cfz2882
Well-known member
seal collet
miele does not sell that collet as a seperate piece?
miele does not sell that collet as a seperate piece?
Miele W1918 Bearings
- Thread starter GrahamW
- Start date
"miele does not sell that collet as a seperate piece?"
It remains to be seen. The shaft and spider are neither shown in the exploded parts diagram nor described in the parts listing Miele sent me. The collet/seal landing may be shown as #5 in the diagram, but there is no description or part # for it.
It remains to be seen. The shaft and spider are neither shown in the exploded parts diagram nor described in the parts listing Miele sent me. The collet/seal landing may be shown as #5 in the diagram, but there is no description or part # for it.
launderess
Well-known member
Well, That Depends
Upon what you consider the useful life of front loading washing machine.
Miele boasts (at least as far as their older models are concerned), some of the longest, if not the longest life span. While the oft used quote is "twenty years tested performance", what Miele actually means that under tested conditions (about two or three wash loads per day), a washer of a vintage period should last on average about twenty years.
However in your case, as probably many others whom have purchased used Miele units, the conditions of previous use are known. Constant over loading of the washer, use of wrong and or too much detergent, and or other forms of "abuse", would cause parts to wear out sooner than they should.
From what one has read on various European washer forums, lower final spin washers tend on balance to out last those with speeds >1200.
The 1900 series was Miele's first with spin speeds at 1600rpms. As noted upthread using high speed spin speeds with unbalanced loads more than one should, is going to have an effect on some parts.
My guess is somewhere in Germany at sometime, someone sat down and ran the numbers. How long should bearings, seals, shaft et al other parts last under "normal" condition, cost of repair (if parts go under warranty), expected duty life cycle, and other factors to reach a number for making part specs.
Upon what you consider the useful life of front loading washing machine.
Miele boasts (at least as far as their older models are concerned), some of the longest, if not the longest life span. While the oft used quote is "twenty years tested performance", what Miele actually means that under tested conditions (about two or three wash loads per day), a washer of a vintage period should last on average about twenty years.
However in your case, as probably many others whom have purchased used Miele units, the conditions of previous use are known. Constant over loading of the washer, use of wrong and or too much detergent, and or other forms of "abuse", would cause parts to wear out sooner than they should.
From what one has read on various European washer forums, lower final spin washers tend on balance to out last those with speeds >1200.
The 1900 series was Miele's first with spin speeds at 1600rpms. As noted upthread using high speed spin speeds with unbalanced loads more than one should, is going to have an effect on some parts.
My guess is somewhere in Germany at sometime, someone sat down and ran the numbers. How long should bearings, seals, shaft et al other parts last under "normal" condition, cost of repair (if parts go under warranty), expected duty life cycle, and other factors to reach a number for making part specs.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
That scale is most likely limestone - the product of washing soda (sodium carbonate) combining with calcium and/or magnesium in the tap water AND in the dirt in the soil on the laundry and forming an insoluble precipitate.
One way to help prevent this sort of thing is to use a good non-precipitating water softener, such as STPP, with every load.
As for the spider - I'm wondering if it's cast magnetic stainless steel. That sort of alloy can be corroded, a bit, but nowhere near as quickly as a regular steel would get corroded.
When my Neptune had its three year mark rebuild, I got to see the spider. It's aluminum and rather beefy, but it had turned jet black with all the hot water loads, perhaps also due to the phosphates in the mix. The original spider had cracked (probably a mfg defect). It's been running fine with phosphates on the replacement spider for the past seven years.
As for pulling the bearing... I would suggest using a three-jaw puller next time (Pep Boys has a good one for about $50). Less chance of the bearing cocking and making the removal more difficult than it need be. And of course I'm sure you must have used a penetrant like PB Blast, which is great for freeing corroded fasteners etc.
One way to help prevent this sort of thing is to use a good non-precipitating water softener, such as STPP, with every load.
