you go, the worse a crime it is to spit in public and the more attention is paid to preventing all those nasty tropical fevers which are such a problem still in Northern Africa.
It's not a myth, Southern Italians and Greeks really do keep the cleanest houses on earth, really do wash their sidewalks outside their houses clean every morning and they know exactly why. Nobody in the South of Europe believes all this autism horse feathers about inoculating children against polio and diphtheria and all the other nasties...the moment the vaccines are available, the kids are protected. Subito! or faster.
Most Italians I know don't do the whole super Catholic 19th century art thing which all my Italian-American relations are still totally into. Cultures tend to freeze when people leave their mother-land - I strongly urge all "real" third and fourth generation "Italians" born in America to keep extremely open minds and still tongues when they come to Italy. The food will blow you away and so will the fact that Italy's infrastructure is light years ahead of the United States.
We have full human status in Italy, too - which says quite a bit about the control the Catholic church now has compared to her influence in the US.
Marco ... scambio risotto con panzanella fatta come Dio comanda ! i piatti ... li fa meglio la Miele
Jim northern Italy is surrounded by the Alps. Western Alps have plenty of glaciers (e.g Mount Blanc one). Now rivers get their water from spring rains and snow melting, then since late May, when temp start increasing up there too, glaciers start melting and add further water. Oddly some rivers get high waters during heatwaves. This is the Mont Rosa that we share with the Swiss :
and this is the Po river receiving the Ticino/Tessin river from left bank
If all this water weren't enough, halfway from the Alps and the Po river there is the "springs belt" : that water flowing underground rises up when there are clay barriers. This water is always round 10-12°C. Back in the past it was also used to have fresh grass for cows during winter. There were special "greenhouse roof shaped" sloped meadows ("marcite") : this not-so-cold water was allowed to overflow from feed brooks on the edge of the meadow, so that the grass could grow up without any damage due to frost and snow; side drain brooks routed water away to the next meadow. Once the grass was high enought the watermen ("campee'") closed the watergates then mowed the fresh grass. This way each meadow was able to supply 10-12 cuts per year
As for malaria, our "dear" mosquitos aren't anopheles and however WHO declared that malaria has been eradicated from Italy since 1970. Some rare case occurrs to some tourists arriving from exotic countries :
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria#In_Italia
Jim northern Italy is surrounded by the Alps. Western Alps have plenty of glaciers (e.g Mount Blanc one). Now rivers get their water from spring rains and snow melting, then since late May, when temp start increasing up there too, glaciers start melting and add further water. Oddly some rivers get high waters during heatwaves. This is the Mont Rosa that we share with the Swiss :
and this is the Po river receiving the Ticino/Tessin river from left bank
If all this water weren't enough, halfway from the Alps and the Po river there is the "springs belt" : that water flowing underground rises up when there are clay barriers. This water is always round 10-12°C. Back in the past it was also used to have fresh grass for cows during winter. There were special "greenhouse roof shaped" sloped meadows ("marcite") : this not-so-cold water was allowed to overflow from feed brooks on the edge of the meadow, so that the grass could grow up without any damage due to frost and snow; side drain brooks routed water away to the next meadow. Once the grass was high enought the watermen ("campee'") closed the watergates then mowed the fresh grass. This way each meadow was able to supply 10-12 cuts per year
As for malaria, our "dear" mosquitos aren't anopheles and however WHO declared that malaria has been eradicated from Italy since 1970. Some rare case occurrs to some tourists arriving from exotic countries :
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaria#In_Italia
Bread Salad!
favorit, I am TRYING to stay on a diet!
Did you have to mention that!
Yeah, right, substitute risotto for it and that will make things much better.
Sigh.
So here with the recipe!
gods - is there anything better on this earth than freshly baked salt-free Italian bread dipped in a hearty olive-oil, sprinkled with freshly ground pepper?
favorit, I am TRYING to stay on a diet!
Did you have to mention that!
Yeah, right, substitute risotto for it and that will make things much better.
Sigh.
So here with the recipe!
gods - is there anything better on this earth than freshly baked salt-free Italian bread dipped in a hearty olive-oil, sprinkled with freshly ground pepper?
"they wish" ... LOL
Keven actually you're right.....
Once a english lady I know warned her parents (that were supposed to come down here by car on Halloween Eve) we had plenty of fog forecasted here.
They answered her "don't worry, you know we're already used to London fog." Once they got to Milan, they told their daughter next time they would buy a radar to drive in foggy northern Italy, cause a garmin was not enough *LOL*.
This is Milan downtown in january ... go figure how could it be out in the countryside ... you can't spot your own nose *LOL*
Sometimes we actually wish it. Cross fingers it's not the case since some year.
In this town they are so used to floods, that when there's a flood forecast, everyone ties up the boat on the balcony, ready to go out for shopping and whatever else in place of the car.
This happens everytime all southern Swiss flush their toilets in the meanwhile *LOL*
Actually the Lake Maggiore west coast (that we share with the Swiss) is the most rainy place in the whole alpine range.
I'm glad to live in a town raised 30 meters over the river. Even after a diluve here we are totally safe
Usually it's like that :
Keven actually you're right.....
Once a english lady I know warned her parents (that were supposed to come down here by car on Halloween Eve) we had plenty of fog forecasted here.
They answered her "don't worry, you know we're already used to London fog." Once they got to Milan, they told their daughter next time they would buy a radar to drive in foggy northern Italy, cause a garmin was not enough *LOL*.
This is Milan downtown in january ... go figure how could it be out in the countryside ... you can't spot your own nose *LOL*
Sometimes we actually wish it. Cross fingers it's not the case since some year.
In this town they are so used to floods, that when there's a flood forecast, everyone ties up the boat on the balcony, ready to go out for shopping and whatever else in place of the car.
This happens everytime all southern Swiss flush their toilets in the meanwhile *LOL*
Actually the Lake Maggiore west coast (that we share with the Swiss) is the most rainy place in the whole alpine range.
I'm glad to live in a town raised 30 meters over the river. Even after a diluve here we are totally safe
Usually it's like that :
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