My Blushing Ladies

[Dick_S.]

Brian and Tom

Wow, to get to the computer this evening and find your posts. You both are really great in providing so much help to me in this wiring project. It's really a comfort. I found myself asking everyone I met this morning in town if they knew anything about timers and wiring harnesses. I'm sure a couple of them thought I was crazy. I know I can do this if I just understand what I'm doing. The biggest issue is grasping the concept of the harness and the neutral wires and finding a harness that will work on the 57. I need a harness that will have enough leads to cover all the components in the console-the 5 temp water control, infinite water level control, the sudsaver, and the warm/cold rinse and the flourescent lighting and kick off switch. I can't find a replacement germicidal lamp assembly and am blowing that off. Below the lid-the tub light-sudsaver, 3 solenoid water valve-kickoff switch, wig wag and motor. I hope I haven't forgotten any. Oh, and the lid swich.

I checked on the Whirly I gutted today and from what I can deduce from all I've learned about wiring so far-there are not nearly enough wires to connect to all areas and none of the K's I have come close to having enough wires. Can I make a harness? I don't know. I'm fairly smart if I understand what I'm doing.

As of this posting the 57 is almost complete with everything it needs to run except the wiring! ((--:: And Brian, your suspension arms worked out just great. Oh, the only thing it doesn't have at this point is a gleaming white tub as I can't rock (even standing in it didn't do the trick) the tub off the center post and my blow torch caught fire before I had to chance to really heat the crap out of it. Will buy a new torch tomorrow morning and plan to have the tub changed out by tomorrow evening. ((--::

Thanks guys for all your help. You don't know how much it all is appreciated and I'll probably need a bit more before this is all over with. ((--::

Tom-My 58 is my favorite machine. I almost covet it and don't want to use it and wear it out (however, it is used weekly for at least one load). The only difference between my aunt's and mine is that mine never gets Tide suds locks like hers did all the time! She used her Tide quite freely. And the green was my favorite color out of the three. What a surprise to hear you say that it was so unpopular.

Thanks again guys

Oh and washertalk- you are oh so right in what you write about the excitement there is in getting parts from this machine and that machine and creating such a great new wonderful working 50 year old washer. What a charge.

 

[panthera]

Dick,

Dick,
One of my jobs as lowest on the shop totem pole was rewiring washers and such. Maybe some of the things I learned back then well help you out a bit.

1) It never hurts to check twice that the power is off. Not just because you can kill yourself, but because you can easily destroy a hard to find part.

2) A cheap VOM (I would plead for a digital one which beeps or whistles at you when you have a connection, 'bout 25$ at Homo Depot) will make your life enormously easier by saving lots of stooping, bending and such.

3)It pays to take pictures, pictures, pictures. Back then, digital cameras weren't realistic so my boss paid for Poloroid instant photography. Boy, was it worth it. I still make lots of sketches and write things down...if you remember, back in 2006 that really helped when my niece let her daughter pull all the wires out of the timer block on the Maytag I was fixing...and boy was I glad I had locked away the machine's 120V plug...). A side bonus of those pictures: Someone here has always worked on the same or a similar machine and can usually diagnose the problem for you from a picture very quickly.

4) Always test one run of new wiring at a time.
With a VOM, you can do most of that testing very fast and easily. Just never wire up more than one functional group at a time.
A functional group would be, for instance WATER: Timer block, water pressure sensor, water level switch, water temperature, solenoids. Definitely the scariest of all the wiring in the washer...but also easy to work out logically. If it would help, be glad to describe this group in detail with wiring in another post...unless I am so confusing here you'd rather eat broken glass.

The whole neutral, grounded and live thing. Sometimes "live" is called "hot". Sometimes it is called "potential" or 120V or "phase". Same with neutral; sometimes it is called "return" or simply "N". Some folks get upset when we don't use the absolutely proper term for things, but I suggest you stick with whatever Whirlpool called them...

Here's a quick run down on the whole neutral thingee for you.
Let's start at the beginning.
When power comes into the machine, there are three wires. One is to ground all the metal parts of the machine. This one may be a floppy old bare or green wire running from a screw on the frame to a cold-water pipe clamp, or one of the three from the three prong plug. Some older machines have only a two-prong plug, never mind for now. We can ignore this grounding one for now (but be sure it is in place before the machine goes into use!).
The second wire is called the "live" wire and this is the one which all the switches and pressure valves, etc. get to play with. It is usually black and often called "L1".

The third wire is called the "neutral" wire and this one will, in the end, be the easiest for you to deal with.

In order for the timer, the water pressure valve, the water temperature switch, the light switch, etc. to control all those things, you only need to switch the power on and off at one of the two wires involved. Oh, I know - there are like a billion wires going to and from everything...but in every case, the actual switching on and off is not as complicated as you might think. All that really gets turned on or off as the control wire is that live or hot or phase or L1 wire...