As for the spider - I'm wondering if it's cast magnetic stainless steel. That sort of alloy can be corroded, a bit, but nowhere near as quickly as a regular steel would get corroded.
When my Neptune had its three year mark rebuild, I got to see the spider. It's aluminum and rather beefy, but it had turned jet black with all the hot water loads, perhaps also due to the phosphates in the mix. The original spider had cracked (probably a mfg defect). It's been running fine with phosphates on the replacement spider for the past seven years.
As for pulling the bearing... I would suggest using a three-jaw puller next time (Pep Boys has a good one for about $50). Less chance of the bearing cocking and making the removal more difficult than it need be. And of course I'm sure you must have used a penetrant like PB Blast, which is great for freeing corroded fasteners etc.
Spider Construction
Having seen Graham’s last photograph, in post 498433, I have to revise my idea of the number of pieces that constitute the spider. The hub and arms are obviously one piece, not the four I previously thought. The welding close to the edge of the hub appeared to run down the side of the arm, however the latest photograph clearly shows otherwise.
Graham’s notation that the area under the flange of the seal collar is machined leads me to believe that the attachment of the shaft to the hub is by a penetration weld (full or partial) that has then been machined to give a smooth landing for the collar and whatever seals it to the spider. The photograph in post 498059 also shows welding outside the line of the plug, and also extending over the natural line of spider. I have to ask myself why is there welding that far out from what would appear to be the normally expected diameter of the shaft. The only thing I can think of is a penetration weld (full or partial) to attach the shaft to the hub.
The point about the seal landing not being replaceable, with a manufacturer’s supplied spare, on its own, is well taken. The arrangement is the same for the Frigidaire (Electrolux) built machine shown in post 498060. You have to purchase the whole spider and drum assembly just to obtain a new seal landing, should you follow the manufacturer’s instructions.
Reading this thread and others I am led to believe that Miele have changed the material of their spiders from steel to an aluminium alloy.
Having seen Graham’s last photograph, in post 498433, I have to revise my idea of the number of pieces that constitute the spider. The hub and arms are obviously one piece, not the four I previously thought. The welding close to the edge of the hub appeared to run down the side of the arm, however the latest photograph clearly shows otherwise.
Graham’s notation that the area under the flange of the seal collar is machined leads me to believe that the attachment of the shaft to the hub is by a penetration weld (full or partial) that has then been machined to give a smooth landing for the collar and whatever seals it to the spider. The photograph in post 498059 also shows welding outside the line of the plug, and also extending over the natural line of spider. I have to ask myself why is there welding that far out from what would appear to be the normally expected diameter of the shaft. The only thing I can think of is a penetration weld (full or partial) to attach the shaft to the hub.
The point about the seal landing not being replaceable, with a manufacturer’s supplied spare, on its own, is well taken. The arrangement is the same for the Frigidaire (Electrolux) built machine shown in post 498060. You have to purchase the whole spider and drum assembly just to obtain a new seal landing, should you follow the manufacturer’s instructions.
Reading this thread and others I am led to believe that Miele have changed the material of their spiders from steel to an aluminium alloy.
launderess
Well-known member
Well I'm No Model But No One Disputes How I Wear Clothe
*LOL*
Methinks the shaft does not come separately and is part of the inner drum as a unit. Thus one would need a new inner drum & the rear drum bearing assembly kits/clips, and so froth.
One says this because to our mind's eye how could the shaft, a part which literally supports the weight of the tub, especially when full of wet laundry, be "replaced" without making sure a new part was so affixed to the drum as to continue that function.
Far eaiser to do a repair by swapping out drums and replacing bearings/seals/clips, etc than pfaffing around trying to remove and replace an old shaft. I mean who is going to do the welding?
*LOL*
Methinks the shaft does not come separately and is part of the inner drum as a unit. Thus one would need a new inner drum & the rear drum bearing assembly kits/clips, and so froth.
