The middle X bar almost seems to focus more water on the lower rack rather than the top. I'd like to see one of these videos with a load of dishes in place to see how the water jets actually function in normal use.
Life with the GE Profile DW, 2016
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user 3941
Well-known member
Cool John!! That X arm is pretty sweet.
murando531
Well-known member
I'm impressed with this GE more now with the good lighting in this video. It seems to have very well-placed and powerful jets. The X-arms they use look to me like some kind of ninja katana, haha. I definitely see the improvement of you switching out for the S-shaped upper arm though. The jets seem to hit the ceiling with much more oomph than the X-arm did. It'll be interesting to see how the idea you mentioned of capping off the bottle jets when not needed will help improve power to the upper rack even more.
vacerator
Well-known member
Pushing water
through more jets may help cleaning ability with lower water use and pump pressures. Maybe the arm spins faster. I don't know for sure, mine has the older blue S arms, and my dishes get squeaky clean.
The tall item jets are a good idea, because before, the bottoms never got washed, unless maybe you selected steam, or used the added heat option, and the steam and heated dry sanitized them.
It seems spray arm design changes often. Is it a gimmick? I mean every dishwasher is tested before being released to the market for cleanability.
My model, and nearly every other GE model said it had "dedicated" flatware jets.
Really? Where? The jets at the tips of the center was arm have always been there.
They are the main push for the arm, and also spray the top edges of large plates.
In order to have dedicated flatware jets, they would have to put them in the side of the tub facing the flatware basket. "watch for that feature in the next generation"
through more jets may help cleaning ability with lower water use and pump pressures. Maybe the arm spins faster. I don't know for sure, mine has the older blue S arms, and my dishes get squeaky clean.
The tall item jets are a good idea, because before, the bottoms never got washed, unless maybe you selected steam, or used the added heat option, and the steam and heated dry sanitized them.
It seems spray arm design changes often. Is it a gimmick? I mean every dishwasher is tested before being released to the market for cleanability.
My model, and nearly every other GE model said it had "dedicated" flatware jets.
Really? Where? The jets at the tips of the center was arm have always been there.
They are the main push for the arm, and also spray the top edges of large plates.
In order to have dedicated flatware jets, they would have to put them in the side of the tub facing the flatware basket. "watch for that feature in the next generation"
There's really only one aspect of spray arm design that would be "a gimmick" and that is in the visuals.
GE or WP didn't have to have separate blue molded jet nozzles, but they did for visuals.
I'd venture to guess that actual spray pattern is an engineered layout.
And as with anything, there are many many multiple ways to skin a cat. Hence why every brand has a varying spray pattern/scheme. Yet they all essentially get the job done.
As for more jets with less pressure, that's counter-intuitive, since you'd need more volume to go through the extra jets, and pressure would drop.
However, by alternating the arms, they can have a smaller pump, add more jets and still keep pressure quite high.
The upper rack will always have a bit of a pressure drop due to head losses climbing to the upper rack. The volumes of the conduit and the x-middle arm are kept quite narrow to minimize the loss of excess volume. But there will always be a bit of a loss. Which yes, the S-arm seems to handle better!
And yes! I'm interested to see what changes occur if I block off the bottle jets that run all the time. I imagine it'll be a decent pressure increase.
I'm not really sure what "blue" wash arm you're talking about in your GE, Vacerator. All of GE's machines have had a curvy arm in various shades of light and dark grey the past decade or so.
That design is of their past, with fewer holes, but larger openings to create a 25deg. fanned out spray pattern. It works quite well, since they used it for at least 30 years. And then in the last few years of the old "Infiniclean" GE system with all levels running at once, they reduced the jet sizes and added a few extra on the bottom to eek out some water savings before the new [current] manual filter platform was ready.
GE or WP didn't have to have separate blue molded jet nozzles, but they did for visuals.
I'd venture to guess that actual spray pattern is an engineered layout.
And as with anything, there are many many multiple ways to skin a cat. Hence why every brand has a varying spray pattern/scheme. Yet they all essentially get the job done.
As for more jets with less pressure, that's counter-intuitive, since you'd need more volume to go through the extra jets, and pressure would drop.
