Is this a bad location for a dishwasher? -PICS-

[stephenk]

My girlfriend and I are buying out first house. It's an older home built in the 1920s, so it doesn't have a dishwasher. I'm determined to install one.

From talking to people, reading online and looking at pics here and elsewhere, the ideal placement for a dishwasher seems to be right next to the sink or placed perpendicular to the sink, so the door opens in front of the sink. From what I gather, this placement helps prevent drips from dishes falling on the floor when moving things from the sink to the dishwasher.

Here's a (poorly-drawn) pic of the kitchen layout and proposed dishwasher placement.

With this placement, there would be 15 inches between the edge of the sink and the edge of the dishwasher.

 

[stephenk]

Here's a picture of that side of the kitchen with the proposed dishwasher location marked in red.

You'll see a dishwasher won't fit between the sink and fridge.

The reason I don't want to install the dishwasher just to the left of the sink is because that would mean eliminating the small cabinet with 5 drawers, which I'd like to keep. I'd prefer to instead eliminate the large cabinet on the end and the two drawers next to it.

Again, in this installation, there would be 15 inches between the edge of the dishwasher and the edge of the sink.

 

[stephenk]

Here's the other side of the kitchen, just for your info.

 

[stephenk]

Just for kicks, here's a pic of the house.

 

[gansky1]

Looks fine to me - better than no dishwasher at all for sure. I agree about the drawers, you can't have too many.

 

[stephenk]

Yeah, I'd hate to eliminate that cabinet with 4 drawers (I accidentally wrote 5 drawers above, but you can see that it's actually 4).

It might not be an ideal location, but it seems to be the best I can do with the current kitchen layout.

 

[wayupnorth]

I see nothing wrong with that design at all. My kitchen is galley style and the only place I could put a dishwasher is on the opposite side, directly across from the sink. Very nice looking house also.

 

[yogitunes]

May not be the best location, but close enough for plumbing and fitting your needs.....other options is a 15 inch dishwasher next to the fridge....

can the drawers be moved down and put the dishwasher next to the sink once the cabinet is removed?

 

[ronhic]

I do find it interesting that there is no draining board as part of the sink....

However, better to lose the cupboard than the drawers, especially if you can make the top drawer between the dishwasher and sink the cutlery drawer etc...

If you're concerned about drips etc when moving items from a rinse or scrape to the machine, just put a hand towel over the edge of the counter.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Yes if you have enough space to flat the hoses behind the furniture I don't see why it would not be a good place.....
Just verify the measures of the furniture depth to see if the diswasher will fit.....and will not be too "out" forward.

P.S

Vey nice house!!!

 

 

[appnut]

this placement helps prevent drips from dishes falling on th

Looks reasonable to me.  A slight aerobic workout lol.  However, proper indoctrination from Mr. BobLoad himself. (me)  Drips falling from dishes on the floor implies one thing.  Pre-rinsing of dishes.  l  In these here parts, an absolute no no.  Proper automatic dishwashing does not need to have dishes pre-rinserd by hand.  Sufficient scraping and loading.  BTW, what brand of machine are you considering?  (I'm assuming modern). 

 

[coldspot]

"Have you thought about a portable dishwasher? That is if you got a place to put it when not and use.

 

[keny]

Move the drawers?

As another option, isn't there some way to move the 4 drawers to the extreme left? Is it an individual segment? You could support and protect the countertop as you remove everything to the left of the sink and reconfigure.
Remember you'll be carrying wet, dripping dishes a longer distance if you do it the other way.
You may be able to patch up or cover screw holes with wood filler or molding after you remove the cabinets and drawers.
Good luck with the project in any case.

 

[petek]

Seems reasonable to me as well if you can't move the drawers left and dishwasher right.
The house looks great, congrats. Is there still a lot of the original interior woodwork and fixtures, bathroom etc?

 

[retropia]

As others have mentioned, my first choice would be to move the four-drawer unit to the end, and position the dishwasher next to the sink. However, the four-drawer unit may not be its own separate cabinet module, in which case it would be considerably more work to relocate it.

In that situation, I'd place the dishwasher where your proposed location is, at the end.

 

[mattl]

The minute I saw the picture my thought was to move the drawer unit to the end as others have said. Depends on the construction.

 

[stephenk]

I have considered the possibility of moving the cabinets around. I didn't see an obvious seam in the cabinets where I could separate them and move the drawers to the end, but I didn't study it too closely. We don't take possession of the house for a few weeks so I won't have a chance to check again for a little while.