One says this because to our mind's eye how could the shaft, a part which literally supports the weight of the tub, especially when full of wet laundry, be "replaced" without making sure a new part was so affixed to the drum as to continue that function.
Far eaiser to do a repair by swapping out drums and replacing bearings/seals/clips, etc than pfaffing around trying to remove and replace an old shaft. I mean who is going to do the welding?
3beltwesty
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My take as a Mechanical engineer is that shaft, seal sleeve and Y shafted steel Spider is one assembly when the unit is made; but it may or may not be an item one can purchase as a repair item.
You will have to ask them.
It may only be bundled with the stainless steel spin basket too. Thus one has to buy the "spin basket + shaft with seal surface + spider"
Unless you ask them you will never know.
Since item #11 just shows the spin basket and the spider and shaft is hidden behind it; my gut feeling is #11 might be : "spin basket + shaft with seal surface + spider".
Some front load Sears washers have one having to buy the spin basket too; when the spider breaks since they do not sell the spider/shafts by itself.
If a new seal's mating diameter is smaller than that shaft's sealing sleeves wear features; the new seal can still seal OK. On could make another sleeve out of brass and replace the old one if a machinist too.
If you were on a desert island of on a budget one would just use the old spider with new ball bearings and new seals and roll the dice. It might last 2 to 10 years too.
A purist with a oil well will have you replacing all worn stuff. A Sears basket & Spider assembly on some machines was sometimes 250 to 350 with shipping. A Meile would be more>
Contact Miele and find out what #11 costs and is it with the spider/shaft; or can one buy it as a separate item.
Launderess ; one Westinghouse FL washers made from about 1940 to 1988 the shaft is replaceable if worn. The shaft screws in with a left hand thread and is a replaceable item. The spin basket on these machines only turns one way; thus the thread is self locking. In more modern machines the trend is the shaft is part of a spider and not replaceable. Without looking at the Miele more it is not clear if it is splined, screwed in; or dropped in a counterbore/hole and welded. If I designed that part I would have the spider as one piece and the shaft made as another piece then them assembled/pressed and then welded. If the Miele rotates both CCW and CW the shaft is not screwed in; unless it is tack welded at the top.
You will have to ask them.
It may only be bundled with the stainless steel spin basket too. Thus one has to buy the "spin basket + shaft with seal surface + spider"
Unless you ask them you will never know.
Since item #11 just shows the spin basket and the spider and shaft is hidden behind it; my gut feeling is #11 might be : "spin basket + shaft with seal surface + spider".
Some front load Sears washers have one having to buy the spin basket too; when the spider breaks since they do not sell the spider/shafts by itself.
If a new seal's mating diameter is smaller than that shaft's sealing sleeves wear features; the new seal can still seal OK. On could make another sleeve out of brass and replace the old one if a machinist too.
If you were on a desert island of on a budget one would just use the old spider with new ball bearings and new seals and roll the dice. It might last 2 to 10 years too.
A purist with a oil well will have you replacing all worn stuff. A Sears basket & Spider assembly on some machines was sometimes 250 to 350 with shipping. A Meile would be more>
Contact Miele and find out what #11 costs and is it with the spider/shaft; or can one buy it as a separate item.
Launderess ; one Westinghouse FL washers made from about 1940 to 1988 the shaft is replaceable if worn. The shaft screws in with a left hand thread and is a replaceable item. The spin basket on these machines only turns one way; thus the thread is self locking. In more modern machines the trend is the shaft is part of a spider and not replaceable. Without looking at the Miele more it is not clear if it is splined, screwed in; or dropped in a counterbore/hole and welded. If I designed that part I would have the spider as one piece and the shaft made as another piece then them assembled/pressed and then welded. If the Miele rotates both CCW and CW the shaft is not screwed in; unless it is tack welded at the top.
launderess
Well-known member
Well I Guess We Will Never Know!
