Incandescent light bulb BAN goes into effect next week

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Seems LPS was promoted some in the US early 1980s-the 3 '82 vintage fixtures I have are wallpacs made by Verd-a-ray with original Holland Philips-Norelco bulbs.A fourth 18w SOX fixture I have was made in 1999 and UK made Philips bulb.Europe seems to going to LED lately-a little cheaper to run possibly,but really ghastly performance and color-good that they usually dim out noticably after as few as 9 months :) Optics are usually really bad with the LED lamps too.
 
Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.
I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.
As they age they are more likely to explode.
If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.
Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.
The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.

And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.

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Yes,have some of the Venture Pulse Start formed arc tube lamps in my collection.The ceramic arc tube lamps are better and more efficient.Plus even more stable.Other lamp makers have tried to duplicate the Venture design without success.Venture is going to LED now.Don't know if they still make the formed arc tube bulbs andd ballasts.
 
Agnotology

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Those old HPS and other bulbs that need a transformer are kind of scary.

 

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Many of them get away with a simple reactor. No transformer needed.

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The transformer makes noise so right there that's a big no for me.

 

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Rarely audible when of quality make and installed correctly in the fixture. 

 

 

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I have seen situations where the transformer literally leaked substance, probably some type of toxic oil.

 

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That would be a potted ballast typical of fluorescent troffers. Ballasts in outdoor HID fixtures are almost always core and coil. Iron with a coil wrapped around it has nothing to leak.

 

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And the bulbs are not stable. They will lose their intensity as they age.

 

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HPS and LPS has some of the best lumen maintenance of any light source. Over driven LEDs have some of the worst lumen maintenance. 

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As they age they are more likely to explode.

 

 

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Only applies to type E quartz Metal Halide lamps. HID and LPS rarely if ever explode.

 

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If they have unstable electric surges they can explode from over heating.

 

 

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An 80 watt mercury vapor lamp can tolerate a 5,000 watt surge. The voltage to drive that level of current through an inductive ballast would long ago fry the electronics in a LED driver.

 



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Plus, you have to keep track of how many hours the bulb has been in operation and religiously change them out before they go bad.


 

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Much the opposite. HPS and LPS simply stop emitting light when their lumen output drops below 80%.

 

LED on the other hand tends to get dimmer and dimmer beyond their rated useful life.  

 

 

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The large bulb size along with the transformer makes them a bulky choice.

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Not really a concern until you get into high wattage LPS over 90 watts.


           And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves.

 

 

No such requirement exists for screw in HID lamps. 

 

 

Tell me you don't understand HID technology without telling me you don't understand HID technology.

 

Tell me you're citing LED agnotology without telling me you're citing LED agnotology.

 

Most everything you read online comparing LED to every other lighting technology is mendacious propaganda propped up by blatantly incorrect information.

 

[this post was last edited: 8/5/2023-05:37]
 
Most high wattage HPS,mercury,MH use actual transformers-the regulation is better and they are more efficient.Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.Ballasts today are not oil filled-they are often potted in non flammable epoxy that is heat conductive.
Ceramic Metal Halides are another that can explode or rupture at EOL-but is extrremely rre-these also run off electronic square ballasts run at low frequency-120Hz.No flicker!I run CMH at home! Love their light-LED life can be unpredictable esp when the LED elements are driven hard to get quality light.This also can make their driver-ballasst run hot.
 
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Reactor ballasts are common for lamps running on 277 or 480V.

 

 

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Yup! But don't forget residential street lighting. 35-150 watt HPS lamps are typically 120 volt reactor driven.


 

 

I've always admired the size and cost difference between reactors and other types.

 

 

100 watt HPS Reactor ballast in Cobra:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3146921043...nRmn4bl6cyN4bIOck%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675
 

 

vs

 

 

100 watt HPS Multi Tap CWA ballast in a Cobra:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3146787524...uiMciurDYSa95g%3D%3D|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2047675
 

 

 
 
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
“And then there is the oil on our hands issue. One isn't supposed to handle these bulbs without gloves“

What you are thinking about is most “high temperature bulbs” Where there is not a protective glass around the glass that heats up] that you do have to make sure it is really clean as the oil can sometimes cause contamination on the glass and when that is heated I’ve heard that IT can actually crack it, It’s basically a super powered version of the normal bulb which gets much hotter, generally that style of bulb just gave me cash such as metal halide or halogen, generally large metal halide bulbs can be fine if they are the kind that has a white phosphorus coating, The one that looks like an egg with a screw on the top
 
It's no surprise

Mercury Vapor bulbs are set to be eliminated per 2005 EPA rules change. I didn't know this but considering they use MERCURY, OMG!

