Nationwide gas stove ban?

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I find it interesting that a certain segment of society feels it's fine - their "freedom"- to saddle their kids with asthma for life along with all the medical problems and costs. We are not an agrarian society anymore living out on a prairie with no one for miles around, responsible only for ourselves. We live in an interconnected society and each of our actions may have an effect on others in our society.

 

Your gas stove, or what ever, may increases my medical insurance because your kid developed asthma. That cost is passed on to the rest of society due to your "freedom" to do what you want. That is why Govt. get involved.
 
My family has always had gas stoves, either in homes we owned or rented. None of my family ever got asthma or other conditions reputedly caused by gas stoves.

 

Currently I have a gas cooktop in the main kitchen, and a gas stove/oven waiting to replace a old electric range in the patio kitchen. Since neither has standing pilot lights, neither really needs continual venting. Both have motorized exhaust hoods over them, which probably could remove most if not all of the fumes associated with natural gas combustion. The water heater here is also gas, as is the home heating system. Both have efficient, constant chimneys to remove any fumes.

 

In other words, I'm not worried about gas stoves. IMHO, there are far more important things to obsess about.

 
 
“My family has always had gas stoves, either in homes we owned or rented. None of my family ever got asthma or other conditions reputedly caused by gas stoves.”

Rich thats because these gas stoves, heaters, ect. were VENTED to the outside in the old days, like I pointed out in my post. And homes weren’t hermetically sealed and air tight like they are now.

For everyone that sounds like Chalerton Heston, who said they’d have to pry his gun from his cold, dead hands, you should be looking for ways to make gas stoves and appliances SAFE and HEALTHY, instead of just saying they aren’t hazardous to our health. We could go back to having stove pipes in every kitchen with a gas stove, but I seriously doubt that the particularly style conscious people of today would have that. Christ, these people can’t even live with last seasons granite counter tops let alone a stove pipe in the kitchen!

This is the 21st century, there certainly must be ways to make gas stoves that can be installed in homes without having them pollute the air inside. There could be big money for someone that came up with a viable solution to this problem.

But to just say, well I never got sick from a gas stove solves nothing. Be part of the solution if these gas fired appliances are so important to you, instead of just stamping your feet and saying I won’t give up my gas stove. At some point you may not have a choice.

BTW Rich, you posted the following in your reply#45 of this thread:

“Pollutants from gas stoves have been linked to asthma and worsening respiratory conditions. A December 2022 study in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health found that indoor gas stove usage is associated with an increased risk of current asthma among children. The study found that almost 13% of current childhood asthma in the US is attributable to gas stove use. ...”

I believe that this is correct information.

Eddie
 
apples to apples experiment.

It's 40 deg outside in your backyard at 10AM on a fall day with light rain and wind.

You have two water proof, reasonably air tight 10 x 10' tents that are the same.

Both tents have a chair, a small table, your favorite books, bottled water, and perhaps a tv and your smart phone.

One tent has a perfectly good and working <span style="text-decoration: underline;">gas stove</span> connected to gas,

the other one has a perfectly good and working <span style="text-decoration: underline;">electric stove</span> connected to electric.

The stoves are turned on and will <span style="text-decoration: underline;">be on</span> the entire time and they're heating up the small spaces.  The dials will be set at mid point so that the air temp inside is about 80 deg. 

This is done because you're going to go in the tent for at least FIVE hours, zip the door shut, and stay warm and dry from the heat while it's windy and raining outside.

Which tent would YOU choose and why not the other one?

Would you be willing to stay in it for 10 hours?
Over night with a cot and blankets?

bradfordwhite-2023011417230201448_1.png
 
I grew up with nothing but electric ranges as well as all of my grandparents, aunts and uncles, ect, so that's all I'm familiar with. I don't have an opinion which one is superior but I'm sure it's all about learning and adapting to whatever one has available.

 

Changing out a gas to an electric range can be a huge, expensive feat if a house is built on a slab and the kitchen is placed a good distance away from the electrical box. I'd say this is an instance where a gas range should be grandfathered in. Just make sure there's a hood placed directly above the range that moves more than a sufficient amount of CFM's, selected on high speed while cooking, and the exhaust is carried directly outside (not in a roof gable). Using this method should be a pretty safe bet. If one is hypertensive to gas fumes or is paranoid about using NG, move into a home that has an electrical range or fully electrical setup.  

 

I'm against forcing people to convert a gas HVAC/water heater/dryer. These are all vented outside and pose little threat when used correctly. It's still a very efficient/low emissions form of heat until something else more "green" comes along. Just don't hold your breath about corporations taking those necessary steps to accomplish a cleaner, greener world. The crony capitalistic system doesn't favor efficient green tech that benefits humans/mother earth, it favors profits and does so with the help of politicians from BOTH sides of the isle through monetary contributions. Always has, always will.

 

As the (c)rappers say, "Dolla Dolla Bill, Y'all."

 



  

 
 
#99

Barry, our government body is here to serve all of us.  If you've ever had a servant, or hired someone to do something for you you understand the concept of kindly instructing them in how they can help you.  Cut your hair, clean your house, walk your dog, scrub your feet, paint your walls, whatever.

 

Sometimes people get caught up with the media hyped teenage rebellion thing, acting like "its us against the Gub-bament!"

No.  We're not in middle school.

There maybe eye catching headlines with stuff like that but just- no.

 

Our government is here for <span style="text-decoration: underline;">all of us</span> that's why, (in most places anyway) when you dial 911 someone will respond with something like "How can I help".  Sadly some people feel left out but no one really is.

 

Our government servants can't do what we need if they don't know what's needed and they don't have the require legislation that allows them to act.