*LOL*
*LOL*
It's a parts machine
Miele Canada wants $200+ for the inner bearing and seal and another $75 for the outer bearing. The spider/drum is not available in Canada. I enquired about the condition of the spider in an e-mail (with pictures attached) but, Miele Canada does not provide technical support via e-mail. I've had no response from Miele, USA. I could get bearings for much less on ebay from Europe but I can't see the point given the likelihood of the the seal leaking due to the shaft wear and the prospect of rusty whites from the spider. There have actually been quite a few W19xx series machines showing up on kijiji/craigslist here and given their age + the cost of parts, I think it is fair to conclude these machines are nearing the end of their useful life for most people.
So, I'm going back to my original plan which was to swap the electronics/timer/controls (and anything else needed) from the W1918 and put it into my W1903 (which shows no signs of bearing trouble). The latter works fine, but the door seal is torn and leaks slightly. With these new smart-grid electric meters, my wife has been complaining that we needed a count-down/delay timer for the washer. That was the impetus for picking up the W1918 in the first place. If we limit the spin speed to 1200rpm, I hope it will last a few more years or at least until the kids are out of diapers. This will also leave me with a fair selection of used parts if I have any failures. The remainder of the W1918 will likely go for scrap which, by the sounds of it, is pretty much the only cost-effective thing you can do once the bearings go.
If there is anything else anyone would like a photo of, let me know.
Miele Canada wants $200+ for the inner bearing and seal and another $75 for the outer bearing. The spider/drum is not available in Canada. I enquired about the condition of the spider in an e-mail (with pictures attached) but, Miele Canada does not provide technical support via e-mail. I've had no response from Miele, USA. I could get bearings for much less on ebay from Europe but I can't see the point given the likelihood of the the seal leaking due to the shaft wear and the prospect of rusty whites from the spider. There have actually been quite a few W19xx series machines showing up on kijiji/craigslist here and given their age + the cost of parts, I think it is fair to conclude these machines are nearing the end of their useful life for most people.
So, I'm going back to my original plan which was to swap the electronics/timer/controls (and anything else needed) from the W1918 and put it into my W1903 (which shows no signs of bearing trouble). The latter works fine, but the door seal is torn and leaks slightly. With these new smart-grid electric meters, my wife has been complaining that we needed a count-down/delay timer for the washer. That was the impetus for picking up the W1918 in the first place. If we limit the spin speed to 1200rpm, I hope it will last a few more years or at least until the kids are out of diapers. This will also leave me with a fair selection of used parts if I have any failures. The remainder of the W1918 will likely go for scrap which, by the sounds of it, is pretty much the only cost-effective thing you can do once the bearings go.
If there is anything else anyone would like a photo of, let me know.
3beltwesty
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If one has to buy the seal via ; " Miele Canada wants $200+ for the inner bearing and seal" it means even if the outer bearing costs 30 via ebay one has 230 invested.
Unless one has a new seal; it too is difficult so so the margin left with a worn shaft seal feature.
In the USA the old 1976 westy mostly has its seal plus 2 bearings hawked in the 35 to 75 buck range. A few rare folks stock the seal only and it is about 15 bucks. In the past at times nobody carried the seal; and thus one was forced to by the set.
That seal alone in Europe is probably 10 to 20 bucks on some shelf; but one might go broke in trying to find one.
Thus I understand now how it is a parts machine only for you.
Unless one has a new seal; it too is difficult so so the margin left with a worn shaft seal feature.
In the USA the old 1976 westy mostly has its seal plus 2 bearings hawked in the 35 to 75 buck range. A few rare folks stock the seal only and it is about 15 bucks. In the past at times nobody carried the seal; and thus one was forced to by the set.
That seal alone in Europe is probably 10 to 20 bucks on some shelf; but one might go broke in trying to find one.
Thus I understand now how it is a parts machine only for you.
launderess
Well-known member
Am Sorry To Hear....
