Ideas why Miele W1 might be tripping waterproof error?

[sgt10]

My W1 gave a “call for service/waterproof system” error last week. Miele Tech came to service, and noticed that I had a few suds errors in the past. He speculated that suds overflowed and caused the water sensor float to trigger shutting down the machine. In the end, by the time he came for service (1 week after the waterproof system error), the machine started up again (he thought water in the bottom drip pan dried out, so the float no longer shut off the machine.

I typically use very low detergent (Twindos 1 is set to 18 ml, Twindos 2 is set to 14 ml, and this despite my very hard water ). When I add detergent manually, I use one tablespoon max. It’s true that I wash rags in the machine from time to time, and I bet the soap and chemicals in these rags are what might have triggered past suds errors.

Long story short, the tech left without doing anything besides telling me to not use so much soap.

Well, less than one week later, the machine has again shut down with the same error code. I have kept a very close eye on it, and there was no oversudsing at all during this time period. Same error code: call for service/ water proof error.

This time, I put a fan in front of the machine, and about 12 hours later I was able to get it to work again, when in the second load (using virtually no detergent), it stopped and with wild incessant beeping announced yet another call for service / waterproof system error.

I did call for service, and the tech on the phone said he couldn’t imagine what was going wrong (again questioning my detergent practices). He absolutely ruled out a faulty sensor (“impossible”).

He is going to send the same tech out again, but I am concerned without any further direction or ideas, the machine will have dried out, and it will start, and we will get nowhere.

 

[henene4]

Actually never seen a faulty float switch.
It is literally just a piece of styrofoam and a physical switch. Not much to go wrong.

Anything you did in connection with the errors?
Cleaning the drain filters can cause such an error if you aren't carefull and spill to much water into the cabinet.

Otherwise these systems usually really just trip when something goes wrong.
And slow leaks are pretty easy to spot as well.

One trick (though somewhat harsh on the technician so he can't just leave): Like 2 - 3 hours before he arrives, turn on the machine and check if the error persists.
If not, just run rinse cycles with no spin until it does appear again.

 

[brisnat81]

The only time I’ve tripped the switch was on a W3933 that had failed bearings. On a really sudsy load, it’d leak and then stop till it dried out.

The only other thing could be an oversuds, but if there is water in the sump there is probably a leak.

 

[combo52]

The sensor could be bad [ float & Switch ] I have seen far simpler devices fail.

Or Bypass the stupid flood sensor system or get a real FL washer like a SQ that is not so finicky if you really need to do laundry.

John L.

 

[sgt10]

Henene4- you asked "Anything you did in connection with the errors?
Cleaning the drain filters can cause such an error if you aren't carefull and spill to much water into the cabinet"

Although I have cleaned the filters in the past, it's probably been a couple of months, so no, I can't really figure out anything unusual that I have done. And I have't been washing soap filled rags, nor have I added too much detergent. In fact, on one of the two wash loads I was able to do before the error shutdown everything again, I discovered the TwinDos container was empty and the wash load ran without any detergent (I checked level after noticing laundry wasn't smelling as fresh as it should post wash). The Miele techs (both on the phone and on site) seem stuck on focusing on detergent.

The machine is 11 months old, during which time I have certainly made full use of it on lots of different cycles. So having the bearings go out would seem too soon, but I suppose possible, although I haven't seen any other sign of that.

It's currently in error mode (didn't dry out even with an overnight fan), but I definitely want it that way for the techs's visit tomorrow so he can't walk away with another admonition about detergent.

 

[henene4]

Yeah, there is a tiny little gap between the cabinet and the face plate of the pump housings.

If you open the filters to quickly or don't have that flap down completly or heck just plain up are unlucky, water can drip along the pump face plate and into the drip pan.
And as there should be never any water in the cabinet bottom, the switch is designed to activate pretty early to catch leaks as soon as possible.

One of the actual service tech advices across all brands over here is that if your washer gives you a water protection error code and you recently did anything like cleaning the pump filter you should tilt the washer forward about 45 degrees so that any water in the bottom pan can run out.
Then try again.

If you just managed to get water in your machine by accident you saved yourself a lot of headache.
Otherwise service is necessary.

And honestly, combo, which simpler device then a switch?

These WaterProof systems have probably saved billions in water damages over here.
If you install a machine without a protective hose (be it DW or washer) in a rental most insurances will not cover damages if they are caused by these appliances.

If a washer is leaking (which this one most definetly is) I'd rather have it stop by itself.
I'd take this possibility of a 1 in 100000 chance of a false allert (which btw again I never once heared of - in a country that has such systems on most machines from the upper BOL range on) over a flooded house or flat.

 

[aquarius1984]

Attitude issues

Ok Combo52 we hear you. You don’t like the European way of doing anything. Make a thread, tell us all and then we can be done with it.