After doing quite a bit of research and looking at different models I've settled on the Bosch Ascenta series. I'll probably go with one of the lower-end models. It appears they're quiet, clean well and they're made in the USA. Well, technically they're "made in the USA with domestic and foreign components," or something like that. I've been watching them for a while so I can get the best price. I may purchase around Black Friday if I can find a good sale.

http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc...recessed-handle/SHE3AR56UC.html?source=browse

 

[chris74]

It's a shame...

...that you don't have more room. I think it will be a pity to destroy that beautiful sink/cupboard combination.

 

[hoovermatic]

Not at all. That's where mine used to be and it worked very well for the 10 years it was in that kind of layout. I used the worktop above to stack all the dirties which kept them away from the sink, keeping the sink free for other things so it worked for me and I did a lot of entertaining.

 

[rolls_rapide]

It should be fine as it is only about one cupboard's width away from the sink.

Just make sure that the water hose and drain hose are installed correctly, according to the installation instructions.

 

[alr2903]

Stephenk,  take a look at that cabinet base to right of the stove.  It looks like it may have been reworked at one time to change from a 40 or 36 inch stove, if its been altered, its the one to sacrifice, especially if there is a basement under the house to facilitate the plumbing and electric work.  Just playing house buyer here no offense intended the stove is not level and there has been some searing of the cabinet top at the front right burner of the stove, the edge of the stove should be at the same height as the top of the counter to prevent a fire, discoloration of the counter top plus if you bake a cake, the stove is not level.  I would hate for you to spoil the line of your custom built cabinets, especially in the line of sight of the kitchen door.  Just something to consider. We semi restored a 1950 house,  sacrificed a single cabinet and drawer section,  these choices are never easy.  If its been altered before thats the place to start.  We seem to have the same stove hood ours yellowed as well,  yours may have been almond.  with that gray tile a stainless hood  would "pop",  a new hood is my next project.  arthur

[this post was last edited: 11/11/2012-14:57]

 

[Iowegian]

You have a beautiful home.

Back in the late 1950s/1960s, roll-around dishwashers were popular. You would cook, eat, and then roll the dishwasher into the kitchen so you could connect it to the kitchen faucet.

Built-in dishwashers didn't become popular until the 1970s.

If you don't want to give up cabinet space, and if you have a parking place for a roll-around dishwasher, that's still a valid option. Whirlpool still makes a portable dishwasher.

Something to think about, anyway.

 

[alr2903]

If his kitchen schematic is correct a portable with door open is not the greatest of options. A built in is a good investment at resale time. alr

 

[combo52]

Dishwasher Location

I see nothing wrong with placing the DW in the corner, it is actually a better location because when the door is open it is not right in the middle of the kitchen.

 

As an Appliance sales and repair person for almost 40 years I would not buy the Bosch DW unless you are prepared for a much smaller capacity machine that does a poor job drying dishes and one that you will be so frustrated with when it breaks you will likely replace it rather than try to fix it.

 

I would buy a Kitchenaid DW with the disposer or any MT DW as they all have the disposer or if you like any KM DW with the disposer that is built by Whirlpool, the WP built KMs will have an actuall model # that begins 665.  .

 

[foraloysius]

Ofcourse John's opinion is biased, he is a Whirlpool tech, not a Bosch one. I would take his advice with a grain of salt.

 

[combo52]

New DW Selection

Yes we all have are opinions or even  biases and mine have come from working on over 10.000 residential dishwashers over the last 40 years, including many Bosch DWs. I have hundreds of customers that have Bosch DWs and most are very happy with them [ when they are working ]. I have found that when replacement time comes few will buy another however.

 

All that said, it is a fact that they are MUCH smaller inside, take a measuring tape with you when you shop.

 

The loading is much more restricted as a result and it is much harder to random load large items in them.

 

And if you ever need to get the main pump and motor, heater assembly or have to fix even normally simple things like door springs and hinges you mush remove the entire machine to do so, Expensive, LOL

 

They do not have a heated dry cycle so drying performance is more iffy, you will likely have to purchase and use wetting agent to get best results costing you an extra hundred dollars or more over the life of the DW.

 

Lastly I am an independent Appliance Sales and Service dealer, we sell and service almost all makes and models.  It is often a good idea if someone wants a particular brand appliance that is not completely mainstream to call a few independent dealers [ with great reputations ]in the area you live in and ask them if they would recommend the appliance you are considering purchasing and are happy about working on it in the future.