By contractual obligations Miele USA will not render service, advice, sell parts to etc anyone in Canada, and vice versa for the Canadian Miele. I know this because once called the later about ordering some parts (back when the USA was high against the CDN $), and was promply told the lay of the land.
Was also told if you purchase a Miele appliance in either country and move across the border, don't look for warranty service etc in your new home, if anything. Again see above.
Miele Canada probably never had many of the spiders and or drums to begin with, and as the series went out of production, no further orders were placed. It could also be the parts were ordered as needed from Germany for a warranty repair (the only way Miele does this sort of work down here), and now with the series out of production they don't bother anymore.
Do feel your pain and am that sorry you went into all that effort only to be let down at the last moment.
Whilst ordering the spare bearings and seals from Europe *may* be doable, I'm with you on forgetting about the drum/spider. They are too large, heavy and would have to go probably via freight. This would not be inexpensive.
By contractual obligations Miele USA will not render service, advice, sell parts to etc anyone in Canada, and vice versa for the Canadian Miele. I know this because once called the later about ordering some parts (back when the USA was high against the CDN $), and was promply told the lay of the land.
Was also told if you purchase a Miele appliance in either country and move across the border, don't look for warranty service etc in your new home, if anything. Again see above.
Miele Canada probably never had many of the spiders and or drums to begin with, and as the series went out of production, no further orders were placed. It could also be the parts were ordered as needed from Germany for a warranty repair (the only way Miele does this sort of work down here), and now with the series out of production they don't bother anymore.
Do feel your pain and am that sorry you went into all that effort only to be let down at the last moment.
Whilst ordering the spare bearings and seals from Europe *may* be doable, I'm with you on forgetting about the drum/spider. They are too large, heavy and would have to go probably via freight. This would not be inexpensive.
launderess
Well-known member
Er, Not Exactly
I'd add "used" to that phrase, and even there it doesn't apply here.
OP stated upthread when he purchased the unit the seller explained there were some "issues" with the washer, but didn't know all of them. Many persons do not realise when bearings are going, and simply continue to use the washer until things get bad, such as rust and or other stains on laundry, and or the final certain "jet taking off" sound of bearings totally shot.
If the unit was new back in it's day and under warranty, Miele would have been contractually bound to either fix the problem, or offer a solution. Usually the later involves simply replacing the entire unit with a new one.
I'd add "used" to that phrase, and even there it doesn't apply here.
OP stated upthread when he purchased the unit the seller explained there were some "issues" with the washer, but didn't know all of them. Many persons do not realise when bearings are going, and simply continue to use the washer until things get bad, such as rust and or other stains on laundry, and or the final certain "jet taking off" sound of bearings totally shot.
If the unit was new back in it's day and under warranty, Miele would have been contractually bound to either fix the problem, or offer a solution. Usually the later involves simply replacing the entire unit with a new one.
3beltwesty
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How old is that Miele?
I thought your used Miele was a decade or more older; thus probably it served a decent lifetime?
Most folks do not have bearings replaced on a washing machine once a seal leaks and ruins them. Then replace the washer.
Here is a June 2010 link of a person who has owned a Miele W1918 for a decade:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t5020983-miele_w1918_washer_worked
I thought your used Miele was a decade or more older; thus probably it served a decent lifetime?
Most folks do not have bearings replaced on a washing machine once a seal leaks and ruins them. Then replace the washer.
Here is a June 2010 link of a person who has owned a Miele W1918 for a decade:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t5020983-miele_w1918_washer_worked
To reiterate, I knew there was likely a bearing/mechanical issue given by how the drum felt. It was purchased for the door seal, electronics/timer (the front door seal alone was worth the price I paid for it) but I figured that I might as well disassemble it to see what the issue was. I have the tools so it cost me nothing but a few evenings out in the garage. If it was simply $200 worth of bearings to restore the machine to perfect condition, I honestly wouldn't have hesitated.
