Is it never HOT enough?

[kirk280980]

Regarding phosphates in the UK and Europe, about 6 months ago when I last used Persil tablets, they definitely still contained 15-30% phosphate - said so right on the box. It's quite possible that they still do, unless the formula has been changed VERY recently; next time I go shopping I shall have to check.

Impression I had was that phosphates were not banned in the UK at least, rather it was a case of laundry detergent manufacturers moving away from them somewhat due to market pressure and consumer demand. Many professional detergents are still packed with phosphates, yet are often sold where anyone can walk in off the street and buy them. And let's not forget dishwasher detergents either, the vast majority of which are around 1/3 phosphate.

Launderess, I think the problem some people have experienced with zeolites is that when they bind hardness minerals from the water, these can end up being deposited on the laundry in the form of tiny white flecks. Usually more of a problem when the machine is grossly overloaded or too frugal on water, both of which can prevent these particles being flushed away freely during the rinse.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Daniele;

Persil has 5-10% phosphonates (which is still a salt of phosphoric acid, similar to phosphates), and >>>more than 30%<<< phosphates. This is read off both the tablets and the powders (both non bio versions). My box of Surf tabs also read more than 30% phosphates. As Kirk said, phosphates aren't banned in the UK.

I have noticed zeolites deposited on darks, even with high level rinses, so I've had to resort to using liquid on darks (which obviously doesn't contain the white zeolite specks).

It seems that the new formulation of Ariel here doesn't contain phosphates (reading both off the box of powder and the liquid); but my box of tabs from a year ago reads phosphates on the ingredients list, so its likely the formula has been changed.

Regarding enzymes; I've found that they work well at any temperature. As I used to have fairly sensitive skin I had to use non biological (enzyme free) powders, but a few months ago I started to use Persil colour as my darks were beginning to fade, and I've noticed that using an enzyme product (especially on coloureds and darks) cleans so much better. However I still use non-bio on towels, more or less because it's a force of habit.

Take care all,

Jon

 

[kirk280980]

Jon,

Thanks for the further info, I wasn't aware that Persil powder still contained phosphates as it's been so long since I used it. If memory serves me correctly, Ariel changed over to zeolites something like 2 years ago, although their high suds powder was the last holdout, and still had phosphates until recently.

Liquids typically use citrate as a water softener, and it's because of this ingredient that they often give foamy rinses. This can give the impression that the clothes are not sufficiently rinsed, and I do admit it's a hard perception to shake off. Interestingly, P&G specifically tell you NOT to add a separate water softener to their liquid products, stating on the bottle that it is already included.

Apparently some clever things are being done with certain types of enzymes nowadays, which means they will work effectively even in cold/cool water. Read an article about this recently, but unfortunately can't remember where for the life of me. Perhaps this has some connection to the new 30*C performance claims for Ariel, and the recent introduction of Tide Coldwater in the US?

 

[MrX]

How white do you want things?!

What do you people do to your clothes ?

I've never really had the slightest problem getting any stains out nor have I ever had any problem with whites fading.

All I've ever used is a half scoop of Ariel, a miele washer and a spash of comfort "pure" fabric softener.

I can't really see the need for chlorine, ultra strong bleaches or boiling water.

I run towels, bed linen and the cat's bed through at 75 or 90C once in a while purely for the sake of killing bugs. (The cat's bed is designed to be washed at 95C (203F) and it does kill off any fleas!)

Everything else goes in at 30C (86F) or 40C (104F)

 

[toggleswitch]

You people?

LOL LOL LOL

LOVE that phrase...

Flashback => Archie Bunker.

We need a damn word in English for "You" (plural)
er, sorry folks south of Mason-Dixon line. "Y'all" is cute but may not quite work in scholarly pieces. LOL LOL LOL

FR=>Vous
SP=>Usted
GR=>Eseis

[HA a little Greek and French never killed anyone!]

 

[toggleswitch]

Yous =>

Brooklyn in the house, yo!

"Yous" ain't woikin neitha!!!

Say hi to "My Cousin Vinny" for me!!

 

[kenmore1978]

stains

"I ever had any problem with whites fading."

How does one "fade" whites?

"I've never really had the slightest problem getting out any stains. I can't really see the need for chlorine, ultra strong bleaches or boiling water."

Than obviously you've been lucky that the stains you've had to deal with didn't require those kind of treatments. Some stains do.

 

[lavamat_jon]

Jaune,

"How does one "fade" whites?"

'Faded' white are whites that have become dingy, usually due to lack of detergent power, and selection of an unsuitable cycle and inadequate washing time.

"Than obviously you've been lucky that the stains you've had to deal with didn't require those kind of treatments. Some stains do."

