New boiler after 66 years

[petek]

Mike. I only replaced our gas water heater (rental from our gas company) a couple of years ago when it sprang a leak. When the gas company guy came to replace it they said they couldn't unless I had our chimney up to the latest code.. It shared the same flue with the old boiler. That was going to cost a fortune so we went to Lowes and bought a Rheem 50 gal electric for around $500 cdn which was a pretty easy install by ourselves, just had to have a plumber come in and do the water connection. I haven't seen much of any spike in our power bill because of it but then it's just the two of us.

I could have gone with a new combi-boiler and got rid of the water heater but decided against it and the contractor who I had put this new one in also said it was probably better to keep it because the combi boiler would cost significantly more. Plus I'm sort of wary of all these new fangled things LOL

 

[foraloysius]

Pete,

Does that mean the radiators don't have individual valves either? Just the five for the sections? If they have individual ones, it is possible there are screws on the valve to reduce the maximum opening. Not sure though if they ever were use on your side of the pond.

Great though the new boiler is heating things up quickly.

 

[petek]

Louis. Just the small bleeder valve on one end of each. The two in the basement don't even have those but they work fine. I imagine that is because they sit lower than the boiler in the adjacent room so air would likely never get trapped in them. I'm always a bit nervous of bleeding them in case they don't shut off completely because they are old. Last year I was doing it and I guess I didn't tighten one enough in the upstairs bathroom which continued to drip, perhaps one drip a minute or so, and within a week I had water dripping down the wall in the room below. Fortunately no damage to the ceiling or plaster. I started on the one in the laundry room last evening and had a bit of a panic as it was squirting water out and hard to stop so I figured I'll wait and do it another time when I know the plumbers are open , just in case I need to get them here quick. Here's what they look like with and without the front covers, excuse the dog hair etc LOL

 

[foraloysius]

Oh goodness Pete, those have antique value soon! lol. The valve in picture #2 seems like a valve that you could use to regulate the flow, but I would be hesitant to use them, you don't want indeed something go wrong with it.

Happy heating!

 

[petek]

Louis. As far as I know this baseboard style is still available. I've never seen those panel types. Many new houses have the pipes under the floor heating. Underfloor heating isn't a new thing as many think. There are a few subdivisions around us that were built in the late 1950's with underfloor hot water heating. Those houses are slab built (cement) and have no basement so if something goes wrong, and it has, they can't be repaired and the owner has to install a forced air system by adding ductwork through the attic I'm told.

 

[henene4]

They might be constructed differently, especially because of the age you mentioned - but underfloor heating can usually be fixed.

It is a HUGE mess to do so, but it's like any other pipe break.
Rip open the wall/floor, fix pipe, close hole.

Our houses underfloor heating was done in the 80s and already uses the typical PEX piping.
Metal is actually on the way out for most plumbing since it can corrode amd then break over the decades. PEX apparently does less so, especially when incased in cement and running at the relatively low pressures of heating systems.

Underfloor heating has become the defacto standard in german buildings because these systems can run at significantly lower temps because effectively, your whole floor becomes heating surface.

We're talking water temps even going below 100F, even in deep winter.
Those low temps can easily be achieved by heat pumps.

 

[ea56]

My family lived in an “L” shaped ranch style home built in 1947, right after the end of WWII that was built on a cement slab. It had radiant heating in the floors. It was the most comfortably heated home that I’ve ever lived in. There was a boiler in a room off of the laundry room. We lived there from Feb 1958 until May 1962. The boiler would sometimes start to clank because it was overheating. Being the oldest kid my Dad taught he how to turn off the boiler if it started to clank and showed me what to look for on the temp gauge that would indicate overheating.

All the floors in hallway, kitchen, laundry room, my brothers and my bedroom, my sisters bedroom and the three bathrooms were covered with asphalt tiles, the family room, living room, and dining room was covered with cork tiles, while the master bedroom was carpeted.

We had a leak once in the kitchen floor and I recall that it was discovered due to a small pool of water on the floor. They had to jack hammer that section of the floor to locate the leaking copper pipe and then repair it.