To put everything in perspective, I own a W1903 and T1515 which were purchased used for $150 a few years ago. I paid $50 for the machine and I now have a box of spare washer parts that should keep me going for a while. I also have a spare dryer belt and motor. I couldn't buy anything comparable on the market for $200
We do 1 load of laundry every evening (diapers at 95C every other night) and a couple 'catch-up' loads every weekend.
Many thanks to everyone who offered advice along the way and I hope the photos/descriptions provide insight to anyone else considering such a repair.
To put everything in perspective, I own a W1903 and T1515 which were purchased used for $150 a few years ago. I paid $50 for the machine and I now have a box of spare washer parts that should keep me going for a while. I also have a spare dryer belt and motor. I couldn't buy anything comparable on the market for $200
We do 1 load of laundry every evening (diapers at 95C every other night) and a couple 'catch-up' loads every weekend.
Many thanks to everyone who offered advice along the way and I hope the photos/descriptions provide insight to anyone else considering such a repair.
3beltwesty
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Grahm; when you pull the elctronics you might spot some 4 digit electrical data codes on IC chips etc and find a clue as the rough date the washer was made. ie a 9803 date is 3rd week of 1998
Hi Graham,
You have done really well in removing the bearings carefully and not damaging the bearing collar. Also I would have given up when the bearings did not come out with the cross piece and got stuck on the shaft!.
Just seems you have done so much, to not complete the job now is to do yourself a big misfavour.
As for cost you can buy good quality bearings from anywhere at a tenth of the cost of getting them from Miele. The only genuuine Miele part I would insist upon is the bearing seal.
Go on finish the job!!
You have done really well in removing the bearings carefully and not damaging the bearing collar. Also I would have given up when the bearings did not come out with the cross piece and got stuck on the shaft!.
Just seems you have done so much, to not complete the job now is to do yourself a big misfavour.
As for cost you can buy good quality bearings from anywhere at a tenth of the cost of getting them from Miele. The only genuuine Miele part I would insist upon is the bearing seal.
Go on finish the job!!
launderess
Well-known member
Parts Spare Machine
Not a bad idea, considering the motor alone will run $1500 USD or more.
Am dreading what will happen when my 1070 gives up it's motor or bearings.
Lots of the 19XX series are being got shot of down this way as well. Methinks now that Miele offers larger sized washers,many consumers so inclinded feel they can trade up and not suffer "Miele Withdrawal".
Not a bad idea, considering the motor alone will run $1500 USD or more.
Am dreading what will happen when my 1070 gives up it's motor or bearings.
Lots of the 19XX series are being got shot of down this way as well. Methinks now that Miele offers larger sized washers,many consumers so inclinded feel they can trade up and not suffer "Miele Withdrawal".
sudsmaster
Well-known member
I purchased a used 1918A off Craigslist for $200 about five years ago. They had two for sale at the time; I wish I had gotten both! It's an excellent machine, and has given me no problems. I generally run one load a week in it - whites, at 160F. It does a great job with them.
I also have three W1065 washers. Only two are hooked up, though, and sometimes I'll run one of them along with the 1918A if I have extra stuff. The main washing goes on with a Maytag Neptune 7500 - which can handle larger loads and more bulky items, and is fine for things like colors and perm press that don't need high temps or high spin speeds but do benefit from more drum space to "spread out" in. Shop duds with metal chips or dust on them go into one of the W1065's, so as to try to keep that stuff out of the regular laundry cycle. The W1065's were even cheaper. I got two for $50 each, and another one (rip off in comparison) for $200. One of the $50 ones also included a stacked dryer, also not hooked up yet.
Anyway, aside from bragging about my Miele collection, yes, you can find them used for $200 or less on Craigslist or other venues. As usual, caveat emptor, but for that kind of money you're not going to be too far in the hole if they don't work out.