However, by alternating the arms, they can have a smaller pump, add more jets and still keep pressure quite high.
The upper rack will always have a bit of a pressure drop due to head losses climbing to the upper rack. The volumes of the conduit and the x-middle arm are kept quite narrow to minimize the loss of excess volume. But there will always be a bit of a loss. Which yes, the S-arm seems to handle better!
And yes! I'm interested to see what changes occur if I block off the bottle jets that run all the time. I imagine it'll be a decent pressure increase.
I'm not really sure what "blue" wash arm you're talking about in your GE, Vacerator. All of GE's machines have had a curvy arm in various shades of light and dark grey the past decade or so.
That design is of their past, with fewer holes, but larger openings to create a 25deg. fanned out spray pattern. It works quite well, since they used it for at least 30 years. And then in the last few years of the old "Infiniclean" GE system with all levels running at once, they reduced the jet sizes and added a few extra on the bottom to eek out some water savings before the new [current] manual filter platform was ready.
Dedicated Silverware Jets
Oh, about the "silverware" jets.
You're right, they're the same jets that propel the middle arm.
BUT, what I've noticed in GE's latest machines is that they've targeted these drive jets to spray at varied levels to better cover the flatware.
Are they "100%" dedicated to flatware? No.....they drive the arm.
But so what? They scrub the silverware very very well.
Andrew's WP has a nifty targeted silverware spray bar.
And GE just came out with a Profile model that has a whole manifold full of jets that is right underneath the silverware baskets....IN addition, to the existing jets on the middle wash arm.
Yes it's marketing jargon. But the job still gets done.
Oh, about the "silverware" jets.
You're right, they're the same jets that propel the middle arm.
BUT, what I've noticed in GE's latest machines is that they've targeted these drive jets to spray at varied levels to better cover the flatware.
Are they "100%" dedicated to flatware? No.....they drive the arm.
But so what? They scrub the silverware very very well.
Andrew's WP has a nifty targeted silverware spray bar.
And GE just came out with a Profile model that has a whole manifold full of jets that is right underneath the silverware baskets....IN addition, to the existing jets on the middle wash arm.
Yes it's marketing jargon. But the job still gets done.
vacerator
Well-known member
My GE Profile is from 2011
without a door handle. Plastic tub. The spray arms are a deep blue, not grey.
without a door handle. Plastic tub. The spray arms are a deep blue, not grey.
vacerator
Well-known member
Yes John,
thats it!
I have read that not pre rinsing dishes or not removing stickers from the bottom of mugs, etc. can clog and gum up the filters and even the pump resulting in poor washing effectiveness, and even scaling. Particles of food can clog spray jets.
I rinse, and besides, we don't run it but mainly every other day. A dishwasher to me is a sanitizer more so than a scrubber.
I know most will disagree, but it's a bit of a job to take apart and clean everything.
thats it!
I have read that not pre rinsing dishes or not removing stickers from the bottom of mugs, etc. can clog and gum up the filters and even the pump resulting in poor washing effectiveness, and even scaling. Particles of food can clog spray jets.
I rinse, and besides, we don't run it but mainly every other day. A dishwasher to me is a sanitizer more so than a scrubber.
I know most will disagree, but it's a bit of a job to take apart and clean everything.
Blue spray arm
Could have also been this one...
Could have also been this one...
Stickers will gum up ANY machine.
But as long as you scrape the piles of food off of dishware, there should be no reason to rinse anything.
And I'm sure we're getting into the weeds, but I'd call that spray arm 'charcoal grey' haha.
Logixx!
That arm is HUGE. And Blue!
When on earth did GE spend money on that?!
Never seen it before.
But as long as you scrape the piles of food off of dishware, there should be no reason to rinse anything.
And I'm sure we're getting into the weeds, but I'd call that spray arm 'charcoal grey' haha.
Logixx!
That arm is HUGE. And Blue!
When on earth did GE spend money on that?!
Never seen it before.
vacerator
Well-known member
Mine is that color blue,
but I've never seen that one either. Must have been a top of the line then with smart dispense. They were tweaking their models and such back then. Like some had a very thin fill tube from the water valve, but mine doesn't.
