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Powerful heating isn't necessary (within reason) if a washer can draw hot water, and temps coming out of taps are consistently 120F-140F.

Commercial laundries that use steam for heating wash or rinse water rarely take tap cold and heat; rather hot water is boosted from say 120F to 160F which requires far less energy than going from 84F to 106F.

Problem is many domestic washing machines are fundamentally flawed nowadays thanks to electronics and interfering government mandates.

A short pre-wash at cold or even warm, then hot fill with boost to 120F, 140F or even 160F is easily done with a 1300 watt or bit less heating element. Thing is most manufacturers are leery of putting heating elements rated higher than 1000 watts or so for fear of machine drawing too much current from a 120v/15 amp circuit. They could get up to 1800 watts of power from a 20amp circut, but that might alienate sales from those who don't have such an outlet where washer is located, nor are interested in doing the upgrade.

SQ likely never bothered again with adding a booster heater to their front loaders because they assume American households obsession with chlorine bleach is enough for sanitizing, whitening and stain removal.
 
My 20 year old Maytag Neptune 7500 is still going strong. At 110 volts, it can only heat water to about 130F, but generally that's more than enough. I also have multiple Mieles, and I used to use one for white towels and wash cloths, but haven't bothered with it for at least a year.

Unless one's water heater is very close to the washer, there can be a considerable temperature drop between the heater and the washer. Add to that, the need to heat up the washer tub/drum and laundry load. This is accentuated by the minimal water usage of modern front loaders. A water heater 20 feet from the washer, set to 120F will be hard pressed to result in a wash temp over, say 105F, in a heater-less washer.

For heavily soiled loads I find the Neptune at a boosted 130F, plus an ounce or so of STPP, plus a good HE detergent, does the job quite well.

YMMV
 
I wish Whirlpool would give info on how hot their heaters get the water. I know a half hour into the cycle before the door locks the water is not scalding but is very hot. Once the door locks it continues to heat. It does a cool down before the drain cycle by adding cold water at the end of the wash.
 
One nice feature of the Neptune 7500 is that you can monitor the actual water sump temperature at any time. It does take some keystrokes, but it doesn't interfere with the wash program. If I were to get a new front loader, I'd want to continue to be able to do that, so it's a feature I would favor.

One reason why I've stuck with the Neptune is the layout of my laundry closet. The plumbing and venting connections require that the washer be on the right, and the dryer on the left. The Neptune washer door can swing either way, so it works fine in that location. The only other modern front loader I've seen that can allow for washer door reversal is the Electrolux series. But if I'm not mistaken the model that could do that has been discontinued. At least I'm not seeing it at Home Depot any more.
 
 
My IWL12 targets 116°F/46°C for Warm.  The temp in the tub for a non-Eco "Traditional" wash is typically ~105°F when done

The AquaSmart targets 50°C for Warm and 56°C for Warm/Hot, even on a deep-fill cycle such as Sheets or Blanket (I haven't checked what's the temp in the tub when done).
 
Depending upon cycle, WP washers either begin heating water as soon as the water level is satisfied or it can also wait up to 10 minutes, but it depends upon cycle and options.  The door will not lock until temperature is above 120 degrees, at least on mine.  
 
Did I tempt fate...

Just a day after stating how reliable my Neptune has been, I was washing a load of jeans and shirts today - warm setting. I had put a load of towels through in the morning, set on hot, extended wash soak, without incident.

But after starting the warm cycle just now, I realized I had forgotten to add the liquid detergent after the washer had filled. No problem dumped an appropriate amount of Tide HE down the hatch, and chased it with about a quart of hot water.

Then I started smelling something wrong, like over heated electrics. Plus looking like steam coming out of the fill compartment. Hmm. Let it sit a bit, started it up again, ran the system check and noted the heater off, sump at 96F. OK. Then the temp dropped to 95, and heater signal came on. But the sump temp continued dropping. Down to 94, the 93, despite the heater being commanded on.

My conclusion: the heating element just burned out. I don't think it's a too difficult job to replace it, but I guess I'll find out. The burning smell stopped, so it's probably safe to run the machine as is, without a functioning heating element.

And so it goes.

Maybe I'll be looking at those Elux machines. They are kind of hard to find here. Home Depot (or is it Lowes?) used to have them, but not any more that I could see last time I checked.

Sigh.
 
527 and 627, door

Well, on the Electrolux web site for USA, there's no mention of being able to reverse the door, or change how it swings. Last time I looked at Elux washers (must have been at Lowe's), I didn't see how the door could be reversed...

