richnz
Well-known member
So are there TWO sets of brushes?
One set for washing and another for spinning?
One set for washing and another for spinning?
Miele Washer Woes
- Thread starter launderess
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No, only the spin motor has brushes.
IIRC Miele used the same cast iron behemoth motor
For several series of washers before the 1900. In any event the thing is a big and very heavy cast iron affair. Basically two motors sandwiched together; one for tumbling the other handles spinning.
Problem is the brushes are located at the front of motor which cannot be gotten at easily from the front service door. The only two options besides removing the drums and all that entails is to either take the entire motor out from the front, or try to swap out the brushes leaving the motor in place but from underneath (tipping washer on side).
Am guessing because of the weight of motor (and resulting complaints from technicians), MieleUSA made a decision at some point that brush changes/motor repairs would no longer happen on site; but the entire washer shipped back to Princeton, NJ. One older Miele tech one spoke with years ago said he put his back out getting a motor out and back into a 1065 and wouldn't do it again for love nor money.
For several series of washers before the 1900. In any event the thing is a big and very heavy cast iron affair. Basically two motors sandwiched together; one for tumbling the other handles spinning.
Problem is the brushes are located at the front of motor which cannot be gotten at easily from the front service door. The only two options besides removing the drums and all that entails is to either take the entire motor out from the front, or try to swap out the brushes leaving the motor in place but from underneath (tipping washer on side).
Am guessing because of the weight of motor (and resulting complaints from technicians), MieleUSA made a decision at some point that brush changes/motor repairs would no longer happen on site; but the entire washer shipped back to Princeton, NJ. One older Miele tech one spoke with years ago said he put his back out getting a motor out and back into a 1065 and wouldn't do it again for love nor money.
galavoxx
Member
It won't enter the spin cycle at all. I don't think it's the brushes since the drum will turn slightly left then right on it's own and then when it clicks over to the spin function on the timer, it simply doesn't spin. Usually worn brushes will also have a ton of carbon dust under the motor itself. This is not the case here and it was spinning just fine with no issues then all the sudden, it stopped going into spin mode.
I did find that one of the contact points on the control board was slightly burned looking and the contact plug itself had a worn spot, as if it was arcing electricity there and possibly burned. I might contact Miele today to find out if they still have this control board part T-Nr. 2085230.
I did find that one of the contact points on the control board was slightly burned looking and the contact plug itself had a worn spot, as if it was arcing electricity there and possibly burned. I might contact Miele today to find out if they still have this control board part T-Nr. 2085230.
You have two options really
Try to self diagnose and repair, or call out MieleUSA for one or both.
Mind you it is becoming difficult to get technicians from Miele who have even seen the older washers/dryers much less worked on them. Years ago was told that MieleUSA no longer trains new service technicians on anything older than the 1900 series or even the later 1000/1200 series.
That being said spoke with a great telephone tech in California last year (called Miele near 5PM and was switched over), who though young remembered the 1065/1070 washers well. He said as part of his training was required to take apart and rebuild that huge motor.
It is possible to find service manuals online for the 1900 series, but have yet to get one for the 1065/1070. You can look at the 1900 service manuals and see if anything applies in terms of troubleshooting, but think the two are different beasts.
Try to self diagnose and repair, or call out MieleUSA for one or both.
Mind you it is becoming difficult to get technicians from Miele who have even seen the older washers/dryers much less worked on them. Years ago was told that MieleUSA no longer trains new service technicians on anything older than the 1900 series or even the later 1000/1200 series.
That being said spoke with a great telephone tech in California last year (called Miele near 5PM and was switched over), who though young remembered the 1065/1070 washers well. He said as part of his training was required to take apart and rebuild that huge motor.
It is possible to find service manuals online for the 1900 series, but have yet to get one for the 1065/1070. You can look at the 1900 service manuals and see if anything applies in terms of troubleshooting, but think the two are different beasts.
galavoxx
Member
I will look for that manual. Thanks for the help!
