I'm off to get a bottle of the new Persil detergent today and wonder how much should I use in my Miele W1930. I'm not sure the dosage on the bottle will be correct for my smaller machine. Any suggestions?
Thanks! Greg
Thanks! Greg
New Persil and older Miele washers
- Thread starter luxflairguy
- Start date
A suggestion
Since that Miele (if memory serves) doesn't have the "Waschlauge seal" which later models had, a fair amount of the detergent is going to run into the draining system. I'd use the standard dose first and only then adjust down if there's a problem.
Which, there won't be. You're working with two of the best products ever to come into the laundry room.
Since that Miele (if memory serves) doesn't have the "Waschlauge seal" which later models had, a fair amount of the detergent is going to run into the draining system. I'd use the standard dose first and only then adjust down if there's a problem.
Which, there won't be. You're working with two of the best products ever to come into the laundry room.
I use Persil powder or Persil Pods/Pacs in my W1930 and have no sudsing problems. I use the smaller scoop which came with my Sears powdered detergent. It measures 50 CC per level scoop, to which I add a level TSP of STPP if I'm doing whites.
Thanks guys! I bought a bottle of the intense fresh powder--hate the scent it's going back! But did one load of whites using the recommended dose and I'm more than impressed! But the scent!!!
I've always used universal powder and has me wondering if the 2 Tbls coffee scoop I've always used isn't enough. Thanks again! Greg
I've always used universal powder and has me wondering if the 2 Tbls coffee scoop I've always used isn't enough. Thanks again! Greg
@Keven
If you use powder in an older Miele, it doesn't get flushed into the draining system when you use the detergent dispenser. Older Mieles always start filling through the prewash compartment for the main wash. After a while the water starts flowing through the main wash compartment. My mother's 1975 W423 had that system and my 1991 W715 has it too.
If you use powder in an older Miele, it doesn't get flushed into the draining system when you use the detergent dispenser. Older Mieles always start filling through the prewash compartment for the main wash. After a while the water starts flowing through the main wash compartment. My mother's 1975 W423 had that system and my 1991 W715 has it too.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Panthera
I'm wondering how you like the US Persil vs the German. You have a unique position of having been able to use Persil a lot in Germany, possibly German Persil here, and US Persil.
I'm wondering how you like the US Persil vs the German. You have a unique position of having been able to use Persil a lot in Germany, possibly German Persil here, and US Persil.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
hate the scent it's going back!
Scent is why I've so far not gotten around to trying Persil. I've heard it's pretty potent, and I've come to dislike scents in laundry products. A gentle scent, fine, but it seems like the scent level of today is so strong that the scent will warp the finish on the inside of the dryer door...
I'm currently using Wisk (conventional top load type). It was cheap, and I was curious. So far, my big complaint is that the scent can be strong and lingering, although I'm getting better that controlling the problem. (Careful dosing. Also second rinses with some loads may help.)
Scent is why I've so far not gotten around to trying Persil. I've heard it's pretty potent, and I've come to dislike scents in laundry products. A gentle scent, fine, but it seems like the scent level of today is so strong that the scent will warp the finish on the inside of the dryer door...
I'm currently using Wisk (conventional top load type). It was cheap, and I was curious. So far, my big complaint is that the scent can be strong and lingering, although I'm getting better that controlling the problem. (Careful dosing. Also second rinses with some loads may help.)
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
In non-SLC Miele washing machines...
we service people tell our customers to use no more than 1 heaping teaspoon of powder. For HE liquids, pour until it reaches the diameter of a US quarter and stop. Never pods. Half-again for the large capacity machines like the W4802. I've seen more damage from over-soaping on both washers and dishwashers!
@foraloysius- many Mieles have a "feel good" fill. The first +/- 5 seconds of fill runs down the glass with the interior light on so the user can see the water and feel good that it's filling. Then, the rest is diverted to the regular fill path with the light off.
Chuck
we service people tell our customers to use no more than 1 heaping teaspoon of powder. For HE liquids, pour until it reaches the diameter of a US quarter and stop. Never pods. Half-again for the large capacity machines like the W4802. I've seen more damage from over-soaping on both washers and dishwashers!
