Ideas why Miele W1 might be tripping waterproof error?

[sgt10]

Diagnosis from Miele tech so far

Laundress- you have pretty accurately described my experience. After canceling on me last week (for waterproof system problems that started on Oct 18, resulting in a tech visit one week later and an admonition to stop using so much soap), I had my second tech visit today. This time (different tech) opened the machine (after first telling me it was most likely too much detergent, but then when he hooked up his computer he found 34 new waterproof system errors but zero oversudsing errors, he finally conceded there MIGHT be a leak. After about an hour and a half of hunting, he found lots of water in the machine’s drip pan, but no obvious leak anywhere.

A call to his supervisor produced the suggestion to take the top off, put the front of the machine back on, and examine the area of the detergent dispenser while doing a standard (not a test cycle).

During the first 6 seconds or so of a cycle, water runs down the glass front of the machine, I guess to tell the user “hey, I’m on, and using water.” Then the water path switches to actually send water to flush out the dispenser and move the detergent to the tub.

He found water dripping from the top during that first 6 seconds of the cycle. Not when the water switched to the dispenser, just when running over the glass door. It was the “show off phase” that created the problems. Probably a bad seal from the very start of the machine’s life, but because so little water dripping each time, it took a while to accumulate in the drip pan and set off the water sensor.

Their proposed solution (and OF COURSE they did not have the part with them: replace the water path control unit. When? Who knows. It just depends.

So it’s been three weeks now of no washer and taking laundry elsewhere to wash.

I was thinking wistfully of my Maytag Neptune front loader (pre-whirlpool ) which I gave to a friend but is still operating without a hitch 16 years after I bought it.

 

[sgt10]

By the way, I am not completely convinced with Miele’s explanation. Is it reasonable that 10 drops or so of leaking per laundry cycle can really fill up the drain pan enough over time to trip the water sensor? I live in a desert/dry environment.

I did get to see the dripping in action. It lasted 6 seconds before the water diverted and the dripping stopped.

 

[launderess]

How old is this washer anyway?

If relatively new and under warranty (or maybe not),I'd go up the food chain and get a new washer from Miele. That or you shouldn't be charged for call out or repair.

Tell Miele you're fed up and stress this is a new washer which shouldn't be having these sort of issues.

Don't be fobbed off to or by a minor functionary. Let them know you mean business.

 

[mrboilwash]

The residue in the drip pan doesn`t look like plain water to me.
Do you have iron or anything else yellowing in your water supply?
Would be interesting to know if there is a slippery feel to this residue which would suggest detergent residue and maybe an additional leak as you suspect.

I have a much older Miele model and occasionally it happens that I misjudge the degree of soiling and then end up with a lit up oversuds light. But in all those years I`ve had the washer there wasn`t a single waterproof error.
Have to say the light only did come on when several attempts to spin failed and an extra rinse was added. However I`ve never had an oversuds situation so bad that suds would pour out of the detergent dispenser and then possibly find their way over the pump housing into the drip pan.

You mention a few seconds of a show off phase at the beginning of the wash cycle. I was wondering if the newer Mieles don`t fill in the rinse cycles the same way anymore. Mine does and of course it takes much longer than 10 seconds. The purpose is to keep the door glass and boot free of detergent residue.
The reason for doing this at the start of a cycle could be to avoid detergent loss, but this doesn`t make sense because there is a valve in the suds container which is always closed unless the pump runs. I believe I have read somewhere this is done to avoid the squeaking sound that dry clothes can make on the door glass at the start of a cycle when loaded to full capacity.

 

[paulc]

The same thing happened with my W1

My W1 started showing the waterproof error when it was less than a year old. It would reset itself after a couple of days but I’d only be able to get a load and a half done before the fault showed again and the machine would abort the cycle. It wasn’t until the second engineer visit that he discovered the dispenser housing was warped and there was a very small crack in it, causing a slow leak into the machine. The housing was replaced and no more waterproof errors have occurred.