The neutral wires, because they do not get switched off and on, are usually grouped together and all hooked up together at points through the washer. Some machines, Maytags for instance, did this on the timer block - it made things pretty easy. Others do this at various places you might not think of.

Some German machines used the water solenoid as a good junction for all those neutrals...why not? There was room and it was roughly in the middle of everything, which saved on wire. Regardless...those neutrals are not mysterious or problematic. In wiring things up, they are just like any other wires.
Here's an example:
If your look at the water solenoid valves, you will see that there is one less wire going to them from the harness than you would expect. If there are two solenoids, you will find three, not four wires - two control wires - one for hot, one for cold and the third for neutral which is attached to both solenoids. If there are three solenoids, you will find three control wires and still just one neutral.

You will probably end up having to get wires from several harnesses to build your own wiring. The whole point of a "harness" is just economy. As long as the wires are mechanically and electrically safe, you can run them one-by-one if you have to (and it sounds like you may have to). No big deal. You will probably find that there are at least three different kinds of connector in that machine. If you absolutely have to make a wire from scratch, use a 14AWG appliance wire, be sure the role says: “UL1230 - Complies with UL style 1230 and CSA style AWM Type 1” (you can buy these at Radio Shack or Homo Depot, ask for help to be sure you get the right stuff) and be sure to read up on how to crimp the connectors on right. It isn't hard, but most newbies crimp the hell out of them and then wonder why they break...(The anal retentive crowd would now suggest appropriate colors and a range of wires from 12AWG to 18. Ain't necessary, don't trouble yourself. I really, really, hope you are able to find wires from other machines to do this. I don't recommend splicing wires together, and hope to hell you don't have to make up any yourself, but you may have no choice when you get to that motor.)

I think it would help a lot if you posted some photos of the various control devices and their mechanisms. As folks have pointed out, nothing has really changed here in the last fifty years or so and someone can probably post a picture or diagram right back showing how these are wired together.

 

[appnut]

Dick, when ya can, I'd love to see pics of the 58 Lady. Off the top of my head, I can't remember what that style looks like.

 

[Dick_S.]

Pix of components

Panthera- I read and reread your post and some things are beginning to make sense. If I understand correctly, the neutral leads to the components are grouped together and joined at a central point. The hot wires go to the timer #'s and the neutrals collectively go to one contact on the timer. Am I getting the jist?

I understand the common ground and the hot wires, at least I believe I do. On a component with two contacts, one for hot and one for neutral-the wires can be connected to either one.

This pic shows the flourescent light, the 5 temp water control and on the right of the timer the infinite water control.

The timer was made by the Soreng Company- Model 104-57

 

[Dick_S.]

The other components

This pic shows the sudsaver, the warm/cold rinse, and the ballast/junction boxes for the flourescent light. Oh, and the end of cycle bell.

 

[volvoguy87]

Wiring and labeling.

The last time I had to take anything apart it was the gauge cluster of my Volvo. Did you know a speedometer can take up an entire kitchen table whan it's in pieces? <:-D)

Take some adheasive labels and attach them to both ends of your pieces of wires (just keep tham away from hot things). Write on both sides of the flag, on both ends of the wire, what the wire connects to at the other end. Trust me, you will be glad you did when you are connecting one end, and you can read what the other end is attached to without having to stop and double chack your notes. Also, check out Robert's restoration of his '57. The pictures are great and maybe they could be of help.

Good luck all the 57 Lady needs is fins,
Dave

 

[Dick_S.]

Thanks for the post Dave and yes, I did just that (label the wires) when I had to disconnect all wires from the timer of the 60 Kenmore when I sent the timer out for repair. I sure wished that was all I had to do with the 57. Today I got a bit disgruntled and asked myself why I took on such a project. Then all I had to do was look at them and I knew why.

I did use Robert's 57 resto as a guide when I gutted and completely revamped my 56 Kenmore. It was ever so useful. BUT there wasn't an issue about rewiring a wireless timer discussed. I just have to look at those pictures with all those wires wormin' around and I start to sweat! ((--::

 

[panthera]

Hi Dick,

Basically: Yup.
You are right that in a any case where there are only two wires, like to a water valve, it doesn't matter electrically. Where, however, the manufacturer has gone to the trouble to indicate a preference, then follow it. Condensors, for instance.

Thanks for the pictures. I can see why you took this one on, she will be beautiful.