This was really a beautiful home, a true MCM home if ever there was one.

Eddie

 

[justjunque]

Petek

Glad things are going pretty well so far.
The crew just showed up this morning to start our job.
I misunderstood initially, and thought your new system was a combi. That's what we're getting. I wish we had more time to do our research. We may have been better off to go with a "boiler" more like yours, and a separate water heater. But, the nights are getting colder here, and our water heater had just started leaking ever so slightly. So, we went along with what the HVAC guys recommended.
All I can tell you at this point, is that it's going to be a Bosch combi boiler.
And, it's costing more than we've ever paid for any of our vehicles. Believe me. I'm not bragging. I'm crying on your collective shoulders. Especially, since I've already built up in my mind that we're not going to be happy with its performance.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[combo52]

New Combi boiler

Reply number 26, there’s no reason to believe that this system shouldn’t work far better than what you had before and save you a good bit of gas.

I don’t see any point in being negative about something like that. Something that is costing this much should work beautifully.

New appliances, new cars, new furnaces, and air-conditioning almost always work better than what you had before. It’s a very rare exception when something doesn’t work as well as what you used to have.

John

 

[justjunque]

Hi John.
Believe me. I don't enjoy being negative.
If I can give you a little back story:
When we bought our house, it had a big H.B. Smith boiler that worked flawlessly. No matter how cold it was outside, or how high we turned up the thermostat, it never failed to meet our demands.
Someone came in to do an energy audit. They managed to scare us into believing that our system was about to fail, it was installed wrong, it was horribly inefficient, etc.
As first time homeowners, we didn't know. We took their word for it, and had a new, "higher efficiency" boiler installed. It was never really up to the task. On bitter cold winter days/nights, it would run continuously, but could never get the house up to even 70 degrees. We ended up having to supplement with electric space heaters; significantly increasing our electric bill.
So, after that very expensive negative experience, we're a bit leery of something else now that's even higher efficiency.
Please don't think I don't care about the environment. I do. But, I'd gladly sacrifice a little "efficiency", and pay a little higher gas bill, for the peace of mind of knowing that our house is going to be as warm as we want it. I'm all for putting out less pollution, but I still want the equipment to get the job done; especially, considering what it costs.

 

[kb0nes]

Higher efficiency means that you extract more BTU's from the fuel consumed.

If the newer system didn't perform it was because it was improperly sized. poorly installed or setup incorrectly.

It isn't efficiency that is the enemy here. But indeed in these forums somehow efficiency is a idea that is frowned upon.

 

[justjunque]

Hi Phil,

I apologize if I used the term incorrectly.
I don't have anywhere near John's, or probably your knowledge and experience. And I have nothing but respect for that knowledge and experience.
But, the only thing I have to go on is the negative experience we had with what was described as a higher efficiency system.
We paid a lot for it, and had it installed by one of the most reputable businesses in the area. So, we trusted that they gave us the right system for our needs.
I can't stress enough that I have nothing against efficiency, saving money, or putting out less emissions.
All I ask is that we don't have to compromise performance in the process. And these combi boilers, and tankless hot water are completely foreign to us.
Maybe our new system will be great, and I'll find that I was worried for no reason. I hope that's the case!
Thank you for your input.

 

[ea56]

Barry,
I’m really sorry that you spent a lot of money already on a new heating system when you originally bought your home. Whatever it cost it was a big investment that you had every right to have expected to meet your heating needs for many years to come. What a shame that you are having to spend money all over again for another heating system.

Perhaps the company that installed your current inadequate heating system didn’t install a system large enough to meet your homes heating needs, or installed it improperly? At any rate I didn’t get the impression that you were anti energy efficiency, but rather that you just want a system that will keep your home adequately warm in the winter months.

If this new system doesn’t perform satisfactorily make sure that you let the company that installed it know right away and insist that they make it right. After all you’re not made of money and you deserve to get a heating system that works properly. Its the job of these guys to KNOW how large a system you need to meet your needs, thats what they are getting paid for. Good luck!