@foraloysius- many Mieles have a "feel good" fill. The first +/- 5 seconds of fill runs down the glass with the interior light on so the user can see the water and feel good that it's filling. Then, the rest is diverted to the regular fill path with the light off.
Chuck
launderess
Well-known member
'Older Mieles always start filling through the prewash compartment.."
My W1070 does none of it; for main wash water goes down the right side (main wash) of detergent drawer.
However IIRC all Miele washing machines going back to the 1980's (if not before) use the ball/valve system to keep detergent from being flushed down sump when filling.
My W1070 does none of it; for main wash water goes down the right side (main wash) of detergent drawer.
However IIRC all Miele washing machines going back to the 1980's (if not before) use the ball/valve system to keep detergent from being flushed down sump when filling.
brisnat81
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure its the late 80's early 90's when the eco valve came into existence on the Miele's. All of the Brown control paneled Miele's I've had dont have the valve and fill first through the prewash compartment to fill the sump.
My W423 from the mid 70's like Louis's fills first from the Prewash side and then the timer clicks and it starts filling from the main wash compartment. The early electronic control models from the same period I've used do exactly the same thing.
My understanding with the Feel good fill on the later ones, is that that is whats priming the eco valve. The water runs down the glass, through the boot into the outer tub, just enough to prime the valve and then switches to the dispenser to ensure that no detergent is lost to the sump.
Thats why with liquids you need to start immediately or you need the liquid insert for the tray, otherwise given enough time it'll run all the way through into the sump.
My W423 from the mid 70's like Louis's fills first from the Prewash side and then the timer clicks and it starts filling from the main wash compartment. The early electronic control models from the same period I've used do exactly the same thing.
My understanding with the Feel good fill on the later ones, is that that is whats priming the eco valve. The water runs down the glass, through the boot into the outer tub, just enough to prime the valve and then switches to the dispenser to ensure that no detergent is lost to the sump.
Thats why with liquids you need to start immediately or you need the liquid insert for the tray, otherwise given enough time it'll run all the way through into the sump.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
Is the "eco valve" you're talking about the concertina hose at the bottom of the suds container that has the ball in it that floats inside the hose and blocks the draining of said container? Forgive the difference in terminology... I'm still learning something new every day!
Chuck
Chuck
The Little Giants fill as Louis states. After a quick drain, then a brief flow of water down the door as the light turns off, when that shuts off, there's a 10 second or so flow through the prewash compartment and finally the main wash flush. I also assumed this was to prime the ecovalve.
brisnat81
Well-known member
Hi Chuck,
Thats right. As the sump fills with water, the ball floats upwards which semi seals the sump from the tub and stops the detergent washing into the sump.
When it starts to drain and the sump empties, the ball drops down and the water flows past it. Its night a tight seal, it just has to be enough to stop the detergent ending up in the pump before the wash starts.
Cheers
Nathan
Thats right. As the sump fills with water, the ball floats upwards which semi seals the sump from the tub and stops the detergent washing into the sump.
When it starts to drain and the sump empties, the ball drops down and the water flows past it. Its night a tight seal, it just has to be enough to stop the detergent ending up in the pump before the wash starts.
Cheers
Nathan
Gee, I'm also getting a lesson on how my Miele dispenses detergent! I've had a W1918 and dryer and the current W1930 and dryer. I do miss having the higher temps of the 1918.
But back to detergent! Your Lordship, I did one load with the new Persil with the bad scent. The results were superior to my past with Persil universal powder, using 2 T per load. The load I ran yesterday had 3 nasty kitchen towels from cleaning my range hood. Lots of old thick grease was on the towels. Yes, one did have a commercial degreaser on it, the others did not. With the universal powder the grease would leave stains, this did not. I thought everything was whiter and really liked that I didn't have to do an Oxi-clean soak.
The bad scent bottle goes back tomorrow and yes, Freddie's carries the original scent. Is it tomorrow yet? Laundry is piling up! G
But back to detergent! Your Lordship, I did one load with the new Persil with the bad scent. The results were superior to my past with Persil universal powder, using 2 T per load. The load I ran yesterday had 3 nasty kitchen towels from cleaning my range hood. Lots of old thick grease was on the towels. Yes, one did have a commercial degreaser on it, the others did not. With the universal powder the grease would leave stains, this did not. I thought everything was whiter and really liked that I didn't have to do an Oxi-clean soak.
