Lazy engineers?!

[newwave1]

I'm disgusted! There is a brand new hot point aqualtis on eBay that has developed a leak and the engineer has written it Off saying the machine is too heavy and it is to big a job to repair!!!

Anybody got any other ridiculous repair stories they'd like to share?

Darren

 

[aegokocarat]

i have, well, sort of if you count my dillemma with zanussi's rubbish customer support.
they told me that my zanussi washer was fine and there wasnt anything wrong with it, they also said that becasue the washer wasnt plumbed in when it was being tested (it was being tested before i acctually plumbed it in cos hotpoint were imming and areing about fixing the aqualtis) the door popped open on it so i disconnected it from the mains, eventually the sent out a local independent to look at it and he agreed with me and dissagreed with zanussi, he told me that the machine shouldent have left zanussi's premises.
Tom
P.S the aqualtis is playing up again now too lol

 

[thomasortega]

Engineers?

Well, not sure in UK but here in Brazil the engineers work only in the factory (usually their office is next to the industrial designers office, and they usually spend their days burning some neurones to try to understand the industrial design projects and trying to make our crazy ideas work and convince us a machine should be a square box, not something with organic design, ergonomy, useful features. Usually engineers never had to use a washing machine on their homes. The day an engineer design 100% of a machine without the help of the industrial designer, the machine will have only two switches (on and off).
99,9999999% of them are straight and follow the ridiculous "macho" style, very sexist. most of them are married and their wives spend all day long doing laundry and cooking, like if we still living in 1930. While that, 99% of the designers are gay. (This is not a joke, it's a fact inside Electrolux)
The engineering design inside Electrolux Sao carlos is divided into two soccer teams. 50% Palmeiras and 50% Corinthians. (By the way, I hate soccer, but I love Village People and Gloria Gaynor)

They also have to deal with the marketing department always wanting them to make the machines bigger and more eficient, even if it means wash 10 duvets with 1 drop of water. The marketing managers watch too much Dr. Who and they really believe the T.A.R.D.I.S. can be transformed into a washing machine.

They also have to deal with the financial department, because the machine should always look (and be) expensive for the final consumer but the production cost must be much lower than the previous model. (a machine people pay more than 2k dollars costed less than 50 dollars to be manufactured)

But they don't fix machines at all! Any company wouldn't be stupid to hre an engineer (very expensive salary and usually studies in expensive colleges here or abroad) to work as a technical serviceman (that propably didn't finish even the high school).

 

[qualin]

Hi Thomas,

In the UK, they call "Repairmen" "Engineers".

ie. When someone comes to fix your machine, the person who fixes it is an engineer, even though they're really not, they're a repairman. (Or repairperson in this day and age.)

You sound like you would enjoy working for Electrolux.

 

[qualin]

Hey Darren, I might as well post something on topic.

I can understand why repairmen simply don't want to bother with doing a complex or expensive repair when they know that some other part of the machine will go or their repair doesn't hold.

The worst part of it is when the repairman does the repair, but it doesn't actually fix the issue. Of course, the customer is very angry because they just spent $200 on the repair and it didn't solve the problem, it's always their fault, right?

I once got rid of an early 80's Whirlpool because the cold water solenoid stopped working. I was quoted $200 for the repair. (I could have fixed it myself, but I kind of figured it wasn't worth it.) Instead I just bought a new machine.
(Yes, I do regret doing that, but such is life.. I didn't know back then.)

 

[whirlcool]

When the agitator dogs wore out on my Whirlpool DD machine this is what I heard from repair places:

Throw the machine out, it's too expensive to repair.

The reason the top of your agitator doesn't turn is because the transmission is shot. It'll cost you $350.00 for a new one.

Oh simple job $350.00 please. (Oh no you don't!)

Just throw the machine away. It's old and you need a new one. I wouldn't spend any money on it because it'll quit soon anyway.

That was in 2004. The repair cost be $20.00 & 20 minutes of my time.

SO this begs the question How many people have replaced their washers because the repairman told them to and all that was really needed was an inexpensive fix?

And how many people replaced their dishwashers when phosphates were removed just because "the machine doesn't clean as well as it used to."?

And don't even get me started on unscrupulous air conditioning companies who come out and tell you "Your system is shot, you need a new one for $9,000" when all that was needed was maybe to have the evaporator coil cleaned.

I think there are repairmen that count on the customer not being knowledgeable about their own equipment and use that fact to generate revenue.

 

[DirectDriveDave]

Maybe the only thing I can slightly relate to here is our refrigerator, even though it doesn't involve a repairman. Parents wanted to recently replace it simply because it was old; it still worked 100% perfectly. Had the new one now for about 4 months with nothing wrong but I expect it to go out in maybe 5 years if that.

With the HVAC mentioned above, I can actually speak for my neighbor. About maybe 3 years ago, one of their units had stopped working; it did not run at all. Some idiot repair guy said that he whole thing was bad it it would cost, I think $7,000 to replace. Thankfully they are smarter than that and turned him away.