Also, to get the "steam" function, one needs to spend about $200 more, and there's not indication that it heats the water. Although I'm guessing that if it produces steam some of the water must be getting heated to boiling. Not sure how that works.

Update: I see that the TOL 627 has a Sanitize function, so it must be getting the water pretty hot (I'm guessing 150F, maybe higher). It also has a "whitest whites" function which may also heat the water above 120F.

Maybe I'll just move one of the Miele machines out of the workshop and put that in the laundry closet. I could move the 7500 to the workshop for when I have large loads that require its increased capacity over the Miele. I have two 1025's and one 1918. I know the 1918 works. Not sure about the 1025's. And I have an old Frigidaire front loader. No heater, of course.
 
Dunno if anyone cares about that info

But this system has once more been something ELux first launched over here.

This is how it works basicly:

ELux verry quickly realized that the key to efficent and thourough washing in short time with verry little fabric damage was to quickly saturate a load with water that has already been mixed with detergent.

So they - from what I can tell - pioneered the 3-pump design.

I think this design is only implemented on the TOL 627, dunno if the 527 has the 3 pumps or just drain and recirc.

The machines starts by filling with some water to fill sump and pump.

Depending on cycle the machine might first saturate the load fully or partially with plain water.
For that it uses the recirculation pump.

Then it dispenses detergent/softner into the sump.
That is mixed with the water in the sump, tub and pump via a second recirculation pump that does not spray directly into the load but instead just flows back into the tub.

This mixes water and detergent verry well before creating much interaction with the load.

Once detergent is sufficently dissolved it sprays the highly concentrated dertgent solution onto the load.
Now the difference in concentration kicks in and pulls the detergent laden water way faster and way deeper into the fibres of the laundry.
Exchanging the water in the fibres through this mechanism (I forgot the name of it - dont think it's osmosis, the same mechanism that works on your saline household in your body) while tumbling plus recirculation results in verry good and verry quick soil removal.

Same mechanism is used for rinsing and softening, thus the somewhat less obvious spin behaviours during the rinsing stage.

Detergent never sits unused, there are no chemical or thermal hotsports throughout the load, rinsing is verry efficent yet decent and cycles aren't horribly long.

If I were ELux I would push for using DC pumps verry quickly.
The more pumps you have running the more annoying the noises can get and the bigger the marketing effect can be made while being really just future proofing and without a huge expense.
 
Heinrich......

Seems like you are something of a subject matter expert on the Electrolux line.

AC pumps, and all, would you choose an American 627 over one of the current LG TOL's?

Thanks.
 
Actually no clue tbh.

I think it's all down to what your laundry habits are like, what your laundry setup would be like etc.

For example, while the LGs score not that much worse in terms of wash results vs ELux to the point that I don't think that I personally would know the difference in day to day washing, I do believe that some people would love to have a decent number of loads to be done about 10-15min quicker in the washer.

So if you focus on speed, the LG will be the winner.

If you don't mind the slightly longer cycles, the ELux will clean the crap out of the LG probably in those situations where you really need it.
No pretreatment, nothing.

If you buy a matched set, the ELux dryers consistently score better than the LGs.

Better drying performance, lower temperatures, better sensing system.

I personally find my 45dB DW to not be really that quiet.
For me the DC pumps are a really nice thing.

Would my washer be sitting in the basement or a laundry closet away from most living areas, the occasional more pronounced hum wouldn't be a matter.

Cycles wise the ELux is more compact and therefore allows more option flexibility.
For example Sanitize is available on a couple more cycles.
The Solid soil option could make sense if you live in an rural muddy area and are more outdoorsy.

The LG has more cycles, but less customizability there.

On the dryer side the LG has more preset sensor cycles, but if I'm not mistaken you can't alter the drying temperature on most of them.
The ELux has less cycles, but you can change temperature on them more widely.

And then there is price.

For me, a 3900 would have all the features I would want in an LG except maybe for TrueSteam (though not sure if any current LG still offers that).

For an ELux I would have to go TOL.

If I can get both for the same price as matched set that would make it hard.

If either is significantly cheaper, that would swing me that way.
 
Keep in mind

The Elux's don't have coin traps but the LG's do. Not a huge deal IF you check pockets religiously before loading. I'm the only one that does laundry and over the years the ONLY things I can think of that I missed are maybe a couple of dimes and a small screwdriver (all which stayed in the drum) The few times I've checked my coin trap over the years, there's never anything in it but a few little pieces of harmless lint.

If you have multiple people doing laundry and something gets into the pump, I think the entire machine has to be taken apart to get to it. This is the only thing that annoys me about the Elux's. If LG can put a coin trap door right upfront, why don't they?