The handle on my flatware basket broke, but it really isn't much of a bother to lift it our from both ends to the counter top. My wares drawer is just to the right.
but I've never seen that one either. Must have been a top of the line then with smart dispense. They were tweaking their models and such back then. Like some had a very thin fill tube from the water valve, but mine doesn't.
The handle on my flatware basket broke, but it really isn't much of a bother to lift it our from both ends to the counter top. My wares drawer is just to the right.
A special treat!
Hey kiddos!
A teaser.
I got my hands on a reasonably priced Clear Service door!
Of course I did a load with the full glory revealed.
Here's some initial pics.
Once I process and render the video, I'll post that as well.
Hey kiddos!
A teaser.
I got my hands on a reasonably priced Clear Service door!
Of course I did a load with the full glory revealed.
Here's some initial pics.
Once I process and render the video, I'll post that as well.
To say you made my day
Would be an understatement!
Can't wait for that video. I owe you many favors now, thats for sure.
Would be an understatement!
Can't wait for that video. I owe you many favors now, thats for sure.Through the Clear Door
Here it is kiddos!
Clear service door, running an empty Light wash with lower rack removed for visibility.
Some explanation of operations:
- You'll notice it starts off with a waterfall fill with the side wall jets that only operate during fill periods.
- The first and second fills are dumped pretty quick as part of GE's Auto Hot Start to purge the lines of cold water and get the machine filling with 90F water minimum. It'll do that up to 3 times if the line water is super cold.
- 3rd segment is the main wash, and it's not audible, but the heater is on to heat that water to 125F on Light wash.
- Rack sequence is Lower Main, Upper, Lower Reverse, Upper, back to Lower Main. Which repeats through the main wash.
- If you've been following this thread you'll know that the corners of the upper rack on the GE Profile machines with the X-arms are kinda weak. I acquired a standard GE S-arm for the upper rack,and I installed that back in toward the end of the video for comparisons.
I have a load of dishes done with the clear door as well.
I'm still processing that video, soon to come.
Enjoy!
http://https//youtu.be/r-mMpmHv4s0
Here it is kiddos!
Clear service door, running an empty Light wash with lower rack removed for visibility.
Some explanation of operations:
- You'll notice it starts off with a waterfall fill with the side wall jets that only operate during fill periods.
- The first and second fills are dumped pretty quick as part of GE's Auto Hot Start to purge the lines of cold water and get the machine filling with 90F water minimum. It'll do that up to 3 times if the line water is super cold.
- 3rd segment is the main wash, and it's not audible, but the heater is on to heat that water to 125F on Light wash.
- Rack sequence is Lower Main, Upper, Lower Reverse, Upper, back to Lower Main. Which repeats through the main wash.
- If you've been following this thread you'll know that the corners of the upper rack on the GE Profile machines with the X-arms are kinda weak. I acquired a standard GE S-arm for the upper rack,and I installed that back in toward the end of the video for comparisons.
I have a load of dishes done with the clear door as well.
I'm still processing that video, soon to come.
Enjoy!
http://https//youtu.be/r-mMpmHv4s0
pretty impressive water action!
user 3941
Well-known member
Great job John! Thanks for sharing!
murando531
Well-known member
This.... is absolutely gorgeous! The lighting and everything is excellent. I've watched it through twice now mesmerized because it looks like a water feature in a fancy hotel fountain. This is excellent work! 
And I have to say, I still think the S-arm looks much more effective at throwing water in the corners and against the ceiling of the tank. It seems to create more splash effect when hitting the top. I am surprised at how fast both arms turn. It's definitely odd hearing a faster rhythm of jets going by the door than the 30-35 rpm rotation in most machines.
I'm still hella jealous that you're able to get a clear service door. I still can't find even a hint of a part number available for any WP/KitchenAid/Maytag. Even Kenmore. I'm VERY tempted to try ordering the GE door and see if it will fit at all or if it can be slightly modified. Surely the dimensions of the door opening aren't that drastically different, especially since GE now has seals in tank rather than the edge of the actual door.