 

[sgt10]

The machine is 11 months old and under warranty. I have not been charged for the visits or the upcoming repair. Of course, the flip side is that I have had a sporadically working washer for the past 3 plus weeks, I have been taking laundry to another location, strategically plotting how often I can change sheets, etc., and have now completely rearranged my schedule and taken time off work on 3 separate days (one of which they didn’t show up) for the repair visits. And I will have to do the same another time when they receive the part and come back to install. I have been on the phone numerous times with Miele in NJ, I have had to argue with schedulers for appointments, and I have had to accept laundry humiliation from Miele techs telling me I didn’t know how to do laundry (just like other American users).

Would I be better off arguing for a new machine? Perhaps. I’m not sure I have the energy left because it surely won’t be easy. One thing I did consider briefly was receiving credits towards purchase a Little Giant (credit meaning they credit me the full price of the W1). But I would have to argue that, too. And then I would have to organize an electrician. There is an old electric dryer outlet that could potentially be used (my existing Miele dryer is gas, so I don’t need the outlet), but I would have to make sure it still works as it probably predates our house purchase and remodel. In any case, that strategy sort of feels like doubling down. Miele washers and dryers do seem like an awfully lot of trouble. But maybe every washer these days with similar washing performance (are there any machines that wash as well?) are a lot of trouble.

I had a long fight with Miele when I first purchased the machine because it doesn’t function as described in the manual (I can’t use the front panel controls to select both a prewash and an extra rinse at the same time (same cycle). There is a way to do it using the Miele WiFi app on one’s phone, but I didn’t want to go down that path). I might as well have been talking to a block of wood. Extremely stubborn and unresponsive, to say the least, so I am not eager to start another confrontation.

Mrboilwash- I should have checked the water before they vacuumed it up, but it did not occur to me. I can tell you that my water is extremely hard, so I’m wondering if some of the minerals precipitated out.

 

[jerrod6]

This is a brand new machine that has had a leak probably from the beginning. I would ask for a new one.

I had one of the larger Miele T98XX gas dryers years ago and it kept having the same problem for over 2 years and every time the tech came out he was unable to find anything wrong. After the third time with this same problem, I called Miele and started whining loudly. After 1 minute of this, they decided to give me a brand new machine. By this time the new models were out and that is what they gave me at no cost. Also, mention that you have been without a machine for 3 weeks.

It's worth a try.

 

[combo52]

An Overly Completed Way To Get Laundry Done

The brown stain is rust from the steel bottom panel, If the machine had not had this silly system you would have seen this leak long ago and gotten the machine fixed, in any case there would have been no interruption of your laundry.

 

On a SQ FL the whole lower panel is removable with just two exposed screws and you can see what is going on easily.

 

Miele machines are VERY GOOD well designed and BUILT washers, But they are complex and expensive to service and to troublesome if you Really need to do a lot of laundry and only have one machine.

 

I like to compare them to owning a Mercedes Benz in the United States, the only difference is Miele service is also very expensive and there is almost no after market service for Miele appliances unlike owning a MB. where there are lots of shops that will fix an older MB.

 

Every week when I look over the appliance discard pile at the largest independent appliance seller in the DC area I see Miele washers and dryers and lots of Miele  DWs that people have given up on the still look great. We have picked up a number of them over the years and had fun fixing them and learning about them, we end up giving them away to appliance friends as I would never sell one to a customer.

 

Any used appliance we sell to a customer we expect it to have a serviceable life of at least 10 years, hopefully without big expensive problems.

 

 Experience from an appliance Boomer , LOL

 

John L.

 

[mrboilwash]

Rust from the steel panel... Of course. I could have thought of that myself, but sometimes the most logical explanation just doesn`t occur to me. It looked like rotten detergent residue to me but couldn`t explain the color.

Still wouldn`t say the system is silly. Too many Europeans living in a multistory building in the past have had the pleasure to discover their apartment doors broken up by the fire department because of a serious water damage on several floors below. This silly system can do so much more for you than just hiding a minor leak. Just think of a burst fill hose. Not much fun at all.