On the new Duets, I believe they now have a coin trap.....but the Maytags don't. Not sure what's up with that weirdness.
 
That was another reason I bought the 6620 was for the coin trap. Mark I don't get the company either. Why dont they give Maytag a coin trap access ? I have to say I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Whirlpool front loader when i finally get my place sold.
 
Well

I haven't completely given up on Whirlpool. I love my Maytag dishwasher. Zero problems. My fridge is 2 over 2 years old now. No problems (but I expect problems eventually). It's just the "NEW" stuff feels so much cheaper. I mean, for example, my 2004 Whirlpool fridge (lasted about 13 years) and I had a few repairs on it in that 13 years...but the new comparable Whirlpool fridge just feels HOLLOW to me in comparison. I mean, maybe that's not a bad thing, I don't know.

I do know that for Dryers, I prefer Whirlpool definitely. I think dishwashers too (Maytag) and maybe Range's/microwaves. But the new Duets I'm just not sure about. I think for my next washer (still undecided) but leaning Elux OR LG..

I've drawn this conclusion from videos I've seen of them in operation on YouTube. The LG's turbowash and Elux looked superior to me as far amount of water/ recirculation. Yes, the duet's had recirculation and I've only seen one cycle (I think it was a pillow someone was washing and it was on the bulky cycle) and thank God for the recirculation because there was BARELY any water.....And this was the BULKY cycle, the cycle that has always used the most water..I was cringing while watching it because I was imagining even less water than that in other cycles. I wish I could see more cycles of the new Duets but I can't find them on YouTube.
 
I was the one who recorded a couple of cycles with mine in my basement. It's a good machine. Huge capacity. At this point though I am back to using my Speed Queen. The new home I'm looking at doesn't have a washer/dryer so will have to bring my own.

I can always get another front loader but I can't get another AWN432 new.
 
so then it sounds like

you like the latest generation WP FL washers?

I was noticing they only do ONE default rinse......and if you chose extra rinse, you get a total of 2 rinses. I don't think I'd like only have 2 rinses when I'm used to 2 default rinses and 3 with extra rinse.
 
Where do you notice they do 1 default rinse ?

AFAIK the only cycle that I have used that defaults to one rinse is the colors cycle. The "what to wash" cycles that I used were regular,bulky,whites and towels and those cycles default to 2 rinses. I don't remember if delicate does or not.

I think I only used that once to wash curtains.

Even though there is no "rinse and spin" you can get that by selecting "drain and spin" and using the extra rinse button.

The machine does a high water level rinse for over 5 minutes.Lots of splashing.
 
My question though is why does Whirlpool not offer a prewash on their models ?

I know there are people who work at Whirlpool who are on this site. They have a presoak selection, but it is badically just an extended wash with no water change.

I don't get this company lately and why they are making the decisions they are. Seems LG is capturing more new buyers today.
 
John,

Thanks for the hint.

The aroma and steam/smoke was coming from the fill area, which is fairly isolated from the control board. It might just be a wiring issue. I need to pull the washer out from the laundry nook to clean the hot water intake screen anyway, at which time I can pull the rear access panel and see if I can observe any wiring issue.

The washer completed a few more cycles sans heating without incident.

It would be nice if it's just wiring, because the heating element is unobtainium.

If the Neptune craps out completely, I'll probably swap it out with the old Frigidaire, and leave the Miele(s) in the workshop. We'll see. I got choices. Although a new Elux set would be nice.
 
Agiflow

Hey - My duet doesn't have prewash either. Back when I bought my Duet, there were 3 models. BOL, MOL, and TOL (they all looked the same except for more cycles/options.) Mine is MOL...I got the cheapest one WITH a heater. I'm almost positive the TOL then had a prewash.

I would much rather have prewash than presoak if all presoak does is extend the wash. I'd rather have a water change. I can't BELIEVE Whirlpool doesn't have that cycle. Luckily, I would rarely need it but when I do, I just use rinse/spin but I add detergent. Then when it's done, I start a cycle with more detergent,etc.

Mine has a soak cycle which I rarely use.

A few years ago I remember hoping my Duet would die because I wanted to get something different, not that anything was wrong with my machine, I just wanted something cooler and newer...but as each year goes by, now I don't want it to die. Each year I hate the new washers more and more.
 
Jerrod cycles default to 2 rinses and you can add a third with extra rinse The water level is low.
 
Everyone who is aware, the colors cycle just offers one rinse.  Thus, I'd never use that cycle, unless I just automatically add the "extra" rinse.  Doesn't make sense.  But then, I have no clue what the designers' thought was behind that.  And colors hold onto detergent more than lighter colors.  
 

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