Lincoln and Buick update - off topic

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58limited

58limited

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Joined
Sep 27, 2006
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Location
Port Arthur, Texas
New threads to get our minds off of negative topics.

1978 Lincoln Town Coupe: Finally got the A/C working. I had to order a part to replace the POA valve, which is now unavailable. Now driving is a pleasure. I replaced the defective after market radio with an original factory 8 track AM/FM stereo. This car had a factory CB radio that was missing, but I bought one and have another on the way - should get a working one out of the two. A steering column is also on the way to fix the problems created by the previous owner's attempt to fix things. Next projects: fixing the power windows and rebuilding the carburator - it runs great but the carb is leaking and there is hesitation when the gas pedal is depressed.

1958 Buick Limited: Finally drug it out of the garage and got it running. Charged the A/C and took a couple of kids to their High School Prom - they loved the car and were amazed that it has working A/C. I need to get on with painting it - lots of surface rust is becoming visible since it sat in the garage since last November.
 
Doesn't the '78 still have the 460V-8 in it? Seems like my '79 had a smaller displacement and a horrid two-barrel carb. O.k. acceleration----but LAME compared to the old 460 with a good old four-barrel carb! (I do not recall the trade-off with fuel economy to be significantly better in the '79 compared to the old 460's but by the time I got my '86 things had certainly changed!)

Please show some interior shots of the Limited when you have a chance. Would love to refresh my memory. Those were wonderful old cruisers.

Best wishes with these restorations!
 
My '78 has the 460. The 351 was available in 1978, but was standard in 1979 (460 was discontinued). The 460 gets a little better gas milage - more power to move the car. The 351 can be made to perform, just have to get rid of the power draining 1970's emissions and fuel economy stuff (fuel economy was 12mpg - the stuff didn't work). My truck has a 351 with an RV cam, milled heads, and a Wieand (sp?) 4bbl intake. It is pretty powerful.

Here's an interior shot of the Buick. It was reupholstered by the previous owner - this is not an original color scheme but looks good.

5-20-2007-16-45-39--58limited.jpg
 
MY dream car

I would love to find a charcol and Grey 1951 Cadillac Coupe Deville. When I was a younster Our Neighbor had one and I would spend every chance I got just going over there and staring at that Cadillac.

Skip...
 
Lincoln and Ford engines . . .

I don't know about 351, but the 400 cu. in. engine was available at least in 1977 in the Town Car, with the two-barrel carburettor. The father of a good friend of mine bought a new Town Car coupe in '77, and it came with the 400. According to my friend, the 400 was considered fairly rare at the time, with most Town Cars having the 460. That car is still owned by my friend's mother, who has kept it garaged all these years for sentimental reasons even though her husband died over twenty years ago. So far it has outlasted two more modern Town Cars, and is known around the house as "the big car", even though her current generation Town Car is hardly small. The 460 may be more desirable but after 30 years of service their 400 still runs well and reliably so they have no complaints.

I believe the 400 is a development of the 351 Cleveland, which has very nice breathing for an old American V-8. The Cleveland heads have larger valves than the 351 Windsor, and they are canted for better gasflow. Unfortunately, the Cleveland was discontinued here in about '75 and all the production equipment moved to Australia, where they made it for many more years. The Windsor continued here for many years as well, but it doesn't have such nice heads. I've meddled around with a few DeTomaso Panteras, which all have the Cleveland or Aussie engines (aside from the very last few Pantera IIs in the early '90s), and I've seen properly built Clevelands pull over 7000 rpm. One buddy of mine had four Weber 48 IDAs on his with nitrous, solid lifters, and 13:1 pistons, and belive me that was one strong engine!
 
You are right - the Lincolns had the 400, not the 351M. The only difference between the two motors is the crank shaft and piston rod length, to get a longer stroke in a 400. It produces more torque to move the big car. My 1977 F-250 has a 351M, don't know why they didn't put a 400 in it.
 
Yeah, a 400 sounds right. It moved the old girl around o.k. but was NOT a 460! That car was very trouble-free as were all of my old Lincolns.(My '68 took some fine-tuning but was very "over-built" and one had to expect it.)

