Miele W1918 Bearings

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What is the white stuff that that is one the lower image's drum spider by the shaft?

Can you post a higher res image of spider?

I want to see if if is a casting or forging, or machined.
 
Thanks for posting the above photos. Perhaps I do have a pug metal casting of some sort on the inner tub. We'll see what it looks like when I finally get the bearing race is free and I'll snap a few good photos of it. Given the exploded diagram and the parts list I have, I don't believe that piece is separately available from the drum.
 
Photos

The photos above I posted are the only resolution I have unfortunately - I found them a while back on a google search. I did email Miele about what my W3033's spider was made from and they advised the following. I don't know if it's the same solid spider in the above photos or not, but I do know it bolts on the same way - a rod clear through each of the drum baffles and a nut on the front of the tub can be seen if you peel back the boot a bit. I would imagine it's the same spider design, since my W3033 is the Generation 2000 chassis design.

In 20 years when mine needs new bearings I'll post photos LOL

Per Miele:

"The bearings for the W 3033 are made of hardened steel. The spider which is on the back of the inner drum is made of a cast metal combination of aluminium and magnesium."

Andrew
 
Before using a flamed torch I use a hairdryer; or better yet a heat gun for electrical tubing shrinking. Time is your friend in the matter too. ie hide the hammer for awhile and just wicking stuff and heat so the shaft is not ruined in hasty event. If that race is heated with a heat gun it often will open up a tiny gap and the PB nutblaster or Kroil can get down deeper.

If one grabs the inner race with a wrench and tries to turn it a tad; I assume the shaft is in the spider so this might not be a great thing to do. Sometimes in machine work we use to wrap the shaft in rubber then key it in lathes locked chuck to hold the shaft still while a bearing race was tired to be turned and pulled off.
 
Not yet

"If one grabs the inner race with a wrench and tries to turn it a tad; I assume the shaft is in the spider so this might not be a great thing to do. Sometimes in machine work we use to wrap the shaft in rubber then key it in lathes locked chuck to hold the shaft still while a bearing race was tired to be turned and pulled off."

Miele didn't cheap out on these bearings... After spending an hour, I have 3 deep vertical cuts in the inner race but I'm no further ahead. Tried the puller hoping it would shear apart but no luck. Will try again tomorrow night once the kids are in bed.

I do wish I had a better option to hold the shaft when I tighten down the puller or, as you say, a pipe wrench on the race. A 4-jaw lathe chuck might work if the shaft didn't have an awkward, 100 lb stainless drum assembly attached to it ;)
 
Dynomite

A stick of TNT might be your next best option :) Keep at it, it'll come apart eventually. Might try a dremel to weaken that race until it finally breaks off. Would be much easier than trying to use anything else that I can think of.

Can you take the front of the outer drum off, and take the drum / spider out of the outer tub? it might give you more room to work on pulling that stubborn bearing off the shaft, and a lot less weight to muscle around with while trying to.
 
White Deposits On Spider

I too would be interested to know what the ‘white stuff’ at the centre of the spider is. I asked the same question on another thread on this site but received no response. I suspect it is products of corrosion between the aluminium of the spider hub and the alkaline laundry products used. As I have stated before even the fastest spin will not get rid of the ‘water’ in this area and this ‘water’ will evaporate until the concentration of the ‘laundry aids’ remaining reaches a level where corrosion occurs.
 
It's appart. I decided to remove the inner drum to as I really didn't have clearance to cut the bearing race with the stainless tub so close. I needed to use a pair of shears and cut away the spring seal (# 4 in the diagram) so I could push the shaft through the tub. In the end, I basically needed to split the race to get it off. It took an hour and a half to separate the drum and cut the race but I was careful enough not to hit the shaft so everything looks ok. I'll obviously need new seals, spring clip and bearings to rebuild it. Some photos in the posts that follow.

grahamw++2-19-2011-19-12-50.jpg
 
Another photo

Here's the bearing which shows the swiss-cheese groove I needed to make. A few light hammer taps with a punch and it was free.

grahamw++2-19-2011-19-14-56.jpg
 
I'll clean up the inner drum and post a few better photos of the spider but here's what it looked like when I pulled it.

grahamw++2-19-2011-19-17-1.jpg
 
Seal Landing

I hate to say it but it looks like the brass sleeve for the seal landing is grooved in a couple of places. I doubt that it is supposed to be like that.

As for the deposit on the drum that does not look like the products of corrosion to me. Additionally, it appears that it is the same sort of deposit on the spider. It will be interesting to see what the spider looks like when it is cleaned up.

Thanks, I really appreciate the chance to view the photographs.
 
Seal landing

On the old fl westinghouse the feature on the shaft that contacts the seal is brass and the shaft is replaceable since the 3 belt only turns one way. Ie the shaft is screwed into the drum. One units that rotate both ways the shaft may not be replaceable. The seals mating surface has to be smooth but often not mirror smooth. Often a worn surface will work if touched up with 400 or 600 paper rotated like shaft rotation. A line on the old shaft is normal. The pickle is if it still is larger than the new seal. Limeys concern is good. Good to see you got the inner race off. You can use stainless steel ball bearings too. I did this with a recent rebuild. Ss ball bearings have a lessor rating maybe 80 to 90 percent of 52100 ball bearing steel. But are more robust for corrosion. The 6205 bb here are used in snow mobiles in stainless thus not too expensive
 
"I hate to say it but it looks like the brass sleeve for the seal landing is grooved in a couple of places. I doubt that it is supposed to be like that."