But then again there is a reason why appliances are designed for the needs and expectations of the market they are intended to be sold.
As I understand it most American multilevel buildings rule out private washers anyways, so there`s little need for a complicated water leaking protection system.

 

[bewitched]

it can’t be rust. the rust is not yellow and the steel pan doesn’t catch rust in ages of leakings let alone on a new machine. i saw many miele machines years old with evident traces of leakings but no one had rust.

 

[jerrod6]

I wonder if it is some kind of Lubricant that was used in the manufacturing process. Under normal conditions, the parts would not come in contact with water.

I was thinking about this amount of water in the bottom and realized that the spray over the glass technique is not just used at the beginning of the wash. Some of the rinses do the entire fill using the glass spray. I think it is done to rinse away any suds that may be on the glass. I know that the last rinse takes two 10 second shots of water through the fabric softener dispenser and then the rest of the water enters the drum using the spray over the glass method.

 

[combo52]

Brown-Yellow Stain

Thats Rust, this type of galvanized steel will rust in just a few weeks if it keeps getting wet, seen it many times.

 

John L.

 

[mrboilwash]

Come to think of it if it was grey water mixed with detergent and soil from the clothes the stench would probably be unbearable in no time at all.

 

[sgt10]

Update on leaking washer

It’s been over a week since Miele service visit where they discovered the leak. To date, they have not contacted me to set up a new service appointment to replace the part they claim is the problem.

Meanwhile, I have written to their quality assurance group outlining the problem and requesting a new machine. No answer yet, so this morning I contacted technical services again. A supervisor informed me that the part was backordered but arrived yesterday, and he could schedule another service visit to install it.

I told him (and in the end the discussion was rather heated) that I had heard the same story since October 18 and it was now November 14. Nirvana, according to Miele, is always just one service visit away. My machine is in error mode and not working. I told him I wanted a new machine, and for an 11 month machine to spend 1 month out of service was unacceptable. If I was sure that this proposed fix would work, perhaps my response would have been different. But I am far from convinced.

And there things sit.

 

[lorainfurniture]

This thread outlines exactly why you shouldn’t buy low volume high end appliances. As a technician I can tell you this about your fancy designer washer

1. My service rate just doubled
2. You are waiting a month for the part
3. If you are out of warranty the first repair will be 75% of your purchase price.
4. You have basically no choice as I’m the only person willing to fix your odd appliance.

I hope you do get this resolved soon.

 

[sgt10]

Do you have an opinion about the best front loader that’s not a “fancy, designer appliance ?” By best, I mean best at gently cleaning my clothes. I am not interested in the water and power conservation features. I want to be able to safely wash everyday towels and sheets, as well as delicates, wool and silk. When I moved to my first front loader, away from a top loader with agitator, I liked how much cleaner my clothes were getting and how gentle the machine was on clothing. That was a Maytag Neptune 7500, and of course, not an option anymore.

 

[combo52]

Best FL washer

Everyone here knows what I think the best longest lived and essayist to service FL washer is.

A Speed Queen FL washer is proven to outlast 2 or 3 of any other FL washer available for home use.

If a SQ FLer does not meet your needs I would buy TWO WP-MT or even TWO LG FL washers with two good average machines you should be able to keep your laundry moving.

John L.

 

[sgt10]

Update on Miele negotiation

I guess I won’t be in the market for a new washing machine after all. Miele has agreed to replace the machine with a new machine. Timing to be determined.

 

[combo52]

Best FL washer

This is good news, but also tells how difficult it is to fix this high-end stuff if the manufacturer can't even diagnose and fix their own products in a timely manor, hopefully you will have better luck with a another one.

One thing for sure Miele can well afford to replace failed machines when you consider how over priced they are.

John L.

 

[sgt10]

Yes, I do feel like kind of a chump sometimes for doubling down on Miele.