So we told them about the one we have (he lives right in the neighborhood too!) and they got him to check it out. Turns out, it just had a bad capacitor. He replaced it and only charged her $100, maybe $200 for it, and it's still running today. Just goes to show ya, how some people can be...

 

[dyson2drums]

Aha, Darren I take it you're talking about the new Hotpoint Aqualtis 11kg AQ113D697I in Halifax.

I was bidding on that last week but got outbid on it. I thought oh a rubber seal change isn't too bad as i've successfully done it before plus its the latest TOL model which I could pass on to my aunt as the Hotpoint Aquarius WMA58 seems like its not going to last much longer but it keeps proving us wrong!

That particular machine was re-listed today as the problem isn't the rubber seal, it looks like its the tub that is at fault. In the re-listed ad the seller has added new pictures that show where it leaks from in the outer tub and the puddle from the leak on a concrete floor.

I am glad I didn't win that auction as it is a bigger job than what was advertised, guess that could be the reason for it being re-listed.

 

[thomasortega]

@qualin

I enjoyed it, retired, came back, but the new global CEO finally found his way to make me hate Electrolux.

It was nice when we made everything "thinking of you". nowadays it's "thinking of profit"

 

[glenfieldmathk1]

Hotpoint 1600rpm Aqualtis 11KG on Ebay

Well,
I can only say, the person who owns the machine obviously didn't take out Hotpoints 1year Labour & 5 years parts Cover.
The machine has only been available for about 10months, so they should have got either a free repair of the tub, or the machine replaced, however this seems not be the case.
From the Ebay item, I am able to see the machine is leaking from the tub. I understand the Tub is sealed, and this would mean replacement of the whole tub, drum & bearings which would be expensive, if they haven't taken out Hotpoint Cover, and would also be expensive if you got a local repairer out.
Unless you are now willing to spend over £300 (well, maybe) this machine can be yours, but I don't think anyone would want to do that.

I just stress to everyone that buy's appliances take out your free cover. And Call them if it's not right.
Don't just say, well the seal is leaking - even if its not, and put it on Ebay, and stress to the person that the machine has had it's serial number removed. Idiot, now no one can have it repaired.

Thats just my opinion.
But in my experience, Hotpoint engineers are actually quite good, efficient and at least they arrive in the slot they say they will, unlike Candy (They phoned my Grandad up when his old Hoover broke, told him they would be here between 12&2pm - by 8pm, my grandad was worried, and said to him, oh the engineer got sick, he went home at 4pm, they bought there current Whirlpool, and stupid staff at Curry's are lazy).

 

[splittub]

@thomasortega: So it was Keith McLoughlin taking over from Hans Straberg that made you leave Electrolux? How did his leadership differ from that of Straberg? I get that you find the current policy to be about short-term profits above everything (which is an impression I have, too, because of stupid cost-cutting decisions such as the sealed tubs in the new supposedly high-end AEG washers, it makes me wary of other Electrolux products that I might otherwise have bought, such as their refrigerators), but was this the tendency during Straberg's tenure as well, or was there a significant change of policy with more focus on profits after the new CEO took over?

 

[dyson2drums]

@glenfieldmathk1 Hey, what I gathered from the seller from the first ad was that it was written off under warranty, basically they were given a new machine and told to keep the leaking one. Hence the engineer removing the serial number as it was written off.

I think they should take the machine away, refurbish it and sell it through their company website like Miele does with Grade B and C products.

 

[thomasortega]

@splittub

It's a fact that market is getting tighter day after day. of course all manufacturers must increase their profit rate to still on the market but things in Brazil are DESPERATE.

1st Quality: Years ago, Electrolux was Electrolux. No one would think of any Electrolux product being made to be cheap. We had the best vaccum cleaner, the best washer, the most reliable appliances on the market. Some models looked obsolete, ugly, the design was too square if compared to the biggest competitor (Brastemp-Whirlpool) but the washers were made to wash amazingly well and last almost forever. THe refrigerators were made to cool the foods and drinks and last almost forever, the vaccum cleaners were made to suck the tiles off the floor, swallow the rugs and maybe even the user and last forever. and the prices were honest and decent. People trusted Electrolux. It was better than WCI, better than Frigidaire, even better than the European Electrolux (including many of the brazilian projects went to european market)

Suddenly the vaccum cleaners are chinese crap, the washers became worse than chinese crap, refrigerators stop working days after the warranty expires.

We were a family, It was like a brainwash. WE MUST BE ALWAYS TOGETHER, THINK TOGETHER, WORK TOGETHER AND ALWAYS DO OUR BEST TO SATISFY THE CONSUMERS. That's what Hans always tought us.

Then Mr. "Mc Unhappy Meal" came and changed everything. Now the rule is"F**K you brazilians, we need to sabe the european arm. we need your money, no problem if you have a family to feed at home. We must fire as much as we need in your fu**ing 3rd world country to save our a** during the world crisis. We don't care about the brazilian consumers, we don't care about the prices, we need profit, profit and more profit. No matter if your washers will last 1 year, no matter if your refrigerators will die in 18 months. we don't care about you, brazilians. we're thinking of profit.