And the transformers making noise- whether it's flourescent or these gased up bulbs, the noise is nearly always present. I mean it's been referenced in film numerous times.

One place I rented from had replaced all their street lights with LED bulbs that were clear, bright, came on instantly and made no noise....except for one lamp. I don't know why they missed that one but It flickered, the light was dull, and the noise it made. terrible.

My Dad had a 120' x 70' utility shed built years ago and given that he sold wholesale electric lighting, poles, and supplies to municipalities and contractors, he of course found it necessary to put in six of those heavy "industrial strength" type fixtures. When ever you'd turn the lights on in there it was accompanied by a slow start up to get full light and of course that hum noise.

Look at the size of that thing and that ballast. It needs to be hung hung with heavy chain because its heavy.

https://actionservicesgroup.com/blog/mercury-vapor-vs-led/
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Never cared for Sodium street lights, disliked the color quite a bit.  Mercury lights were a bit better, but still low on my list.  I preferred the good old standard Tungsten lights of years gone by but today I actually prefer the LEDs.

 

Funny, on the main road to my sub we have all three. Most are LED but for some reason they did not update 3 lights, 2 are still sodium and 1 mercury. Been meaning to call the utility and complain but have not yet.
 
Lamps that have quartz bulbs should not be handled with bare hands-esp high wattage-high pressure xenon lamps used in motion picture projection.These were used in fil 35/70 mm film projectors and IMAX projectors-up to 14kw water cooled.If one of these bulbs blow-can be a real mess.Reflectors and mirrors and other lamphouse parets will have to be replaced.And handling the bare bulbs-you have to wear face protection and a heavy coat.Glass outer bulbs-not a problem.
 
Play that link there for the vid’ while you read!

These are my prize incandescent bulbs, and I even have that lamp they’re in plugged into a cord switch with a dimmer—my desert island bulbs if I were able to keep at least one lighting structure with them:

— Dave



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Late Poster...

But I have to just honestly laugh, when I hear sheepish constituents say that any reduction in availability or restriction of a product is a good thing.

Regardless, Incandescent & Halogens have lots of uses that will be affected by the ill-formed change. One of the worst, is those with Private Wells in Cold Areas. For years, many of them used a simple light bulb to keep them from freezing.

That simple solution, will now be off the table - and replaced by a much more costly, and less-safe electric heating system.

One issue I personally have - is the LED Bulbs I have purchased, rather GE, Philips or Feit Electric - simply have not lasted. In many cases, I have had to replace them even faster than a normal bulb would have lasted. I've had to purchase way more expensive bulbs - negating the cost savings from electricity saved and low lifespan.

I also lost almost $150 -- negating a TON of "energy savings" when my garage door opener stopped working. The service call revealed the answer to that. Regular Incandescent or Halogen Bulbs only. Rough Service, preferred due to the vibration. LED Bulbs generate radio signals - which jam the remotes from working.

Lastly...

I have a two bulb lamp in my living room, with original GE Soft White Bulbs from 1996. They are still going to this day, even being left on for 3-4 hours a day. I refuse to change them, until they burn out. If I changed them with LED, I would probably already have gone through 2-3 sets in the last 5 years.

As someone who truly believes in Free Markets - I scuff at this nonsense. Americans will do what works best for them. They certainly do not need the governments hand to make their decision. Free Choice is the Ultimate Answer.
 
LED life

I kind of agree on the fairly short life of some LEDs. I put 4 glass LEDs in one of our bathroom fixtures, over the mirror, one of those with a U shaped glass shade in front. Only used less than probably one hour per day. I think they lasted 4 years and then one after the other they failed. I replaced them with more glass LEDs because those look better behind the glass. We have 100 watt equivalent LEDs in our living area for reading and those seem to last. Front porch lights have clear 60 watt equivalent bulbs on dusk to dawn control. Those lasted about 3 years. Replacements seem to be holding up. Couple of plastic LEDs in back of house fixtures switched on at night lasted about 5 years. I have CFLs in kitchen ceiling fixtures that have lasted about 30 years, only used occasionally.

Some remodeling fixtures do not have a replaceable bulb, I wonder how long those will last.