I noticed that in the photo as well, but didn't see it when I was in the garage. It might be the camera flash catching the light a little but I take a good look tomorrow when I get a chance to clean it up. From the diagram way up in this thread, I'm wondering if that is part #5? I think I'll put in a call to Miele next week and see if I can talk to someone knowledgable about these machines to confirm what exactly needs to be done to get her working as she should.

grahamw++2-19-2011-21-03-38.jpg.gif
 
Thanks!

Really appreciate the close up photos of the drum spider and shaft. I'd say that the spider looks to be in excellent condition vs some I've seen on other washers that totally crumble from corrosion.

I plan to do a yearly descaling of my Miele and I do monthly maintenance washes to hopefully prevent any buildup on the drum spider. I wonder if possibly that buildup gets in behind the drum seal and causes it to leak into the drum bearings?

Any idea of how many operating hours are on your machine? Not sure if there is a way to check on older Mieles, but mine has 897 hours as of tonight. The main bearings are rated to last at least 20,000 hours, so I'm right on track for 20 year life of this machine. I've had it just over a year now.

Andrew
 
Scale

To grahamW
I have to agree the seal landing sleeve may be the item show as #5 in the diagram early in the thread. The question that springs to my mind is: “should it be replaceable how on earth are you supposed to be able to get it off the shaft of the spider”. I know it could be ‘turned off’ with a large enough lathe but how many appliance repair techs have that sort of equipment in the back of their van?
I have given the composition of the scale on the inner tub and the spider some more thought and I have come to the conclusion it is likely (not positive at this time) the re-deposition of dissolved salts from the tap water as it (the tap water) evaporates. Any thoughts on this anyone?
 
".... Back of Trucks.."

This isn't the sort of thing Miele will do in a person's home, not at least in the United States anyway.

Should Miele decide a bearing replacement is required, and will do the work at all, the washer must return to the corporate workshop in New Jersey.

Methinks the only way Miele would do this work is a warranty repair and who knows if even then. Probably would have been less bother simply to give the customer a new washer.

Cost of transporting the unit to and from NJ is about $1500 USD, then one would have to add the costs of parts and labour. When all is said and done you are probably looking at near or over 2500 to 3000 USD.

Being as this may, there seems to be quite allot of bearing replacement work done on all models of front loaders in Europe, even as a DIY project. To be fair those on that side of the pond have had >thirty years of front loaders as the main washing machine. So it is very likely many repairmen have the tools "in back of their truck" or perhaps their own workshop for the job.
 
With the new 1976 Westinghouse Front load washer bought in 1976, its 6205 bearings started to get noisy about say roughly 2000 ish; ie 24 years of usage. The machine still was used with noisy bearing noise until the one closest to the water seal had it's cage break about a month before Katrina in 2005. The machine actually still would wash but sounded like a wild mess in the spin cycle. If one had to one could wash and rinse and use the clothes line.

The back/rear 6205 ball bearing technically is shot; it has more than the classical 10 percent area on its bearing races pitted. Still that bearing in the rear really was never all rusted either, and really could if one had to be reused if one was on a desert island. The bearings from 1976 are from Japan; NTN bearings.

Thus from a ball bearings purists standpoint one got 24 years until one got bearing noise, and 29 years before an actual failure of the products purpose due to ONE out of two bearings.

"failure" is often based on Harris/Skf's criteria of 10 percent pitting by surface area of the races.

"failure" too can be defined when the device no longer works as designed; like the 29 years and then the front bearings cage started to come apart and some of the balls were not equally spaced.

"failure" can be too by just noise and customers complain. Often a ball bearing can go 10 times longer with being noisy.

The washer is different; the ball bearings once the water seal fails dies 100 time quicker once exposed to open water and soap.

Thus classical ball bearing life almost never gets hit with a washer; the leaky seal cuts it short by 10 to 200 times. The primary failure is corrosion ude to the seal leaking.

Its is like if some health food freaks who never smoked or drinked wanted to live to be 120; but all take up skydiving, playing with sharks; playing in the freeway; going off to war zones without helmets; ie many die much sooner than the "planned 120 years".

The seal's LIFE really is the key; when it fails the ball bearings die radically sooner.

If the seal still is smaller than the shafts "seal surface" the seal can still work. IF the seals matings surface is too rough the new seal will fail quicker; the seals "lips" are worn off. Thus the seal's mating surface really has to be touched up, smoothed. This might be a lost art, eons ago folks rebuilt water pumps in cars and it was super common; yea! in the usa 6 volt car era! :)

I would not even try to get the shaft off or think about it until I had an actual NEW seal to test the shafts seal surface.
 
What is the material made of that the Miele Seal mates with?

Here are the two 6205 bearings on a 1976 Westy FL washer's shaft.

The water seal bares/mates with the brass feature on the steel shaft 5303261165.

The brass feature is that different colored area at the left of the NEW left 6205 ball bearing.

The ball bearing at the right is the original ball bearing from 1976 that came out of the unit in 2005 and still functioned 29 years later. That is the rear bearing. It has a less harsh life that the front guy. It is farther from the water, it has a lessor load too. it is pampered and is not in a war zone like the ball bearing by the water seal

This actual shaft with its scores on its brass feature was in the unit again from 2006 to 2010 this fall and the new seal of 2006 did not leak. This shaft is not being replaced today; not due to the seal area; but the wear to the right of the right bearing; where the potato pulleys roller bearing mates.

The link shows how the shaft is worn.

***Graham; It is not clear if you Miele's seal "bares" against steel; or is it a brass feature that is all dirty.


3beltwesty++2-20-2011-19-27-26.jpg
 

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