If you see the Products from my era and the products sold nowadays, you might think omg, are they made by the same company?
Millions of dollars invested in decades of researches were simply thrown down the drain. now they are making mistakes that Electrolux would never do in other times because the company knows that if it's done that way, it wont work.

Some products have ABSURD project mistakes, other are made using ridiculous weak materials on vital parts.

 

[thomasortega]

For you to have an Idea...

Mueller was always respected as a semi automatic wahsing machine manufacturer. They have an excellent know how but, Mueller was a small (if not tiny) local company.

They did their homework, learned how to make automatic washers, launched their first platform (Diva) which wasn't marvelous but was... well... it was good for the price.

Nowadays that tiny local manufacturer is a medium-to-big sized company that recently launched the best automatic front loader on the market. It may not have the foam generator that Samsung has, it may not have the ultra high speed spin LG has, it doesn't have a drum big enough to wash a cow like Whirlpool. But it is made to perform the best it can, to clean the diertiest clothes, to rinse well, to spin without jumping around the house. It's made to cost less for the consumer and it's also made to last much more than any other competitor. If there's a problem with a product, the after sales team do everything to solve the problem ASAP. How not to love a consumer like that?

Electrolux in Brazil can be compared to any xing ling chinese brand, while Mueller can almost be compared to the german Miele and it's getting even better minute after minute.

While Electrolux is thinking of profit with low quality products, Mueller is growing by thinking of the future, making excellent products, respecting the consumers with decent prices and innovative products that are still made to be simple and honest.

 

[nrones]

Even worse feeling...

is when you know there can be a lot more done with the same money. That's what buggs me, a higher spin between rinse, or stronger tumble action on the quick wash doesn't cost much! or nothing...
or just shape the same amount of plastic in different, better way...

don't wanna write anything more, really

Dex

 

[qualin]

Do you work for Mueller, Thomas?

If so, what do you do for them?

 

[aquarius1984]

Thomas,

You mentioned Electrolux Vacuum cleaners, What models were available in Brazil BEFORE the "chinese crap" you mention?

Were these better made than European Electrolux vacuums?

How did they compare?

Thanks

Rob

 

[thomasortega]

They were somehow like the european models, with minimal changes on design, maybe one or other feature more or less, depending on the model. Nothing too impressive, but they last forever (there are thousands of them out there more than 40 years old and still being used and their owners won't get rid of them for nothing in this world.)

All of them were canisters and the most famous was the "Mondial 1500" launched on early 80's. It was red with a usable exaust on the top (under a plastic cover) and the cord rewind was on the center of one of the rear wheels. It also had a wierd bag full alarm that sounded like a Fox40 whistle when the bag was full.
I still have mine and it sucks like hell.
Coincidently it's noise isn't as loud as some modern "silent" vaccum cleaners.

Of course it's filtration isn't as good as those modern vaccum with HEPA filters, and it also never had a power brush, but that was ok.

Mine was bought in 1985 and it was used daily until 1994 at the 3000m² house that my family lived before we move to an apartment.

In 2001 when I got married, a coworker gave me a Mondo 1400 and a few days before I've bought a Clario. They are ok for modern vacs. the Clario had an interesting telescopic tube and the mondo was my first VC with HEPA filter.
Even being more modern and with some interesting features, they weren't like my mom's Mondial.
Then my partner and I split, he got the Clario and I got the Mondo. In 2010 I gave it to my boss to clean his office.

At the same year, i bought an Eureka Pet Lover upright in Miami. It wasn't the best vaccum I've found on Walmart but it was MUCH better than any other VC I've ever used because it was the first time I had the oportunity to have a VC with power brush. It also has an interesting uphostery brush with some rubber parts (great to catch losen hair) and a ridiculous self cleaning duster that doesn't clean anything and works only to clean the vaccum's body.
When I bought it there was another model with an accessory that looked like a hair brush without the bristles. It had an yellow rubber trim and two faces that looked like velvet. Now I wish I had chosen this model, but I've chosen mine because I loved the purple color and the box was small enough to bring on the plane.

As now I live in an apartment with ceramic floor (Porcelanato) I have only very few throw rags that I simply toss into the washer when they are dirty. The vaccum is used weekly on two big rugs i have in my living room and in my dining room. I 5 minutes both of them are clean.

But I still prefer the old Electrolux to clean upholstery and curtains. Nothing sucks like it.

I also have an Electrolux Trilobite. What can I say about it? Well, I like it because it's fun to see visitors asking "what the hell is this red thing following me?"but it's performance is... how can I say... eh... hum... ah... (crickets sounding) ... ... ... it's "less worse" than nothing.

 

[aquarius1984]

Mondial 1500

do you have a picture of one? google does not seem to register it.