Eddie[this post was last edited: 10/24/2023-17:57]

 

[justjunque]

Thank you, Eddie.
That's exactly what I'm saying. I'd love to save money on utilities in the process. But, what I really want is a system that does what we need, and does it well.
We do suspect that the previous company did set us up with a boiler that was undersized; although they denied that. In fact, they told us that our house fell in between two sizes, and they gave us the size up. So, if anything, it should have been slightly more than we needed.
If the new system proves to be inadequate, we will definitely keep on the new company to do something about it. But, we actually did try multiple times to get the previous guys to make it right. At one point, the then owner of the company even came to our house. But, they always insisted that whatever problems we were having were no fault of theirs.
I feel bad that we're spending so much time discussing our system that isn't even fully installed yet, when this started out as a discussion of Petek's new boiler. I wasn't trying to hijack.
But, I do appreciate your understanding. And, I hope everything turns out fine. For us, as well as Petek.

 

[countryguy]

Petek,

In 2009 I replaced my woodstove in the basement and all the room electric baseboard heaters with a Trane boiler fired by propane and hot water baseboard heaters. I have 5 zones individually controlled - master bedroom, guest bedroom, bathroom, kitchen/dining/living/front entrance and basement family room. The utility room with the boiler, washer/dryer has 2 baseboard heaters that are on all the time when the circulating pump is operating. When any of the zones calls for heat, the circulating pump operates and when the water temp. goes down to 160 F, the burner fires up and shuts off when the water temp. reaches 180 F. I love the radiant heat - very uniform and silent. Fortunately the system had a 10 year warranty. I have had to get one of the manifolds replaced twice because it would leak once the system had cooled right down after the heating season ended. Also, in 2017, when the heating contractor was doing its seasonal maintenance check and cleaning, the boiler would not fire up. It was determined a new igniter was required. After waiting 6 months (all through the summer/fall), it was discovered that the part was no longer available. They ended up having to replace the entire boiler...at no charge. The new boiler is a Weil-McLean. So far it has worked well. I have never adjusted the temperature of the water or at what temp. the boiler turns on/off from what the installers set it at.

 

[petek]

Barry; Let us know how your new combi boiler works out.. Interested to know.

Gary; I asked about on the floor models but my contractor said they didn't sell those. btw is that a high effc. condensing boiler or just a straight boiler as it seems to have the standard galvanized exhaust and not the smaller pvc stuff?

 

[justjunque]

They finished our install today.
First impressions:
It runs much more quietly than our previous system; which, itself, was quiet. But, it had to be tied into a separate power vent that was suspended from the floor joists. That part was not quiet.
Also, it takes longer now for hot water to reach the faucet.
It's way too soon to know how happy we'll be with it in general. And, the price tag will hurt for some time. But, it seems promising.
I took a couple of pictures at the end of day one, before everything wes hooked up.
Here's the label from the carton, if anyone is interested. And a glimpse inside the unit itself. I have no idea what I'm looking at, but I'm sure some of you do.

 

[countryguy]

Petek,

The boiler is 83% efficient. I asked about a higher efficient model but the installer said for my needs, the extra cost of the boiler and installation would not be worth it.

Gary

 

[justjunque]

Something ain't right

Day 1 report:
They're going to have to come back. Somehow, the unit is having a mind of its own, and not responding to the thermostat.
I like it a little cooler to sleep. So, last night, I set it for 65, and turned in. Through the night, I got up, and it was 75 in the house. This morning, it's 77. And the radiators are still putting out heat. I set it to "Off" on the two thermostats, and I actually have windows open at this point.

 

[ea56]

Gee Barry that’s a pisser! I’m sorry that you’re having this trouble already. But just maybe its a good thing that it showed up right away and the problem only requires a minor tweak to the thermostat, or the thermostat is defective and needs replacement. With luck after they are out to assess the situation it’ll be fixed and problem free after that.

Good luck!

Eddie