 

It always amazes me how some people act so-o anti government but then a disaster hits, or a relative passes and someone has to inform the family, or someone's a victim of crime and suddenly they realize how grateful that people such as the Highway Patrol, Sheriffs, Fire fighters, and police agencies are there.

 

----

 

As for taking gas appliances from their owners: no one's ever going to "take them" or even buy them back.  Why would we want our gas companies or government to do that?  Without gas service they are just antiques/scrap metal and won't hurt anyone. 

 

Whereas for example gun buy backs or seizures are certainly reasonable because of the threat.
 
 
The maternal grandmother had open natural gas space heaters and a gas range.  I tended to get choked-up there in the winter when those heaters were running full-force with no windows open.  The effect was much reduced when a plumbing problem occurred and updated code prohibited such space heaters in bedrooms and bathrooms.  She then had only one heater in the kitchen ... none in the living room, bathroom, or bedrooms.  The kitchen window unit sometimes was run on fan-only to circulate the excess heat in the kitchen toward the rest of the house.
 
Eddie,

 

I only included that paragraph to provide both points of view.

 

What I didn't post is well worth noting:

<blockquote>
But earlier Wednesday, following the Bloomberg report, CPSC Chair Alexander Hoehn-Saric clarified in a statement that he is “not looking to ban gas stoves and the CPSC has no proceeding to do so.”

 

“CPSC is researching gas emissions in stoves and exploring new ways to address health risks. CPSC also is actively engage in strengthening voluntary safety standards for gas stoves. And later this spring, we will be asking the public to provide us with information about gas stove emissions and potential solutions for reducing any associated risks,” he added.

</blockquote>
Again, I maintain that ALL cooking indoor appliances should have hoods  that export contaminated air to the outdoors. That would include electric ranges as well. I will also note that when I bought this house, there was a quite efficient Nutone hood in the main kitchen which does a great job of exporting cooking fumes to the outdoors. And that was above a Corning electric cooktop, which I replaced a few years after purchase with a gas cooktop.

 

I will also point out that most of the residences my family lived in during the 50's onward did NOT have any fume hoods above the gas ranges in the kitchens. Some had their gas ovens connected to exhaust pipes going outdoors, but not all.

 

It is still my position that IF gas ranges have fume hoods that exhaust to the outdoors, and these hoods are activated during extended cooking/baking, and there are no standing pilot lights, there there is NO health hazard whatsoever to the residence inhabitants.

 
Will gas stoves, ever be banned in the US?

This thread has been a good discussion, but it has gone seriously off the rails with many posts.

It’s very unfortunate that someone from the Consumer Product Safety Commission made the statement, gas ranges and gas cooktops will not be completely banned in anybody’s lifetime reading this.

I do see requirements for proper ventilation, coming about for gas ranges. I also see design changes to make the range is burn more cleanly probably more gas ranges with electric ovens and gas burners on top, or among many things that can be done.

The technology exists to make gas ranges, much cleaner, burning Hardwick back in the 60s had an infrared top burner that cooked more like an electric burner on gas ranges, if you can have a burner where the flames don’t hit the pan, the combustion will be much cleaner.

They can also add event to the oven, which closes just like Chambers did for decades and that reduces the heat loss and reduces the need to burn as much gas to keep an oven up to temperature,

Gas stoves will be regulated out of such widespread use because many new homes are going to be built all electric and that it will be a consumer choice whether you want to buy and live in these homes I don’t think they’ll have any trouble selling them.

Only about 30% of Americans currently have a gas range in their home .

It’s silly to compare gas range emissions to cigarettes much has been done to regulate cigarettes and to keep children away from secondhand smoke. Cigarettes are much more serious hazard than gas ranges, but comparing the two does nothing for this discussion .

There’s nothing in the constitution of the United States that allows free choice when it harms other people this is not a constitutional issue if the government wants to regulate, gas, stoves, and emissions.
 
Like I said, I believe my range produces zero emissions!

I turn it on, I turn it off, I do a little coking in between, sometimes on multiple burners at once…

I have a young daughter who even knows how to use it, and she’s apparently safe from any so-called carbon monoxide dangers…

So the government just needs to keep itself out of certain peoples’ kitchens, namely mine or deal with the statistical death then from a still-properly maintained and responsibly used gas stove, then from whatever after that isolated incident occurs, it can start fast and furiously ban gas ranges everywhere on the face of the earth…

It’s not like I’m running my car in my house, there’s where there would be toxic fumes and so far it’s still okay to have an attached garage…

— Dave
 
Here's what I've done to help conserve natural gas and potentially protect the environment:'

 

1) Set the home gas fired furnace to not run between the hours of 4 pm and 9 pm. This I did because I'm on a plan with PGE that effectively charges more for electricity used during those hours. The gas fired forced air furnace has a 500 watt electric fan. It usually comes on for only about 10-20 minutes an hour, but that's 83 to 166 watts saved per hour. 

 

2) Turned the gas fired water heater down from 140F to 120F. This clearly has reduced the bumping and grinding of the water heater, another plus. Yeah, I know, that's a sign there's scale in the bottom. Sort of waiting for a better time to flush it out.

 

3) The gas cooktop in the main kitchen has an efficient exhaust hood that vents to the outdoors. The oven in the kitchen is electric.
 
Reply number 118

Thanks for posting this John maybe you could give us a summary of this one hour video i could only get through about eight minutes of this video. There were too many mistakes immediately.

HEPA filters will not improve carbon monoxide nitrous oxide’s, or the oxygen depletion caused by a gas stove.

Then he starts going on about science and religion. religion has nothing to do with this issue.

I can’t imagine doing a one hour video and putting out such of poor visual image of not even combing your hair, maybe after about an hour you might look a little bit messy lol

John
 

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