Funny you mention all the chrome on your Buick----as I recall there was no shortage on the same vintage Olds 98, or Cadillac "Fleetwood" either!
 
I don't think the '58 Buick grill was the biggest, but the rear bumper was the largest in the industry in 1958. The entire '58 GM line was chrome laden, but it is believed that the '58 Buick had more chrome by weight than any other car made.
 
Triple Turbine

So, does your Buick have Triple Turbine Flight Pitch Dynaflo Drive? You will be able to tell, because the shift quadrant has no lo range, it will say Gr, I believe, to signify Grade Retarder. If so, don't drive in this range, it is only to slow the car on a steep grade. The torque converter in a modern car has 3 elements, the Flight pitch had 5 elements, with the 3 turbines connected by a complicated gearset.

I once drove a 1959 Chevrolet Impala with Turboglide, quite similar to the Flight Pitch Dynaflo. The smoothest drive ever. You could still floor it for added power, the stator would switch pitch for added accelleration.

The standard Variable Pitch Dynaflo was also a wonderful transmission, with many of the same features of the Flight Pitch. One of our friends had the 1959 Buick with that drive, and it was fun to drive, very powerful.

Martin
 
Ok I have to ask
Those are all awesome cars.. Whats been finished with them and do you still have them (with the exception of the lincoln and the buick).. I love the Galaxie
 
The Dynaflo trannies were the smoothest ever! (Although its a good thing fuel was cheap back then though because I don't think they (fluid-drives) were very efficient!}
Oh, that sound they made--------literally purrrrrrred! Fabulous!
 
My Limited was converted to the twin turbine (Variable Pitch) dynaflow before I got it. The triple turbine (Flight Pitch Dynaflow) was only used two or three years and is extremely hard to find parts for, much less finding a rebuilder that can do it. I have a complete Flight Pitch set up in storage if I ever want to go back and make the car correct. I have most of the hard to find parts except the forward clutches. I even have a complete bearing set - extremely rare. I want to use them as a template to manufacture reproductions. Most people have to custom machine their own - the measurements are in the shop manual or parts manual I've been told, but nothing compares with having an original.

I still have all of the cars that are pictured on my web page, mostly in the condition pictured. I have been amassing lots of parts, but I'm building a storage shed to get the parts out of the garage so that I can work on the cars - no room right now. The Galaxie now has an Isky performance cam (original 1970s cam kit) and can really smoke the tires. My goal is to have it painted this year, its in primer right now.
 
The 1965 Olds 98 Town Sedan

Can I interest any of you men for a ride? Her 425 ultra high compression engine hums along just fine. Her rebuilt, (original), Frigidaire compressor will keep you cool too.

Any takers?

5-21-2007-20-15-9--Air-WayCharlie.jpg
 
Very nice site

Thanks for the Dynaflo info. I know it is hard to keep those triple turbines running.

It's nice to know you could re-install it someday. But the twin turbines are fun too. They were produced through 1963, and were in the first year of the Riviera. After that GM mostly went to the Turbo-Hydramatic drive, the Turbo 400 in some cars had a variable pitch stator, too. Some Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles and Buicks had it. Charlie's Town Sedan may have one. Chevy was the last to have the Turbo Hydramatics in it's line, I think Powerglide was used up until 1969.

Your web site is fantastic, as is you home.

Martin
 
I have always loved Dynaflo, Flight Pitch, Turboglide transmissions. Not the most fuel efficient, but I sure liked the no shift shock smoothness.

They were the Continuously Variable Tranmissions of their time. Although today's CVT technology is nothing like those good old trannys, the feel of drivng a car with CVT is surprisingly similar. The first time I drove a CVT car, floods of memories of driving my dad's 1960 Electra came back.
 
The '65 Olds 98 was a wonderful car. Charlie's version is a "post-sedan" rather than a "hardtop". The post-sedan had a taller windshield and allowed for much better visibility and lots of headroom.