Meanwhile on the other side of the Pond
There are washer hobbyists who can and do take apart/repair Miele and other washers in their homes or garage spaces.
There are washer hobbyists who can and do take apart/repair Miele and other washers in their homes or garage spaces.
richnz
Well-known member
In some machines
spinning does not occur until "it" is sure there is no water in the tub.
From the service manual comes this.
In order to improve rinsing results, the wash cycle motor continues with its normal agitation during drainage steps until water levels subside and the relevant reset point is reached.
If a drain cycle is followed by a spin cycle, the loosening rhythm is operative for the remainder of the drainage step once the reset point has been reached.
My question is what happens if the reset point is not reached?
Does it continue with the loosening rhythm until the timer is up?
spinning does not occur until "it" is sure there is no water in the tub.
From the service manual comes this.
In order to improve rinsing results, the wash cycle motor continues with its normal agitation during drainage steps until water levels subside and the relevant reset point is reached.
If a drain cycle is followed by a spin cycle, the loosening rhythm is operative for the remainder of the drainage step once the reset point has been reached.
My question is what happens if the reset point is not reached?
Does it continue with the loosening rhythm until the timer is up?
Yes, it would continue until the timer is up. Such a thing can happen when for instance the filter is clogged or the drain hose is kinked.
richnz
Well-known member
or if
one of the breather hoses from the pump to the dispenser is clogged
one of the breather hoses from the pump to the dispenser is clogged
Am here to tell you
My 1070 will certainly spin if and or when there is water in the tub. Know this from several times in past having advanced the timer while machine is draining once that portion of cycle "timed out", washer went into spin. Don't know if it would have continued as always stopped the cycle.
While having electronics have found the 1000 series at least sold in USA are only just better than fully mechanical controlled washers. Yes, they will try to balance and redistribute loads, but when the timer says "Right Then!" and moves onto the next portion of cycle, that is what will happen. This probably explains the heavy/robust build quality of these washers. Miele certainly knew or and or expected a certain level of unbalanced spinning with heavy loads. Especially when you consider these washers do not spin loads at all until after three rinses.
One of the first things that went wrong with my Miele was it wouldn't spin at 1100. If that speed was selected machine would simply stop when timer reached that portion of cycle. If switch was set back to 900rpms or left there from the start, no problems. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Miele+w1070+won't+spin+site:www.automaticwasher.org
Miele came out and tech was able to get the machine to spin at 1100 by moving some wires. However that is when the messages began about "machine is old" "had brittle wiring", etc... began coming from MieleUSA. In order to source the reason why machine wasn't going into high speed spin would basically require taking out the motor and other bits, then tracing the problem via wiring diagram. It could have been many things said tech; relay, poor connection, etc.. But they flatly refused to have anything to do with removing motor/testing. Even my independent Miele guy wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
Since these machines lack self diagnostics the only real way to find out often what is wrong is by "going in" if you will. Then one applies a bit of Cat In The Hat logic; to find out what something is start by finding out what it is not. Speed switch, wiring, relay, electronic control, motor brushes, etc..
My 1070 will certainly spin if and or when there is water in the tub. Know this from several times in past having advanced the timer while machine is draining once that portion of cycle "timed out", washer went into spin. Don't know if it would have continued as always stopped the cycle.
While having electronics have found the 1000 series at least sold in USA are only just better than fully mechanical controlled washers. Yes, they will try to balance and redistribute loads, but when the timer says "Right Then!" and moves onto the next portion of cycle, that is what will happen. This probably explains the heavy/robust build quality of these washers. Miele certainly knew or and or expected a certain level of unbalanced spinning with heavy loads. Especially when you consider these washers do not spin loads at all until after three rinses.