I do wonder, however, if it's not possible to get the bearings from a place like Grainger or other supplier. My understanding is that bearings are standardized, and if you have the right dimensions/specs you can get a generic version that might do the trick. Don't know about the seal, though. The damage to the shaft is more problematic. I suppose if it's not too bad it could be turned and polished but that would require a rather large lathe.
I also have three W1065 washers. Only two are hooked up, though, and sometimes I'll run one of them along with the 1918A if I have extra stuff. The main washing goes on with a Maytag Neptune 7500 - which can handle larger loads and more bulky items, and is fine for things like colors and perm press that don't need high temps or high spin speeds but do benefit from more drum space to "spread out" in. Shop duds with metal chips or dust on them go into one of the W1065's, so as to try to keep that stuff out of the regular laundry cycle. The W1065's were even cheaper. I got two for $50 each, and another one (rip off in comparison) for $200. One of the $50 ones also included a stacked dryer, also not hooked up yet.
Anyway, aside from bragging about my Miele collection, yes, you can find them used for $200 or less on Craigslist or other venues. As usual, caveat emptor, but for that kind of money you're not going to be too far in the hole if they don't work out.
I do wonder, however, if it's not possible to get the bearings from a place like Grainger or other supplier. My understanding is that bearings are standardized, and if you have the right dimensions/specs you can get a generic version that might do the trick. Don't know about the seal, though. The damage to the shaft is more problematic. I suppose if it's not too bad it could be turned and polished but that would require a rather large lathe.
3beltwesty
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Bearings are easy to find; it is the water SEAL that is the
.
.
cfz2882
Well-known member
seal
depending on design,seal may or may not be easy to get from non-miele
sources-when i did a bearing job on a 1998 "frigilux"i was able to get a
suitable seal from my local "carquest"auto parts store,it had the same
double lip design as original-cost around $13.00
Frigilux used 6306 and 6307 bearings-plenty stout.
depending on design,seal may or may not be easy to get from non-miele
sources-when i did a bearing job on a 1998 "frigilux"i was able to get a
suitable seal from my local "carquest"auto parts store,it had the same
double lip design as original-cost around $13.00
Frigilux used 6306 and 6307 bearings-plenty stout.
3beltwesty
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Washing machines have a special lip design
Seals in washing machines have a different lip angle than say a wheel bearing seal.
Seals in washing machines have a different lip angle than say a wheel bearing seal.
3beltwesty
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MIELE SEAL AND BEARING FAILURE
This has been an interesting disassembly and tear down. This problem was caused by a failure to use enough detergent for water conditions which caused the heavy mineral buildup which caused fast seal ware and resulted in bearing failure when water got past the seals. I have seen this hundreds of times. The solution is not so much periodic washer cleaning as just doing laundry properly in the first place. If you pay attention to what is going on in your washer or dishwasher it should never be necessary to run cleaners through them. Doing laundry improperly and then trying to clean up the mess periodically would be like not changing your cars oil for 50,000 miles at a time and trying to flush out the mess afterwards, the damage is already done its largely too late.
This has been an interesting disassembly and tear down. This problem was caused by a failure to use enough detergent for water conditions which caused the heavy mineral buildup which caused fast seal ware and resulted in bearing failure when water got past the seals. I have seen this hundreds of times. The solution is not so much periodic washer cleaning as just doing laundry properly in the first place. If you pay attention to what is going on in your washer or dishwasher it should never be necessary to run cleaners through them. Doing laundry improperly and then trying to clean up the mess periodically would be like not changing your cars oil for 50,000 miles at a time and trying to flush out the mess afterwards, the damage is already done its largely too late.
3beltwesty
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Combo52; the old 1976 Westy here was always used with a the minimum amount of detergent to do the job. One of out its two 6205 bearings had it's cage break in 2005; after 29 years of usage. It started to get noisier in the spin cycle about 1999; thus its seal was probably leaking then to cause the corrosion.