And I have to say, I still think the S-arm looks much more effective at throwing water in the corners and against the ceiling of the tank. It seems to create more splash effect when hitting the top. I am surprised at how fast both arms turn. It's definitely odd hearing a faster rhythm of jets going by the door than the 30-35 rpm rotation in most machines.
I'm still hella jealous that you're able to get a clear service door. I still can't find even a hint of a part number available for any WP/KitchenAid/Maytag. Even Kenmore. I'm VERY tempted to try ordering the GE door and see if it will fit at all or if it can be slightly modified. Surely the dimensions of the door opening aren't that drastically different, especially since GE now has seals in tank rather than the edge of the actual door.
Jealous here as well. I've looked at the clear door for Bosch dishwashers and it was like 100 Euros. No...
Yes, it really lookes like a fountain in there with the jets whirling around. Too bad the side jets only come on during the fill cycle - but I had already read that in the service manual. Looking forward to more videos.
Yes, it really lookes like a fountain in there with the jets whirling around. Too bad the side jets only come on during the fill cycle - but I had already read that in the service manual. Looking forward to more videos.
Very nice
I think the arm switch out was a good idea.
I find it interesting that GE would be the company to invest so much thought in better wash arm design - in the late '70s (their work on the multi-orbital) and now.
I think the arm switch out was a good idea.
I find it interesting that GE would be the company to invest so much thought in better wash arm design - in the late '70s (their work on the multi-orbital) and now.
Thank you!
I feel I need to work on the light a bit, with the hot spot in the back.
Regardless, it came out nice!
I think you're all right about the standard S-arm. It's water passages are larger, so I'm wondering if it's seeing less of a pressure loss, vs. the X-arm with has much narrower passages, which may restrict flow.
The S-arm did seem to throw water more forcefully in the corners for sure.
I do however like how the X-arm rotates a little slower for more exposure. But with the faster/increased pressure from the S-arm, maybe it's all moot.
I'm seeming to get similar performance from either arm, now that I'm using better detergent in tandem with the soft water as opposed to almost a year ago.
These clear doors are expensive! The GE door is over $100 as well. However if you find one on a sales website, give it a shot. I got mine for $50 and free shipping. And I saw another one for $30.
Maybe the GE will fit other machines!
It's got extra clearance for bull-nose racks, so there's a good chance.
We need someone to experiment.
It's my recollection as well, that GE seems to do lots of wash arm experimentation. With these x-arms, reversing arms, orbital arms and whirlybirds.
And now with this clean sweep arm, such as in post #68422, that is geared and juts out c to wash upper rack corners.
Apparently, the review is less than stellar on that machine :/
I have more planned, my fervent appliance kids!
I feel I need to work on the light a bit, with the hot spot in the back.
Regardless, it came out nice!
I think you're all right about the standard S-arm. It's water passages are larger, so I'm wondering if it's seeing less of a pressure loss, vs. the X-arm with has much narrower passages, which may restrict flow.
The S-arm did seem to throw water more forcefully in the corners for sure.
I do however like how the X-arm rotates a little slower for more exposure. But with the faster/increased pressure from the S-arm, maybe it's all moot.
I'm seeming to get similar performance from either arm, now that I'm using better detergent in tandem with the soft water as opposed to almost a year ago.
These clear doors are expensive! The GE door is over $100 as well. However if you find one on a sales website, give it a shot. I got mine for $50 and free shipping. And I saw another one for $30.
Maybe the GE will fit other machines!
It's got extra clearance for bull-nose racks, so there's a good chance.
We need someone to experiment.
It's my recollection as well, that GE seems to do lots of wash arm experimentation. With these x-arms, reversing arms, orbital arms and whirlybirds.
And now with this clean sweep arm, such as in post #68422, that is geared and juts out c to wash upper rack corners.
Apparently, the review is less than stellar on that machine :/
I have more planned, my fervent appliance kids!
Thanks so much for the awesome video, John! Interesting to see what goes on inside my GE. I had no idea the side jets were for fill only. Also very surprised that water from a couple of jets in the bottom arm reaches the top of the tub in an empty machine.
Very Nice Demonstration
It is always fun to see what goes on inside a DW.
I have had one of these DWs in my home for nearly two years now and while it basically produces clean dishes it is on the way out of my kitchen.