One of the first things that went wrong with my Miele was it wouldn't spin at 1100. If that speed was selected machine would simply stop when timer reached that portion of cycle. If switch was set back to 900rpms or left there from the start, no problems. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Miele+w1070+won't+spin+site:www.automaticwasher.org
Miele came out and tech was able to get the machine to spin at 1100 by moving some wires. However that is when the messages began about "machine is old" "had brittle wiring", etc... began coming from MieleUSA. In order to source the reason why machine wasn't going into high speed spin would basically require taking out the motor and other bits, then tracing the problem via wiring diagram. It could have been many things said tech; relay, poor connection, etc.. But they flatly refused to have anything to do with removing motor/testing. Even my independent Miele guy wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
Since these machines lack self diagnostics the only real way to find out often what is wrong is by "going in" if you will. Then one applies a bit of Cat In The Hat logic; to find out what something is start by finding out what it is not. Speed switch, wiring, relay, electronic control, motor brushes, etc..
richnz
Well-known member
Sorry to clarify
at the end of a wash cycle, the automatic switch-over from rinsing to spin can depend on the machine detecting the rinse has finished.
The rinse portion normally ends with the water being pumped out and the tumbling of the clothes. However, some machines can tumble until "the timer is up" because they don't figure that the rinse is finished.
Due to the weight of the motor I wouldn't go at the brushes unless I was certain it was the brushes.
In looking into things I have found a manual for the W770/W772/W783/W784 however it doesn't go into how to change the brushes.
at the end of a wash cycle, the automatic switch-over from rinsing to spin can depend on the machine detecting the rinse has finished.
The rinse portion normally ends with the water being pumped out and the tumbling of the clothes. However, some machines can tumble until "the timer is up" because they don't figure that the rinse is finished.
Due to the weight of the motor I wouldn't go at the brushes unless I was certain it was the brushes.
In looking into things I have found a manual for the W770/W772/W783/W784 however it doesn't go into how to change the brushes.
Have also seen said manual
If it is the same it mainly refers to the German versions of the 700 series even though printed in English. It does state that certain things may be different for models sold in North America.
There is another far more in depth manual for MieleUSA techs that covers all early Miele laundry appliances sold in USA (700 series and 1065/1070 washers along with matching dryers), but have not been able to lay hands or even see one.
Now the service manuals for later Miele washers such as the 1900 series does tell how to replace the motor brushes. But it is a much easier affair since Miele had switched to a new motor by then.
From what one understands Miele brush motors are rather long lived and that particular part does not wear out for some time with regular use. In contrast washers like Asko and others easily require brush changes every few years it seems. My guess is if this is true could be why so little attention is paid to swapping out brushes in manual. Likely the set installed probably would last if not out last the washing machine's rated life cycle (15-20 years?).
Have seen European versions of the 700 and 1070 series motors on various European eBay sites. These motors were pulled from units that were rubbished for various reasons and were still "fine".
If it is the same it mainly refers to the German versions of the 700 series even though printed in English. It does state that certain things may be different for models sold in North America.
There is another far more in depth manual for MieleUSA techs that covers all early Miele laundry appliances sold in USA (700 series and 1065/1070 washers along with matching dryers), but have not been able to lay hands or even see one.
Now the service manuals for later Miele washers such as the 1900 series does tell how to replace the motor brushes. But it is a much easier affair since Miele had switched to a new motor by then.
From what one understands Miele brush motors are rather long lived and that particular part does not wear out for some time with regular use. In contrast washers like Asko and others easily require brush changes every few years it seems. My guess is if this is true could be why so little attention is paid to swapping out brushes in manual. Likely the set installed probably would last if not out last the washing machine's rated life cycle (15-20 years?).
Have seen European versions of the 700 and 1070 series motors on various European eBay sites. These motors were pulled from units that were rubbished for various reasons and were still "fine".
galavoxx
Member
The motor on this machine works just fine. The machine will step through every part of the cycle, it will agitate the laundry as it should, it will drain, it will fill, it will heat. I've tested the pressure switch by blowing in the tube and connecting a multi meter to test that it is switching on and off. I tested the spin speed toggle switch and it toggles. I'm not sure what else it needs to do since it is a simple switch.