 

 

 

[glenfieldmathk1]

I know that I would position the dishwasher in that Position It looks like there would be plenty of space to unload/load it without you reversing into cupboards etc when bending down.
That dishwasher also looks very nice indeed. After having a Neff for quite a long time now, which still works as good and as quiet as day 1 with no repairs, just general maintance (finish dishwasher cleaner, remove spray arms and clean filter every now and then) here and there its very solid and pretty good. I would certainly choose Neff/Bosch again.

Whirlpool products are very hit and miss - avoid I say. My grans Whirlpool washer for instance isn't the only Whirlpool that cant tumble during the rinses due to the amount of water used and how aw-full the motor is. The pump rattles on it too, and also on one of my uncles Whirlpool dishwashers, which is very small (supposedly still 12 place settings though), and very cheap to compared to our Neff.

I know what foraloysius is saying regarding retailer promoting various brands and trying to push sales of them because they are accredited retailer for instance. We Recently Purchased a new oven (Being delivered on Tuesday - a week today) we chose a Bosch after doing research, however most retailer we went into (first a Neff retailer, same company as Bosch, just weird knobs) - they were definatly trying to push the Neff, which we didn't want. second retailer we went into was trying to sell us a Beko (they said Beko was better made, yeah right) made Oven, which I wasn't having. I told them that if they want us to buy something, then you let us choose and not yourself. We did go for Bosch in the end at our trusted local retailer. But just be aware, shop around, and don't be fooled by retailers trying to sell their on show/in stock appliances because they need a sale take your time and choose wisely.

 

[ovrphil]

great ideas, built in dw will be a value-added, but...just a couple comments

1) That chosen area is valuable storage space, period, but you have made a decision to do a built-in. But just remember, and I base this on 10 years living in a 450ft2 flat, you will want space if you plan on living there for any length of time. So think about that chosen area - the large cupboard is perfect for one of those double pull out drawers(steel or wood, if you prefer) to house pots, pans, lids, cooking ware, or to create a nice augmented pantry area. To the right, I don't know what those are, but the tall long cupboard beneath the small drawer would make for a nice can/spice rack pull out(or additional items).

2)A portable would be great, if you had a nook where you could use the extra counter space that comes with a portable ... I don't see any space for that(?).

3)Your stove (which is not positioned at the right height, agree with ar2903)has space to the right of it. If you can utilize that space with a tall pull-out, and maybe a small drawer, you can regain some of what's lost if you put your dishwasher in where planned.

not easy, is it?

 

[stephenk]

Thanks for the opinions, everyone.

A close second in my dishwasher choice were the Whirlpool-made Kenmores, since Sears runs pretty good deals on them sometimes. The main reason I leaned towards the Bosch was because the Kenmores are louder. The Bosch also has a mostly stainless interior, which I like.

As far as the claimed poor drying on the Bosch, I have read that complaint. But, I would guess some of those people need to read the manual, which tells you how to change a setting to turn on the extra dry heat mode. I don’t think we really even use the heated dry on our current dishwasher. I know I turn it off to save energy when I run it. Overall, drying performance isn’t a huge priority for me.

But, on the side of the Kenmore units, they are a little cheaper. There's a local place selling the Bosch Ascenta series DW for $449, which is a pretty good deal. But for that same price at Sears I could get a unit with hidden controls, but without the stainless interior of the Bosch.

After the talk about sizes, I went to Sears during my lunch break and measured the racks on the Bosch and Kenmore 13289.

Kenmore 13289 - 896 sq in total
Top rack - 435 sq in
20.75" deep
21" wide

Bottom rack - 461 sq in
22.5" deep
20.5 wide

Bosch SHE3AR56UC - 790 sq in total
Top rack - 370 sq in
18.5” deep
20" wide

Bottom rack - 420 sq in
20.25" deep
20.75" wide

So, if my math is correct, the rack space on the Bosch is about 88% of the rack space on the Kenmore.

That is a decent difference, but I don’t know if it’s enough to make me switch to the Kenmores. I’ll be watching them over the Black Friday weekend, and if I see a deal on a Kenmore I can’t pass up, I may just bite. We will see. I’ve looked through the Black Friday Sears ads, and I don’t see any of the models I’ve been eyeballing as one of the super deals, but I’ll check them online during the big sales.

 

[appnut]

Do you realize the Ascenta is not 100% SS interior?  It's only 3 sides.  The bottom of the tub is not SS interior.  That is why the Ascenta line is less expensive than the regular Bosch line.