The racks are the worst I have ever seen in a DW, nothing stays put in the top rack, and things fall through the lower rack, they are too dark in color and very irregular in configuration which makes loading this machine a constant puzzle.
The cleaning ability in the corners of the top rack with the X arm is terrible.
The overall cleaning looks good, BUT the final rinse water is cloudy and oily and the machine often develops a bad stale odor if you don't leave the door open.
I could learn to live with this DW if it wasn't for the fact the 1987 WP does so much better job, there is just no comparison when you are unloading both machines, both machines have the same water supply and detergents used in them.
I am going to put in another WP in place of the GE, if anyone wants this GE speak up or I am just going to turn it into a pile of spare parts I will not sell it to a customer.
PS This GE DW was given to me by an appliance distributor because they could not get the door to close properly. We fixed the closure but it does leak a little water under the door once in a while, I have not bothered to try fixing it because I knew after a few months I would not keep this DW.
The front of this DW is black in color.
It is always fun to see what goes on inside a DW.
I have had one of these DWs in my home for nearly two years now and while it basically produces clean dishes it is on the way out of my kitchen.
The racks are the worst I have ever seen in a DW, nothing stays put in the top rack, and things fall through the lower rack, they are too dark in color and very irregular in configuration which makes loading this machine a constant puzzle.
The cleaning ability in the corners of the top rack with the X arm is terrible.
The overall cleaning looks good, BUT the final rinse water is cloudy and oily and the machine often develops a bad stale odor if you don't leave the door open.
I could learn to live with this DW if it wasn't for the fact the 1987 WP does so much better job, there is just no comparison when you are unloading both machines, both machines have the same water supply and detergents used in them.
I am going to put in another WP in place of the GE, if anyone wants this GE speak up or I am just going to turn it into a pile of spare parts I will not sell it to a customer.
PS This GE DW was given to me by an appliance distributor because they could not get the door to close properly. We fixed the closure but it does leak a little water under the door once in a while, I have not bothered to try fixing it because I knew after a few months I would not keep this DW.
The front of this DW is black in color.
Thanks John!
If I'm honest, there ARE some issues with this platform, which you touched upon.
- The top rack layout is less than desirable, however I've quickly gotten used to the pattern. There's the section where the tines fold down on the left, and the folding clips are terribly placed, where they don't allow half the glasses to sit steady in the rack, so they will roll around, fall over etc.
- The top rack roller glides seem very smooth to me. However they do make a (faint) scraping noise as they move. It's not offensive to me at all, but to some I guess it is. I have noticed, depending on the load, the rollers will gunk up with sediment, and become stiff. Which works it's way out after a wash or two.
- The bottom rack holds a ton of dishes, but it's not as flexible as it looks sometimes.
- The corners are a weak spot for sure, and the standard arm does alleviate it as demonstrated upthread.
- With certain loads, there will be grit in the tops of cups, but it's very fine silt. Still annoying.
- The filter cup is not nearly as good at staying clean as WP's filter systems today. I need to rinse mine every 2-4 weeks. But it's not been a personal bother thus far.
However I have not had any of the greasy last-rinse water issues, or odor that you proclaim. My machine always smells fresh.
The cup or so of water that remains in the sump is sometimes a little cloudy from the remnants of rinse aid, but it's never oily or stinky.
Thus far I am enjoying the machine.
And I have become very attached to the top level bottle jets!
However, I have made a pact that if it requires a repair of over $200, or more than $200 within two years.....I will sell it for parts....and join the wonderful world of Whirlpool.
As their new dishwashers have seriously impressed me as of late.
If I'm honest, there ARE some issues with this platform, which you touched upon.
- The top rack layout is less than desirable, however I've quickly gotten used to the pattern. There's the section where the tines fold down on the left, and the folding clips are terribly placed, where they don't allow half the glasses to sit steady in the rack, so they will roll around, fall over etc.
- The top rack roller glides seem very smooth to me. However they do make a (faint) scraping noise as they move. It's not offensive to me at all, but to some I guess it is. I have noticed, depending on the load, the rollers will gunk up with sediment, and become stiff. Which works it's way out after a wash or two.