I just got a bulb for the back garage outside wall and it is a dawn to dusk bulb which seems to work. I had a bulb in a dawn to dusk control but it flickered wildly when going on. $10.

I do like the LEDs overall and know that they save energy. Some packages say how many hours they are supposed to last with 3 hours use per day, but with night time lighting that is more like 12 hours per day!
 
Any reduction in availability is bad

That's a very politically charged argument you are bringing up there.

Only thing I say there is:
If you can cut you lighting energy usage by 90% any other way - sure go ahead.

Sadly, you can't trust everybody to do that by themselves.

And unfortunately, we are kind of past the point where it's just about a single persons lighting choice.

To make an even more charged argument:

That way of arguing sounds a lot like what most people say who want on the other hand restrict access to SO MANY OTHER THINGS...

But that's besides the point.

Anyway, yes, there are cheap, terrible LEDs.

I have so far replaced 1 single LED bulb in my or my mothers living space in the past... 15 years?
And that was a Philips Hue bulb that became irresponsive - during the warranty period.

No body asks anybody to replace working lighting systems - but the 5 situations where the inefficiency of halogen or incandescent is actually a positive thing does not stand in ANY relation to the savings.
 
Halogen and incandescent lightbulbs

Using an incandescent lightbulb to keep Plumbing from freezing, is a very poor use of electricity for many reasons, number one it doesn’t work very well electric heating tape would be far better that has a thermostat that would run only as needed in the amount needed putting the heat where it is needed.

 

I wouldn’t want to rely on a lightbulb to keep expensive plumbing from freezing. The bulb could burn out at any time, kind of reminds me of my neighbor, who used to keep her Volkswagen diesel engine warm by putting 100 W lightbulb on it and covering it with a blanket at night in the winter , one day she looked out of her house window and the car was in flames because she got the blanket a little too close to the bulb that was the end of the car.

 

If you have two lightbulbs that you’ve been running four hours a day since 1996 assuming they’re 60 W bulbs you’ve already spent over $1000 in electricity how much more do you want to spend to prove a point , lol

 

It’s wonderful that we live in a free country where we can do foolish things, if we like, we all have our foolish things that we do, including myself, but I do think it’s the job of the government to regulate energy usage a large majority of Americans approve of this, including myself, and I vote for this type of regulation.

 

John
 
RE - Combo52

In regards to placing a blanket, on top of a light bulb. That has got to be the absolute worst idea I have ever heard in my life. Comparing Apples to Oranges, in that particular scenario is just silly. The same thing would happen if someone placed a blanket over a space heater, or used an extension cord for a high-voltage appliance.

Many of us have the basic common sense to know, that something getting warm (like a fabric) is a horrible thing, and to stop it before it becomes a issue.

In regards to the Heat Tape, I actually know someone who was extremely worried about the Fire Risk that came along with that and recommended the Light Bulb instead. The thing is... using a Light Bulb to prevent a well from freezing, is a time-proven strategy that has been used for decades.

Maybe it's a tad inefficient, but it's not like you are using it year-round. And it's proven. A Google Search returns tons and tons of results on this strategy. Plus, most people would realize if a Bulb went out. So there's that.

As for me... I will stick with my Soft White Light Bulbs, which use "excessive" electricity. I honestly do not care. According to my calculations, the cost to me is about $17 and 9 cents.

$17.09... in the grand scheme of things, is not really meaningful. I thoroughly enjoy the light I receive and I like that it goes on and on. Senseabilty & Worth are irrelevant things - to different people.

As for the Government. I stand by my statement. We need less government in our lives, not more... especially this administration. We do not need government overreach in Light Bulbs, Washing Machines, Gas Ovens, or vehicles.

If I want to pay more overtime for electricity because I enjoy the Light. That's my prerogative. The free market society we live in dictates the winners and losers. Obviously, most people have moved on.

Lastly, I want to correct your statement. The Majority of this Country DOES NOT support this crap. Most of the country didn't vote for this Administration, and his approval ratings are underwater - with less than 42% of the Country. To say otherwise is just foolish and wishful thinking.
 
Unfortunately...

You are once again, incorrect. In more ways than one.

For one thing, in 1996, the price per KWH was significantly lower than it is now. The cost was almost 1/3rd, and in the early 00's it was almost 1/2 the cost. So... your figures are incorrect.