I will check the breather hoses from the pump to the dispenser but I'm not sure how that would cause the machine not to spin, even when I run it through the spin cycle with the front panel open.
At this point, I am thinking it is the electronic control board mentioned earlier but I don't know how to test that component. There were clearly some burn marks on the plug attaching to the control board and part of the metal connector was "degraded" from heat.I called Miele to see about price for this part and it is $600!!! I am hoping this is not the issue because I don't think I will repair at that price.
I will check the breather hoses from the pump to the dispenser but I'm not sure how that would cause the machine not to spin, even when I run it through the spin cycle with the front panel open.
At this point, I am thinking it is the electronic control board mentioned earlier but I don't know how to test that component. There were clearly some burn marks on the plug attaching to the control board and part of the metal connector was "degraded" from heat.I called Miele to see about price for this part and it is $600!!! I am hoping this is not the issue because I don't think I will repair at that price.
galavoxx
Member
@laundress looking back at you previous post about the motor have one side for tumbling and one for spinning. I may go in there this weekend and take a look at the motor after all.
Sadly Miele Telephone Tech Support
Won't give out much today, only firmly and calmly insist on booking a service call. Some time back if you got a good tech with some experience they would help you walk through a few suggested things and or even small repair.
If you do decide to go in my advice is to do so slowly and armed with some sort of knowledge first. Glean as much as possible from online service manuals as to what *might* be the problem when a machine will not spin. I would at all costs avoid heaving out that heavy motor unless absolutely necessary.
Have you tired various online European washer forums? Unless your Dutch or German is good you'll have to use a translator, but there are peeps on that side of the pond who know vintage Miele washers backwards and forwards.
Won't give out much today, only firmly and calmly insist on booking a service call. Some time back if you got a good tech with some experience they would help you walk through a few suggested things and or even small repair.
If you do decide to go in my advice is to do so slowly and armed with some sort of knowledge first. Glean as much as possible from online service manuals as to what *might* be the problem when a machine will not spin. I would at all costs avoid heaving out that heavy motor unless absolutely necessary.
Have you tired various online European washer forums? Unless your Dutch or German is good you'll have to use a translator, but there are peeps on that side of the pond who know vintage Miele washers backwards and forwards.
galavoxx
Member
I removed the motor from my W1065 today and took a look at the brushes. They are definitely done and do not appear to be touching the commutator or whatever it's called. I ordered a new pair from Miele. Cost is about $65. I will report back once I have it running again. Probably a couple weeks. Thanks @Laundress for putting so much info up here that allowed me to troubleshoot the common problems. I'm not out of the woods yet but it looks promising.
Hats Off To You!
How did you manage to get that motor out of machine? Was it such a horrible thing as Miele techs have made one believe all these years? Did MieleUSA give you any help or just placed the order for parts (brushes).
Makes one wonder how many of these older units are trashed because they won't spin when in reality all they need is new brushes.
Good for you!
How did you manage to get that motor out of machine? Was it such a horrible thing as Miele techs have made one believe all these years? Did MieleUSA give you any help or just placed the order for parts (brushes).
Makes one wonder how many of these older units are trashed because they won't spin when in reality all they need is new brushes.
Good for you!
motor removal
I can tell the motor on these are really heavy, but they're not so difficult to remove as stated here...! Did a brush replacement on a WS5406 when I was a trainee at Miele Norway in 2008/09, and it wasnt bad experience...
Good to here you were trying to fix it yourself
I can tell the motor on these are really heavy, but they're not so difficult to remove as stated here...! Did a brush replacement on a WS5406 when I was a trainee at Miele Norway in 2008/09, and it wasnt bad experience...
Good to here you were trying to fix it yourself