- The bottom rack holds a ton of dishes, but it's not as flexible as it looks sometimes.
- The corners are a weak spot for sure, and the standard arm does alleviate it as demonstrated upthread.
- With certain loads, there will be grit in the tops of cups, but it's very fine silt. Still annoying.
- The filter cup is not nearly as good at staying clean as WP's filter systems today. I need to rinse mine every 2-4 weeks. But it's not been a personal bother thus far.
However I have not had any of the greasy last-rinse water issues, or odor that you proclaim. My machine always smells fresh.
The cup or so of water that remains in the sump is sometimes a little cloudy from the remnants of rinse aid, but it's never oily or stinky.
Thus far I am enjoying the machine.
And I have become very attached to the top level bottle jets!
However, I have made a pact that if it requires a repair of over $200, or more than $200 within two years.....I will sell it for parts....and join the wonderful world of Whirlpool.
As their new dishwashers have seriously impressed me as of late.
Yeah Frig!
I was happily surprised as well.
Most of the jets on the lower spray are angled, so they never get to the ceiling. But the few that go straight up do indeed spray with enough force to definitely pelt the ceiling real good.
The upper zone is definitely more gentle, yet not weak in any sense either. And that standard mid arm does seem to throw more forcefully.
I was happily surprised as well.
Most of the jets on the lower spray are angled, so they never get to the ceiling. But the few that go straight up do indeed spray with enough force to definitely pelt the ceiling real good.
The upper zone is definitely more gentle, yet not weak in any sense either. And that standard mid arm does seem to throw more forcefully.
I have no complaints about my GE's cleaning ability, but I agree with both Johns that the racks are a weak point. The tine indents and stays are flimsy. I'm the one who is bugged by the cheap, scraping sound the glides make when moving the upper rack in or out. I find the interior rather tight---space-wise---compared to the TOL LG it replaced. It is wonderfully quiet.
Mine is here for the full span of its natural life. After that: KitchenAid.
Mine is here for the full span of its natural life. After that: KitchenAid.
Suave Loading Pics
'ello folks.
The main squeeze and I feasted on some pretty epic pasta, antipasti salad, and garlic bread the other night. It made a mess of the kitchen, that's for sure.
But it made for a fun load in the PDT720!
It was the right combination of dish and cookware to load both racks very tightly, with the upper rack in the low position to take full plates and cookware as well.
First time I've done that because the upper rack when lowered, causes the middle spray arm to kinda crash into things. But it worked out the other night!
The deets:
Very starchy pot and collander.
Crusty pans from AM's bacon, and the night's sausage and vodka sauce.
Lots of plastic storageware mixed in.
Baking pan.
Autosense cycle
Boost Heat
Steam Prewash
"Bottle Jets" to give the upper rack more TLC.
Heated Dry.
238 minutes!
Cascade Complete GEL, (hisssssss, i know lol. But it's been working very well thus far with my water experiments)
Everything came out sparkling clean!
'ello folks.
The main squeeze and I feasted on some pretty epic pasta, antipasti salad, and garlic bread the other night. It made a mess of the kitchen, that's for sure.
But it made for a fun load in the PDT720!
It was the right combination of dish and cookware to load both racks very tightly, with the upper rack in the low position to take full plates and cookware as well.
First time I've done that because the upper rack when lowered, causes the middle spray arm to kinda crash into things. But it worked out the other night!
The deets:
Very starchy pot and collander.
Crusty pans from AM's bacon, and the night's sausage and vodka sauce.
Lots of plastic storageware mixed in.
Baking pan.
Autosense cycle
Boost Heat
Steam Prewash
"Bottle Jets" to give the upper rack more TLC.
Heated Dry.
238 minutes!
Cascade Complete GEL, (hisssssss, i know lol. But it's been working very well thus far with my water experiments)
Everything came out sparkling clean!
John, I didn't realize the upper rack was that "tiered". Unless paying close attention, would make loading in the lower position a challenge to make sure spray arm isn't blocked.
If as dirty as described (if not moreso) and as loaded as it was, "BobLoad" certified.
If as dirty as described (if not moreso) and as loaded as it was, "BobLoad" certified.
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