We can pick fault with most American ways, especially your washers. By euro standards it appears you’ve never had a properly automatic washer or dishwasher in America until euro machines were imported. It’s clear you’ve only ever had automatic rinsing machines given the amount of baby sitting, stain treating, pre washing, soaking and other mollycoddling required by use of laundry additives and stain removers.

Real washing machines, real dishwashers. LOL.

Back on topic, OP is it possible that the water is coming from a leaky internal hose or cracked soap dispenser housing/ cavity? Another member here found this to be the case with his.

 

[sgt10]

Thank you, I will ask about leaky internal hose possibility and take another look at the soap dispenser.

Henene4 - when you say slow leaks are easy to spot, do you mean to say that I would observe some water in the floor or elsewhere, or do you have something else in mind?

Does anyone think it’s possible that if the outgoing drain hose was impeded/met too much resistance by a blockage somewhere in my house drain system, it could back up the water in the machine and show up as a leak? I have very little idea of how these things might work, so am trying to explore all possibilities.

The first time the Miele tech person came to “repair” the machine, I believe that Miele Technical Services (who I called to arrange the appointment) sent him some spare parts to install, hoses I think (their standard response to the Waterproof error). He did not install any new parts and instead had a discussion with me about detergent levels. (Followed by a discussion of how most Americans did not know how to use their machines properly, and could only use one cycle, followed by his announcement that in the future Miele would be simplifying North American machines since we apparently rely solely on the Normal setting, followed by his recommendation to use the table linens/curtains setting for my bed sheets). It was a lot to take in for one service call.

 

[combo52]

Water leak detection systems

In dishwashers and automatic washers.

These things go off constantly when there’s no real leak it’s the most common service call on Bosch dishwashers and Fisher Paycal dish drawers in this country by a long shot.

Very seldom is there any serious leak just a little bit of water under the machine which would never have caused a problem with the dishwasher or damage to the home compared to a dishwasher that did not have the system.

Washing machines and dishwashers very seldom call series floods in a home And Our home should be built properly to contain and control leakage.

There is no possibilityThat billions of dollars of damage has been saved by These troublesome and expensive system’s. .

You guys should get out in the real world and actually work on appliances and see what goes wrong with them.

John

 

[henene4]

@sgt10

As I said, the inside of these machines should never see any water.

They'll get slightly dusty over time, not much more.

Any water running down any hose or surface will leave a trail and once dried, you'll see a pretty obvious white residue along that trail which you can just follow to the leakage area.

No, the drain backing up would not cause a leak inside the cabinet itself. Just a slow drain error.

My best guess is just some pinhole or loose hose clamp.

An combo52:

Yeah you no why there is little water in that machine?

CAUSE IT $%^&*( STOPPED DOING WHATEVER ASAP.

You are a technician. You should have that much of a grasp that you understand why these systems don't let a huge leak happen.

That is literally their only purpose.

And do you know how expensive water damage can get if you live in let's say a five floor appartment builduing and you live on the second floor?

Water gets through the walls and ceilings with a slow leak over a year or two, weakens structural elements, soaks structural walls, etc.

The only time someone finally notices is as their walls in the first floor get wet.

Now they start tearing open their walls, then the walls of the floor you live on, then they find the cause is you DW all along.

Thing is it's to late, all the walls are no longer deamed sound from a structural perspective and EVERYBODY in that house has to move out immediatley.

Damages for that kind of situation start in the millions. That's 1000 of such admittedly rare cases over the 30+ years these systems exist.

Even if it would he "just" a "We have to redo all your kitchen flooring plus dry pout the ceiling from the person below you and redo that" you look at damages in the xxk thousands of what ever money we are talking about.

And these systems are ecpensive??? NO?

They are literally 1 switch and maybe (more often then not not even) 1 extra valve.

Plus a piece of styrofoam and a few caboes plus a plastic hoising for the hose.

Actually, on the Bosches you so despise apparently (for what ever reason, really) it not even is an extra valve (the hose valve is the main machine valve) AND it saved the level switch for wash chamber.

On Bosches - as you know - the overflow from the wash tank can go into sump area which means obersudsing can cause these to trigger.

Easy to diagnose that over the phone actually or at least narrow that down.

And OMG could you finally stop claiming that EVERYTHING is the most common issue on the Bosch DW.

Like, with every product you don't like.

Geeze, besides my mum you are the only true boomer I have ever had to deal with for a longer period of time.

I'm somewhat happy you only serve one city over there.

Learn about technology first, then try to blame it on it.

 

[jerrod6]

Diagnosed by Laptop Software

Miele provides diagnostic programs on the Laptop the technician should have had. The Laptop connects to the front panel of the machine via an optical interface found on the spot just above and to the right of the word TwinDos on the display panel and the software is able to read out all of the information saved in the Electronic module of the machine. The Module records all information about the components of the machine and the tech can even have the machine running and watch how the components are performing in realtime.