As I do the whole family wash, with a large variety of stains especially on whites (grass stains, caked in mud, tomato, curry, and, yes, excremement, and that's to mention only a few), all I've ever needed is a 50*C mainwash in Persil or Ariel biological, with a prewash in Ariel liquid. There's not been one stain I haven't been able to get out, so again this proves there isn't *any* need for bleach at all in the laundry. I've even tried oxy-bleaches (such as Oxi Clean, Ecover percarb) and whilst they do help slightly; they don't make any significant difference to washing powder used alone. I think again this demonstrates the ultimate cleaning power of heated frontloaders without the need for extra chemicals such as bleach. Only a hot wash (60*C) is really needed at the most for whites; but I aways run kitchen & bedlinen through at 75*C for hygiene reasons. I've never had to use the 95*C wash for clothes as of yet - I only use this cycle for cleaning the shower curtain, and, for performing the monthly maintenance wash programme to clean out the machine.

My whites have always been bright as long as I've washed them. Unfortunately, my mum still hasn't got the point that you can't get whites white on a 40*C quick wash with Surcare (a horrible liquid detergent sold here) laundry liquid...

Mrx,

Which variety of Ariel do you use? I presume the green biological version?

Take care all,

Jon

 

[MrX]

Jon:

Yeah, the normal green biological version of ariel "with quickwash action"

Or Persil (Bio) (Unilever)

Never found ANY need to use bleach on anything. Clothes always come out fine.

I even find the performance of Ariel and Persil colour perfectly acceptable on a normal wash with normal stains. It lifts: tea, coffee, chocolate, various oils and greece stains, grass, blood, etc without any trace.

I think the biological action of European powders is FAR FAR more pronounced though. The wash sollution is very concentrated, the enzymes are designed to work with the tempratures the machine uses and make use of the gently warmed up water and the longer wash time.

The results are outstanding though.

 

[Dishyjohn]

COSTCO has best powder

God to say I am always trying different powders, liquids and tablets - FOR WASHING MY CLOTHES!!! he he he But the best ever has to be the cheapest!
I now buy a huge barrel of wash powder made by Kirkland - says made in Canada on the tub, and I have to say it gives the best brightest wash ever, Even my mum exclaimed to me about how good it was without me prompting, and the best thing is its super concentrated AND CHEAP! Its the bargain price of about £7 and works so well, the Canadians sure know how to make powder!
I gota say i LOVE a good boil wash, nothing like freshly boiled white sheets hung out to dry and put on my bed - one of lifes luxerys.

I own a little portable Haier washer too - top loader, and I love to use that with english soap flakes, really makes a rich lather and cleans excellently - even tho it only rotates on the bottom of the tub, no pole aggitator.

 

[michaelman2]

Laundress/Snowy Bleach

Hey Laundress, what happened to Snowy Bleach?

 

[launderess]

Snowy Bleach?

Never really bother with the stuff as I use pure sodium percarbonate bleach from Ecover, but will take a look when doing the shopping tomorrow.

Maybe that Snowy has gone the way of many other laundry products which did not pull their weight. What with the plethora of "oxi" products out there, Snowy is hardly the only non-chlorine bleach.

Now if they would only bring back "La France" bluing/bleach I'd be a happy camper.

Launderess

 

[kenmore1978]

colorsafe bleach

I've been buying this prduct fromthe 99 Cent store called BLAST!

It's a combo of sodium percarbonate and borax

 

[launderess]

Oxygen Bleaches

Work best in an alkaline pH. This is why washing soda is normally added to sodium percarbonate/perborate bleaches. Borax is slighly less alkaline than washing soda, but will do the trick.

Launderess

 

[launderess]

And Another Thing

You want to look for a high ratio of oxygen bleach to alkaline (borax or washing soda). About 75% bleach to 25% alkaline substance is a good ratio.

Remember if one is using a good detergent (which is usually alkaline to slightly alkaline) or STPP (another alkaline substance), the the additon of washing soda or borax in the form of filler with oxygen bleach is not needed. This is why I just buy straight up Ecover bleach(100% sodium percarbonate).

Launderess

 

[toggleswitch]

Ecover Detergent

Laundress:

What do you think of Ecover's regular detergent?

Also read that to be frugal, some people grind up remaining small bars of bathroom "soap" and use them in the wash. [The small ones you'd normally throw away.] Anyone have any clue as to how much to use per a F/L wash?

I thought I'd try Ivory soap ground up in the wash, in that commercially available soap-flakes are hard to find in my area.

Thank you

 

[launderess]

Soap Flakes

Can be still found, do a search on Google. Think Vermont Country Store and a few other mail order sites have them.

Of course one can find vintage Ivory Snow or Lux soap on Fleabay, but usually they go for much more than the modern soap flakes mentioned above.

I save soap scraps in a jar next to the kitchen sink to make soap "goop" to use for washing hands. It is generally not a good idea to use bath/beauty soaps for laundry as many contain moisturisers and other chemicals not good for clothes.

You can also purchase any good olive oil soap like Savon de Marsielle to use in laundry.

Launderess

 

[toggleswitch]

L-

Thank you.

IMHO You and Venus are goddesses among swine.
(Myself first on that list. LOL)

 

[toggleswitch]

Attention Laundress and Venus

Ladies,

I'm trying to be nice (clean, and nice). A little positive reinforcement would be appreciated.

LOL

 

[toggleswitch]

Borax:

What is it exacltly and how best used?

All chime in, but this sounds right up Laundress' area of expertise