The bad scent bottle goes back tomorrow and yes, Freddie's carries the original scent. Is it tomorrow yet? Laundry is piling up! G
launderess
Well-known member
Am confused
If the "bad" scent Persil cleans so well why are you returning?
Or maybe I shouldn't ask?
If the "bad" scent Persil cleans so well why are you returning?
Or maybe I shouldn't ask?
I was under the impression at WallyW had ALL the different "mixes." Wrong. So I opened the lid of the "intense Fresh" sniffed and said that's not too bad. I brought it home. WRONG!!!! I line dry in the house and my eyes watered and I coughed and coughed. I finally put the rack in the garage. Stuff smells great today. But it isn't the scent I've had for years. So off tomorrow for "original scent."
BUT! You've not chimed in on dosage. Have I at 2 TBLS of original powder been under-dosing? I did the same with Mega-pearls. I'd like your take on this... G
BUT! You've not chimed in on dosage. Have I at 2 TBLS of original powder been under-dosing? I did the same with Mega-pearls. I'd like your take on this... G
Eco Valve
Actually the suds container is always thightly sealed unless the pump is running or after cleaning the coin trap when there`s no water in the system.
I think that short pre fill over the door boot and glass has nothing to do with preventing detergent loss, but might keep the boot clean and prevent from squeaking sounds of dry clothes rubbing against dry glass at the commence of a cycle when loaded at full capacity.
On the other hand older Mieles without the valve indeed relied on a partial fill over the prewash compartment to keep detergent loss at check. My mother`s 1970`s Miele even recommended to add the detergent for the prewash while the washer is filling.
However if the Eco Valve ever failed (no more thight seal) you`d notice very wet clothes at the end of a wash cycle because quite a lot of water is backing up into the suds container.
As to dosing of Persil I`d stick to manufacturer`s recommendations and see where it gets you considering that a regular sized load in the US means only 6 pounds of dry weight.
As to the overpowering scent you wouldn`t believe how fast we adapt. Brought some Tide Original Pods from the States, not being used to a similar scent I found them unbearably strong when I used them for the first time and didn`t like them at all. After a week I hardly noticed the scent anymore and have even grown to like it.
Actually the suds container is always thightly sealed unless the pump is running or after cleaning the coin trap when there`s no water in the system.
I think that short pre fill over the door boot and glass has nothing to do with preventing detergent loss, but might keep the boot clean and prevent from squeaking sounds of dry clothes rubbing against dry glass at the commence of a cycle when loaded at full capacity.
On the other hand older Mieles without the valve indeed relied on a partial fill over the prewash compartment to keep detergent loss at check. My mother`s 1970`s Miele even recommended to add the detergent for the prewash while the washer is filling.
However if the Eco Valve ever failed (no more thight seal) you`d notice very wet clothes at the end of a wash cycle because quite a lot of water is backing up into the suds container.
As to dosing of Persil I`d stick to manufacturer`s recommendations and see where it gets you considering that a regular sized load in the US means only 6 pounds of dry weight.
As to the overpowering scent you wouldn`t believe how fast we adapt. Brought some Tide Original Pods from the States, not being used to a similar scent I found them unbearably strong when I used them for the first time and didn`t like them at all. After a week I hardly noticed the scent anymore and have even grown to like it.
launderess
Well-known member
"overpowering scent you wouldn`t believe how fast we ada
I call it the "grandmamma affect".
You know, the tendency for older women to drench themselves in their "signature" scent. Because they have worn "Shalimar" or "Ma Griffe" for so long they can no longer detect at once, so they pour it on by the gallon it seems. In any event the result is same; best stand upwind and or near an open window if one wants to breathe.
I call it the "grandmamma affect".
