KitchenAid D/W 21 vs. 23 pump and filter system

[beekeyknee]

I have a KDC-21D machine and a KUDJ-23 machine. I've been looking through the archives and I was wondering about putting the the door from the 23 machine on the 21, but I'm not sure that would work. It looks like the designs are too different. What do you guys think? Could some rewiring and engineering be done to make it work?

Also, I was reading that the 21 machine (Hobart design) has the more robust motor, but the 23 machine with the W/P Power Clean module are really good performers as far as cleaning an food disposing goes. I've never used one, so I don't know.

I was thinking about switching the doors because the 23 machine has a nicer door and more cycles, but I would still have the original Hobart designed pump of the 21 machine. Would I be better off just going with the 23 machine as is? Doesn't the 23 machine heat the water constantly as the machine runs? The racks in the 21 machine are better than the ones in the 23 machine. Maybe I should put the 21 racks in the 23 machine and give that a try. What should I do?

 

[appnut]

Put the 21 racks in the 23. I don't think the two doors are totally interchangeable, a slight differrence in size. And given the opossible slight change in wash cahmber size due to the different motor, the bottom rack may not exactly fit, but it's more likely it would still work. Doesn't hurt to try.

 

[rp2813]

"It looks like the designs are too different"

A lot of new Whirlpool-based system components were introduced on series 23 machines that are not compatible with any earlier ones, including it's immediate predecessor, the 22 series, which was still fundamentally a Hobart machine.

 

I don't know if there's much you can change out other than the racks as Bob suggested above.

 

[chachp]

I am eager to know if switching the racks works out.

I have a 21 series machine in my utility room that has great racks (sounds a little dirty didn't it).  There is a 23 Series machine at H4H that I'd like to get because it would exactly match my trash compactor.  The 23 series machine has racks that are pretty beat up and I'm curious to know if I could use the racks from the 21 series machine.  They sure look like they would be interchangeable.  Let us know how it works out.  I don't have any experience with the 23 series machine but I am real happy with the performance of the 21 series machine. The only annoying thing to me is the 21 does a lot of stopping and starting to heat the water.  I think stevet rigged his up with a switch to bypass all that water heating but I am not quite so daring as I am afraid I'd break something else.  Since I use it as my overflow machine it's not a big deal.

 

I have a KDS-17A as my daily driver that is still my favorite though.  You can't beat how fast that cycle is and how well it washes in such a short time.

 

[stevet]

Possible transplant material!

Brian, you can easily swap the doors on the two machines, but you will have to determine if you can get the Hobart 21 motor to run properly with the controls from the 23. They are both reversing motors and use a start relay on the bottom of the machine so if you get the wiring right then it should work fine. You will have to also make sure that you take the thermostat that clamps on to the tank bottom which controls the timer and keeps the temp of the tank water at the proper temperature. The 21's lacked this feature.

So basically, you take the whole door off the hinge supports with all the wiring and swap them completely out and then match the 23 wiring up to the respective components. And basically doi the reverse if you remount the 21 door to the 23 tank.

You should be able to figure out the wiring for the motor from the wiring diagram on the inner door. I think just the colors are different that go to the motor.

Everything else should fit just right except for the pump. It is a smaller diameter and will fall thru the opening in the sump of the 21.

Racks are interchangeable between models as well.

As far as the cleaning ability goes, I will always go with the 21/22 pump as it has a true garbage grinder in it and not a blade that cuts things down to fit thru a sizing screen like the 23 has. That design has a larger soil collection chamber but really, how much garbage does someone throw into the dishwasher that you would need that much more space for the ground up bits to be held and then sent down the drain?
I think you will be just as happy with the 21 and it will have the same cyclecharacteristics of the 23 if you change out the door anyway. You will only see a cosmetic difference. You will gain a good number of spare parts for either unit if you convert them.

Ralph, you can use the racks from any 21 thru 23 in your 21 without a problem..even actually from the 18 thru 23 would work.

And what frequent stops is your machine making to heat the water except at the start of the cycle and the sani rinse times?

I still have the switch that I used on mine to speed it up because my wife complained that it took too long. Well she now complains about the K/A Tall tub taking long too. See, when you spoil the wife with a KDS18, there is no pleasing them!
If you want to add that to your machine,it is not hard to do.

Hope this all helps.
Steve

 

[appnut]

how much garbage does someone throw into the dishwasher that

Well, I can say you have definitely not been in the real presence to experience a true BobLoad especially with major foodsoil, baked on (not burnt) casseroles & pans, and starch everywhere, with the machines properly loaded too. My experience as a child proved KitenAids weren't able to pass the test. This was before the 18 series Superbas with Soak'n'Scrub/Soak Cycle. I can attest the only machines produced since the early 1970s who survived these tests were PowerClean based WP & Kenmores and GE PotScrubbers. Never had a chance to test RR Maytags either. I look forward to the opportunity to attempt those challenges again with vintage KitchenAids coupled modern detergents.

 

[mrcleanjeans]

Right on, Bob! The 23 series,BTW, went to only 1 after rinse,which is unacceptable to me!

 

[DADoES]

 
KUDS220T4 has one after-rinse.

 

[combo52]

Inter Changing Parts from KD21-22 with KD 23s

As Stevet mentioned the basic door etc is interchangeable from the 23 with the earlier 21-22 tanks, but I have never actually bothered doing it so I am not sure if you would encounter any problems hooking up everything electrically. I am not sure that the top rack will interchange between the 21-22s and the 23s as WP really beefed up the wheels on the top rack on the 23s because the 21-22s had so much trouble with broken top rack wheels and hard to move top racks. If you want a 23 Supbera I would just get one as these machines are still very plentiful.

The 23 machines did a much better job washing overall, they have exactly the same water pumping power and the continuous water heating with the motor running does a much better job cleaning.

While the 21-22 pump has a very strong grinder but only tiny bits of food ever get into it, you are still left cleaning a filter and trying to pick up all sorts of slimy gross unidentifiable stuff out of the sump and coerce strainer.On the WP style 23 series machines ALL the circulating water goes through the grinder and sizing plate which requires all particles to fit through a 3/16' holes before they can start circulating where they immediately go through a centrifugal centrafuse to remove all heavy partials. The collection chamber size I dough is ever a problem but the WP-23 collection chamber is at least TWICE as large as the 21-22.

Overall the 21-22 pump was certainly the BEST pump and motor combination that Hobart ever put in a home DW, it was effective and rugged and best of all easy to fix. But the WP pump was Superior in overall performance and it enabled KA for the first ever to have DW that did not stink a few days after you washed a really dirty load of dishes, did not require you to clean a sharp edged nasty filter or try to scoop slimy stuff out of the sump and from under and around the heating element.

 

[beekeyknee]

Forgot to say, "Thank You".

Thanks for the info guys. I was at my Mom's and I was working on fixing her computer while she was gone. Got all wrapped up in that.