Beyond that... there was not even widespread availability of other bulb replacements, in 1996. From my memory, which is still pretty good, around 1998, General Electric launched some Energy Saving CFL Bulbs. Those were the first CFLs for home use, that I remember. Philips launched a competing product, the following year.

Those Bulbs averaged almost $30-40 and would have barely fit at that in the shade. The other issue is... the cost of such bulbs made literally no economic sense at the time, nor would have if I had purchased them. There's also the fact, that they produced a ghastly, horrible hue of light. Nothing like the traditional Soft White or GE Reveal (Warm) I am used to.

It was not until 2008, in the middle of Housing Armageddon that the cost significantly dropped for Compact Fluorescents, making them sensible on a cost basis for consumers. Most of this was paid for by Power Providers & Government Grants. So... it was indirectly paid for by Consumers.

It was at that time, I purchased a large amount of CFLs to try out. With varying success.

Today, most of my home is run on LED. Just my garage door opener, a kitchen fixture, and a living room lamp run on traditional Incandescent or Halogen. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for your political sentiment. I will say this. I am an Independent. I am not registered with either party.

Having said that... those who observe the events of the past three years and assert that everything is going splendidly are unmistakably disconnected from reality. The polling data serves as a genuine reflection of the prevailing national sentiment for a reason. If you prefer, you are welcome to persist in embracing a grand illusion, but the truth remains unchanged.
 
Well there are a lot of points to consider when the heat from regular incandescent bulbs can be helpful although also a burning and even fire hazard…

What good then are LED bulbs without warmth if it can emit any safely where needed as in ice/snow-covered traffic lights and the lights on your car?

And most importantly bulbs that grow dimmer with further use which I’d certainly never noticed but live a short life as I’d seemingly replaced quite many of really both kinds…

And one of my outdoor light fixtures has an LED bulb in it with a day/night sensor that somehow keeps blinking… First that bulb was by my front door and eventually stayed on steady but I moved it by my side door and it won’t stop flashing…

Wish though nothing on politics or government had to be involved or it be mandated or enforced by!

And yes I associate that hot-spot glow somehow with an old song, that might have been playing while looking at old lamps which had those kinds of standard bulbs…

— Dave
 
Do you know what happened to this bulb?

The lamp it was in tipped onto the base of a swivel desk chair you’ll see…

I came home from work and smelled something burning or burnt, and seemingly just lifting that lamp off of the chair base wasn’t enough…

The residue from all that plastic which attached itself to the hot light bulb emits some mean, hazy smoke from there into the air…

— Dave

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Time to throw out the incandescent lightbulbs

You’re lucky you didn’t have a fire. This is one of the many reasons I have got rid of every incandescent lightbulb possible in my house and they go right in the trashcan.

It’s amazing how foolish people can be thinking they’re saving money by keeping old lightbulbs that use 10 times as much electricity.

Glad you and your home are OK

John
 
I have hoarded more light bulbs

I just loaded up on some more three-way incandescents at an estate sale last week.

Hate LED bulbs, even the best of them have a sick color temperature.

Outdoors light pollution is increasing problem now, people have their properties lit up like a night game at Yankee stadium every night, all night.
 
I’m really growing to like LED bulbs, especially the newer glass type with filament style LED. They look and light so much like incandescents that I can’t really tell the difference.

Longevity wise I have yet to see, I doubt the claims that they will last over 10 years or whatever are accurate, but I have not had any issues yet.

I do find some of these bulbs seem to not quite be optimized and can run quite hot. I’d like to see that improved, as well as pricing.

Have also tried the LED 3 way bulbs from Ecosmart, like them too. Would like to see a glass filament version of these as well.

I find the LED lighting color fine to my eyes if using the warm white temperature.

I think often when people think LED color, they are thinking of the daylight color which seems to be the most often used in streetlights and car headlights. I cannot stand that color indoors, it is awful, sterile, lifeless. I don’t buy those daylight color LED bulbs, but the warm white and soft white seem fine, indiscernible in one that I replaced a burned out incandescent with just recently even.

Did you know LED mogul based 3 way bulbs are now coming out for vintage floor lamps? Starting to see those too, haven’t gotten any yet, a bit pricey.

I am not sure that incandescent bulbs are gone yet, still see the 15 W GE ones in the store along with 250 W 3 way ones. I don’t understand why stores stopped selling 50/100/150 W and 30/70/100 W 3 way incandescents and started to stock 100/150/250 W instead.
 

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