Two suggestions before you get started.
1) I started wrapping PVC tape around existing connectors a while back. Remove them, gently wrap them and replace them. New connectors I install in areas like that are always insulated.
Maybe I am paranoid, but it just seems like common sense with all those metal components lying around.
2) I suggest you find out, if you haven't already, what sort of condition all the switches and pressure valves, etc. are in before you start rewiring. That pressure valve, for instance can have a tube hooked up to it. You blow into it until it clicks (may have a few clicks available, or just one, I am not an expert on this model. If you blow till it clicks then cover the tube with your thumb...does it lose air quickly or stay clicked? Ideally, it should stay clicked indefinitely. If it reclicks quickly, then you have a blown diaphram (or leaky thumbs :-(((!

Are you comfortable with testing switches using a VOM? If not, let us know, be happy to explain how I do it. Saves a whale of a lot of time to be wiring something you know is good instead of working your ass off and it turns out the part is bad.

Oh, one thing. Never run the wires tightly. Always lay the bundles or separate wires so they won't get sliced or diced, burnt or wet...but leave enough "play" that you can field test a part or remove it without having to stretch or disconnect the other end of the wire(s). I know it was common practice in the 50's to just tape wires to the metal to keep them out of the way, but I wouldn't today. Thanks to home made PCs and modding, you can get those little cable holders, wiring tubes, etc, et al. from PC shops. Makes our lives much easier and the job much cleaner.

 

[Dick_S.]

Late 50's LK wiring harness

Would anyone know where I might start looking for a late 50s Kenmore wiring harness for the 57LK. This harness would have to be large enough to run all the bells and whistles on the machine. With the help and advice that everyone has been giving me I believe I could get this accomplished if I had a harness to work with.

As of last Saturday evening, the machine is fully back together in all respects except the wiring.

 

[panthera]

Neat!

That went fast! Good for you!
You can search ebay and the internet. Probably you will find stuff like in the link below. I don't know...you would have to redo every single connector...
But, Dick, if I am not mistaken...almost all the wiring you need to do is going to be of switches and parts which are very close to each other. Doesn't somebody pre-package that sort of wire, or am I thinking of the 1970's again...you know, lengths of a few inches out to 18 or so with insulated connectors at both ends. If someone still does that, it would solve like 90% of your problem.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[aldspinboy]

Dick! keep the faith on your wiring project i know it will be beautiful at the end!! Darren k

 

[Dick_S.]

And the saga continues

I am still working on the wiring harness sit. for the washer and will keep everyone updated.

What I would like

 

[frontaloadotmy]

what would you like ?

Please, tell us!!!!
Haven't you got that running yet? Hell by the time I left
I had it so all you had to do was plug it in and select the setting and push in the timer!!! Some peepull!!!!

 

[pdub]

So......

Dick, What's the latest on your pink LK set?

Did you get the help you needed on figuring out the wiring?

I'm sure Darrel probably had them running but then pulled one wire just before he left so you'd have something to ponder! (ha-ha)

We're ready for an update!

 

[Dick_S.]

A temporary set back

I've held off posting as I thought I'd wait till I had both machines up and running. I've got good and bad news as of this Sunday evening.
As for the bad news, Ihought I'd surprise everyone with word that I tore two machines down and sat at table for a day and a half and MADE a wiring harness for the washer. I was meticulous in detail and made three and four checks before I acted on a splice, etc. I used 14 gauge wire for the main leads and wire I took off of some of my parts' machines for all others.

Well, a friend and I wired up the machine and I put power to it yesterday and all I got to run were the tub light and the flouresent panel light. I rechecked the wiring leads to various components and found that somehow numerous leads had been placed on the wrong contacts. I ripped them all off and started over again. Well, the machine fired up after that BUT, I could smell the pungent, acrid odor of burning wires so......I shut it off, covered it up and will pick up on it next week.
Was a bit frustrated yesterday as I took so much time and dealt with only one wire at a time that I could have made a mistake in the harness. The upswing is that I feel proud of myself that I could take on such a feat as making a harness from scratch.

 

[Dick_S.]

Now for the good news ((--::

After putting on a new 10 foot power cord to reach the 220 power supply the dryer wouldn't run. I had to stop working on it as last weekend I had company coming out of the rafters! I couldn't wait till the following week to check it out further.

Well, it turned out to be a bad 30 amp fuse and now it is faboo!

 

[Dick_S.]

And.....I replaced the lights.

I won't be running it all that often as I don't want to buy my electric utility company! ((--:: But.....once in awhile I will enjoy watching and listening to it dry a load.

 

[swestoyz]

Glad to hear about the update. Good news on the dryer - and I'm sure after a bit of hunting around you'll find the problem in no time with the washer harness. You are doing a great job - keep it up!

Ben

 

[appnut]

Dick, I'm proud of ya!! You've done terrific. the wiring harness will come to you!!

 

[frontaloadotmy]

Such a Beautiful

Dryer. And when not drying clothes, you may use it to keep the Laundry Studio Warm as toast.