Dad had a '66 Hardtop version and the windshield was lower---it gave the inpression of looking out of the "view-slit" of a tank, and greatly reduced visibility and reduced interior headroom. Nonetheless, these fabulous cars were very fast, and powerful AND IMO rode just as well or better than the Cadillac (de Ville) of the same vintage. I used to chide Dad about his "couch on wheels".Dad never did care much for the automated "Climate Control" system believing he could get the car MUCH colder with the standard system. I think he was right. That '66 98 could be turned into a FREEZER on the hottest of days. So cold, the exterior of the windows could develop a layer of condensation over them if you weren't driving fast enough to blow it off! Very kool steering wheel also. And those old GM cars had a wonderful scent inside.
I'd love to experience a ride in one of those again.
 
OHH Charlie I'll go

I LOVE 98's!!!
Thats all my 5'2" Mom would ever drive!! She was a dwarf inside them!!!
Our first one was a 1953 98 Holiday Coupe-- loaded , it was a Cream Puff as Dad used to call it! WE NEVER should have sold it.
I got my head stuck in the rear power windows!!
Our next Olds was a 1963 Starfire in RED, that thing could move and handle! Almost as good handling as our 1970 2002 BMW which is surprising for a rear wheel non independant drive train.
My favorite was our 1971 Olds 98 the most beautiful styled Olds ever built IMHO. The seats had 6 inches of foam! You could ride all day with no discomfort, we drove that baby from NY to CA to Texas and back again.

That Lincoln 460 engine has an interesting history. It was under bored to 430 for the Mercury Turnpike Cruiser and the 1958 Edsel. They slapped a 4 barrel Holley on board and that 430 could SCOOT! I could almost pop wheelies with my Edsel!
Many parts were interchangable between the Lincoln Engine and the Edsel.
Very smooth and powerful engine.
I think the 460 first appeared on the 1955-6 Mark II if I am not mistaken.
 
A little more on the 65 Olds 98 Town Sedan:

The Town Sedan was the "base" model 98. It was followed in the line-up by the Holiday series and the top of the line was the Luxury series.

The Holiday and Luxury models came with power windows and a 4 way power seat. These items were standard. The Town Sedan had crank windows and a manual move seat. The Town Sedan was really used to move potential buyers into the upper models for a small difference in price. "See how much more you get for only $200!"

So, the Town Sedan was somewhat limited in production. There were 13,700 made versus the more than triple the number for the other models. I have discovered from an appraiser, that this has helped the value of my car.

My Town Sedan is a North Carolina, (Winston-Salem), car that I purchased from the children of the original owner. It is equipped with heater/defroster, A/C, AM radio, power steering/brakes, trunk opener, door edge guards, EZ eye tined windows and back up lights. Yes, back up lights were still optional in 1965! Seat belts are only in the front too.

I grew up with mostly Cadillac products and I agree with Steve that the 98's were almost sister cars to them. The only significant differences that I have spotted, (I have owned quite a few older Cadillacs), is that the trim is nicer on the Caddy's and that they also use more sound deadening insulation.

The Luxury models remind of the Fleetwood series. Beautiful door pulls, interior fabrics, very quiet, nice headliners, etc.

The power is amazing and this car is much more responsive when the gas pedal is pushed. I had a mint, trophy winning '66 Sedan deVille and even with the 429 it was far more sluggish and the braking was not as good------of course it was a much heavier car.

The only thing that makes it a bit tiring to drive on long distances is that the power steering is not variable speed controlled. GM did not introduce that until the 1966 models.

And one last thing, I agree with Steve's Dad, the non-climate control A/C is far more effective! Cadillac did not get that really right until it became electronic instead of vacuum controlled. The A/C in the 1966 Caddy drove me crazy! When I a teenager, my father had a '66 Fleetwood Brougham, (lots of goodies and toys on that monster!), and the climate control was moody even then! The guide-a-matic head lights could also set my father off as well.
 
A little more on the FOMOCO engines. The 1958 Edsel prompted the debut of a new engine class that eventually replaced the Y-blocks. The new class was called the FE (Many think it means Ford Edsel, but it really means Ford Engine) class. Edsel came out in 1958 with a 410 and a 361. You could get various other sizes in Ford (332, 352, later 360, 390, 406, 427, 428). Mercury and Lincoln had different sizes than the Fords and this class was discontinued in cars in 1971, but was used until about 1976 in trucks. I don't know anything about the 1960's Lincoln 430 (I think it was an FE), but the 460 in mine is derived from the 385 series, or Big Block, introduced in 1968 and made famous by the 429 (think Boss 429 Mustang). Very little is interchangeable from the Big Block to the FE. The 429 and 460 are capable of extraordinary performance if built right and the potential from a Police Interceptor motor is almost unlimited.