Thus with a machine that used the opposite of your claim of "This problem was caused by a failure to use enough detergent"; it ran 23 years until the seal leaked enough to cause a noisy spin cycle; and another 6 until one bearing cage failed; ie 29 years.
It is just you opinion that "failure to use enough detergent" causes seal failure.
Most folks use too much detergent ; and most washers at some have the seal fail.
Here the water is so soft that if another who vists and washes their clothes; one really needs no soap at all if they are from a hard water area.
All it takes is some sand to get on that seal and one can get massive wear.
I think the point you are trying to make is if one had really no detergent at ALL; one would have just water as a lubricant. Thus your theory is the seal wears less if one has enough soap, and the typical seal failure is thus due to lack of detergents?
The 1976 westy has a brass surface/ring where the seal contacts. Westinghouse used his design for over 50 years.
Thus with a machine that used the opposite of your claim of "This problem was caused by a failure to use enough detergent"; it ran 23 years until the seal leaked enough to cause a noisy spin cycle; and another 6 until one bearing cage failed; ie 29 years.
It is just you opinion that "failure to use enough detergent" causes seal failure.
Most folks use too much detergent ; and most washers at some have the seal fail.
Here the water is so soft that if another who vists and washes their clothes; one really needs no soap at all if they are from a hard water area.
All it takes is some sand to get on that seal and one can get massive wear.
I think the point you are trying to make is if one had really no detergent at ALL; one would have just water as a lubricant. Thus your theory is the seal wears less if one has enough soap, and the typical seal failure is thus due to lack of detergents?
The 1976 westy has a brass surface/ring where the seal contacts. Westinghouse used his design for over 50 years.
Seal & Bearing Failure, Which Came First?
To COMBO52
I believe the photographs in this thread give sufficient evidence that there is a deposit on the spider and the centre area of the back of the drum. I further believe that using the dictionary definition of ‘mineral’ as ‘anything not animal or plant’ then these deposits are ‘mineral’. (Using that definition it could also be applied to the ’crud’ shown in the photographs of a machine I worked on shown in threads 29110 and 33198, therefore, my apologies for saying they were not ‘mineral’).
Now how have you deduced that the deposits in this Miele case are caused by too little detergent?
Bearing in mind your faulty diagnosis of seal failure leading to bearing failure in the case of the machine I worked on described in thread 29110. How have you deduced that in this Miele failure case the initial failure was by the seal and not the bearings? Quite honestly how can you be so adamant is beyond me.
I look forward to your comments
To COMBO52
I believe the photographs in this thread give sufficient evidence that there is a deposit on the spider and the centre area of the back of the drum. I further believe that using the dictionary definition of ‘mineral’ as ‘anything not animal or plant’ then these deposits are ‘mineral’. (Using that definition it could also be applied to the ’crud’ shown in the photographs of a machine I worked on shown in threads 29110 and 33198, therefore, my apologies for saying they were not ‘mineral’).
Now how have you deduced that the deposits in this Miele case are caused by too little detergent?
Bearing in mind your faulty diagnosis of seal failure leading to bearing failure in the case of the machine I worked on described in thread 29110. How have you deduced that in this Miele failure case the initial failure was by the seal and not the bearings? Quite honestly how can you be so adamant is beyond me.
I look forward to your comments
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
your lucky to be able to have it fix
your can consider yourself lucky to be able to have it fix as most repair comp today would say to buy a new machine 1 of my aunts had to have a tech come to fix something on her fridge is it was not for her recipe and warrenty papers the tech would of told her to buy a brand new fridge well i do hope that you will be able to have it fix all i can say is good luck
your can consider yourself lucky to be able to have it fix as most repair comp today would say to buy a new machine 1 of my aunts had to have a tech come to fix something on her fridge is it was not for her recipe and warrenty papers the tech would of told her to buy a brand new fridge well i do hope that you will be able to have it fix all i can say is good luck
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