On my previous Miele washer, the cold water intake flow had slowed down. My neighbors had experienced similar issues with their other brands of washers and we figure it has something to do with our hard water that seems to make fill valves malfunction after several years. Knowing this, when I called for service I mentioned the problem might be the fill valve. When the technician arrived he connected the laptop to the machine and began scrolling through the information. When he came to the water intake fault he clicked on it. This took him to a picture of the inside of the machine showing the part that caused the fault outlined in red. He replaced the cold water fill valve.

I would call Miele customer service and request that the machine be diagnosed using the laptop software Miele provides to its registered technicians, instead of having the tech standing there trying to guess what is wrong. I think the tech should have done this in the first place.

On the below picture if you look to the upper right side of the black display panel above the word TwinDos you will see a clear circle. This is the area that the laptop will use to connect to the machine.

 

[sgt10]

Jerrod- yes, I believe that is ALL the tech did. He hooked up his laptop and read off all of the error codes in the 11 month life of the machine. He found F10, F15,f16,F69, F104, F138. I think the water intake error came during initial install (or a day later). Some of the error codes must relate to extra suds when I washed the detergent laden rags. Not sure about the others. He delivered his speech about detergent, and then left.

What he did not do is open up the machine, or install any of the replacement parts that Miele sent him. I guess he thought they were incorrect or not necessary. He is coming back today. The machine is still in error mode, so maybe he will take further action this time.

 

[sgt10]

Jerrod- also, that’s a good tip about the fill valves. My water is extremely hard here, so perhaps that has some impact on the internals (although admittedly the previous w4840 did not have a problem - although it did have other problems that led to its ultimate demise).

 

[sgt10]

Henene4- thank you. it sounds like I should try my best to get the tech to open the machine and take a look, which he did not do last time.

 

[henene4]

Looking up on Google

So, F10 is a water intake error.

F15 is the warm water intake error.

F16 is the oversuds error triggered when the main wash is already sensed as oversudsed (turns of heater, more rinses, etc.).

F69 is a faulty recirculation pump.

F104 is a motor issue related to undervoltage.

F138 is the WaterProof float switch error.

My best guess is that F10+F15 are install related fault codes, F16-F104 are related to some REALLY heavy over suds codition.

F138 is your leakage issue.

 

[sgt10]

Thank you!

I will have to wait to find out more as Miele Tech canceled on me today (very frustrating after staying home waiting).

Do you think I should be concerned about the recirc pump error?

 

[henene4]

Not really. Happens on occasion.

 

[launderess]

Welcome To Wonderful World Of Miele Appliance Ownership.

Welcome to the club, I like to call it "good morning heartache, sit down..".

Without meaning to give offence, MieleUSA at times seems to embody the worse traits of German stubbornness.

You call customer service/tech support reporting an issue. After describing the problem you get "no, that cannot be happening, the machine/appliance does not do that".

Should you insist that issue is indeed occurring Miele's next response will be "what you done to the machine/appliance?". When pushed further " you must have used too much detergent" or "you don't know how to operate the washer...", "you used incorrect product....".

When all is said and done an appointment for a call out is made. This will likely be one, two, three or more weeks off. Meanwhile you may or may not have use of said appliance.

On appointed day tech arrives and there are several outcomes.

He examines appliance and lo/behold it *IS* doing what was reported, but tech cannot pin point why.

Or, appliance is doing what was reported but tech cannot do repair atm due to lack of parts, time or whatever.

Or, appliance isn't acting up at that moment, and you cannot duplicate the problem for tech to see.

In any event you now have to pay out for service call.

If machine needs repair *and* tech can do the work another future date will be booked. Again this can be one week, two, three.... Heaven help you if tech doesn't have parts needed in his stash. That means parts will have to be ordered from New Jersey if in stock. If they aren't you'll have to wait for next shipment from Europe. Again either way you may be without use of appliance for another week, two, etc... until part or parts arrive, *and* tech can once again book you in.

MieleUSA's weakness has always been lack of a serious nationwide tech/repair service fleet. If one lives in NYC/NJ/PA or Conn area (all close to Princeton, NJ), then things may be slightly better. But further away one goes pickings can be slim.

IIRC a member from MA had a service call from a Miele tech who drove all the way up from NJ.

 

[rolls_rapide]

The Miele leak...

I was wondering, based on what I once read (possibly on here, yonks ago), that a certain model or series of Miele had a 'dispenser-to-tub hose' which was problematic. Basically, it rubbed a hole in itself, due to tub movement.

The service pack solution was to install the new hose, but also to cut off/file away a plastic hook or nub, which was supposed to keep the hose captive, but ultimately caused the problem in the first place.

And that sounds typical of the state of service departments these days - blame the customer and do as little as possible.