The the 400M is a modified Cleveland block that is 1/2 inch taller than the 351C. The 351M is a destroked 400M and is a torque powerhouse if built right, which is why it was used in trucks and the 400M was used in cars. the Cleveland and modified series have several interchangeable parts, but very little interchanges with the Windsor series.

Honestly, for versatility and potiential performance, my Ford motor of choice is a 390 FE, which is in my Galaxie. If I could get my hands on a 427 or 428, though, Look Out!!
 
Ford Engines.

Back in the 1980s, my family had 2 1975 Lincoln Continental Town Cars. I was way too young to drive then, but I would give my teeth to drive one of them now! They were both powered by the 460 which would perform very nicely when asked, but was equally well-suited to cruising down the road quietly with the greatest of ease. That was a refined car, not too flashy, but it was so good it didn't have to prove anything. I just wish there was an overdrive available. The C6 3-speed transmission was a very strong design (it had to be to deal with the power and weight of a Lincoln), but the lack of overdrive really killed the already dreadful furl economy.
I know that before 1975 there was a 462 engine in some Lincolns, but the 460, which replaced it, was more advanced. The 460, from what I have read, was Ford's last "old-school" big block. In later years it was fuel injected and used in trucks as late as 1997.
I would love a 1975, or if necessary a 1976, Lincoln Continental Town Car. I would try to keep it as close to original as possible, except for converting the AC to R-134a. I might consider trying to fit an overdrive transmission for the sake of fuel economy and not running the engine at such a high RPM while on the highway. I would also be curious to see what kind of power and fuel economy could be achieved by switching from the 4-barel carb. to fuel injection, even if it means replacing the engine with a much newer one. I'd bet the car could be an awesome sleeper!
Just out of curoiusity, does anyone else hate it when people put absurdely large chrome wheels on classic cars?

Dreaming of a gentile rumble from a 460,
Dave
 
Jet------

I had a '68 Continental and it had a 460 in it as an "option" the first year offered! The standard engine was the old 462.That 460 powered Lincoln could pull a house down! That was without a doubt one of the most powerful cars (for its weight) I ever had and I've had a lot of 'em. Mom had a M-B 300SEL similar to my 4.5 ---- hers had a 6.3 engine in it and it was like riding the Space-Shuttle if you punched it!

I am glad I grew up in the era I did. Wonderful autos. I also had a lot of fun with all the commercial cars at the funeral home---limos, hearses, lead cars, etc. In the old days we had hearse/ambulance combo's as well. Those were quite powerful but watch out on a curve---they wallowed all over the place! Like most large American cars of the era----they wouldn't handle worth a damn!
 
Thanks Drhardee

I have referenced that site quite a bit while working on the A/C. I was trying to locate a POA valve (and find out what one is) and found some useful info on the site. POA valves are very hard to find or are expensive when you find them. So, I bought a conversion to delete it since I'm not fixing the car up for show. I will probably join the Lincoln Continental owner's club in the next year.

Currently, my dream Lincoln (see below) is on ebay, but I don't have the funds to get it. I'm guessing reserve is $10,000-$15,000 but these cars can bring quite a bit more.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...RK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=150122528428&rd=1,1
5-22-2007-17-42-58--58limited.jpg
 
Lincolns

I used to own an excellent condition, first series 1969 Lincoln Mark III, and of course it had the 460 engine.

Got about 5 miles a gallon, but even after 35 years (I sold it in 2004 after a year of owning it) that tank could sure take off like a rocket if need be.

I also much prefer the 460. The dumbed-down engine they forced on the public by 1979 produced little savings at the pump and big losses in power.

A shame made worse because the beautiful Collectors' Series was available only in 1979 before the Town Car was totally redesigned and downsized for 1980. At least the Mark VI survived until 1983.
 

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