You know, the tendency for older women to drench themselves in their "signature" scent. Because they have worn "Shalimar" or "Ma Griffe" for so long they can no longer detect at once, so they pour it on by the gallon it seems. In any event the result is same; best stand upwind and or near an open window if one wants to breathe.
so you're saying
"They go nose blind"
"They go nose blind"
Stefan,
I may be wrong - I haven't worked on one of these Mieles in over ten years - but I don't think it has the seal. And I do very clearly remember being told by many salespeople back home in Munich to let the water run into the machine for a little while before adding the soap.
I may be wrong - I haven't worked on one of these Mieles in over ten years - but I don't think it has the seal. And I do very clearly remember being told by many salespeople back home in Munich to let the water run into the machine for a little while before adding the soap.
Kevin, I may be wrong as well. Luckily I haven`t had the need to work on my Miele`s tub valve so far but I had to work on a previously owned AEG Öko Lavamat (first generation, long before E-lux owned and ruined the brand). In this case it was just a silicone rubber lip combined with a water reservoir instead of a ball. When the valve went bad all the water from the reservoir slowly leaked back into the tub and it was enough to get some of the spin dried clothes dripping wet again.
However it was an easy fix, I just flipped the rubberlip upside down and the "new" side of it outlasted the washer. It was a great washer.
Because I have seen a similar reservoir in my Miele and I can clearly hear how the seal "kicks in" when the pump stops, I`d strongly suspect that the ball valve is working the same way. I also add liquid detergent to an empty drum before adding clothes on the Miele, because I hate those dosing balls, never a problem with detergent loss.
Not sure what time exactly Miele begun adding tub seals. The AEG`s Ökoschleuse dates back to 1986, so I suppose Miele and others followed soon.
Honestly I have absolutely no clue how the latest generation of Mieles those with that recirculation bullshit wash system work in regards to tub sealing. Mine is 12 years old.[this post was last edited: 11/30/2016-11:19]
However it was an easy fix, I just flipped the rubberlip upside down and the "new" side of it outlasted the washer. It was a great washer.
Because I have seen a similar reservoir in my Miele and I can clearly hear how the seal "kicks in" when the pump stops, I`d strongly suspect that the ball valve is working the same way. I also add liquid detergent to an empty drum before adding clothes on the Miele, because I hate those dosing balls, never a problem with detergent loss.
Not sure what time exactly Miele begun adding tub seals. The AEG`s Ökoschleuse dates back to 1986, so I suppose Miele and others followed soon.
Honestly I have absolutely no clue how the latest generation of Mieles those with that recirculation bullshit wash system work in regards to tub sealing. Mine is 12 years old.[this post was last edited: 11/30/2016-11:19]
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
"recirculation bullshit wash system ..."
If the Miele recirculation system is anything like the Zanussi Jetsystem, then there will be no ball valve.
Zanussi non-jetsystem machines had a sump ball-valve on some models.
The Jetsystem models had a conventional unsealed sump, which led to the filter/recirculation pump chamber. The drain pump was connected to the recirculation chamber by a short conduit. Basically, the shared the same sump plumbing.
If the Miele recirculation system is anything like the Zanussi Jetsystem, then there will be no ball valve.
Zanussi non-jetsystem machines had a sump ball-valve on some models.
The Jetsystem models had a conventional unsealed sump, which led to the filter/recirculation pump chamber. The drain pump was connected to the recirculation chamber by a short conduit. Basically, the shared the same sump plumbing.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
then there will be no ball valve.
Sorry to disappoint (or delight) but the newest model for the US, W3048, has the same ball/concertina hose system for the sealing/drain that we've used for years. However, the European Miele market usually has some different products.
Chuck
Sorry to disappoint (or delight) but the newest model for the US, W3048, has the same ball/concertina hose system for the sealing/drain that we've used for years. However, the European Miele market usually has some different products.
Chuck
Oh, Stefan, I can tell you how they work:
They don't.
At least, that's what I'm hearing from friends still selling things in Germany. The last three years I've been so focused on things in the US, I'm out of touch with a lot.
They don't.
At least, that's what I'm hearing from friends still selling things in Germany. The last three years I've been so focused on things in the US, I'm out of touch with a lot.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
They don't.
In that case I hope they keep them over there!
Chuck
In that case I hope they keep them over there!
Chuck
Just to be clear, I don`t know the W1930 models, maybe Miele was eco valve wise really very late to the party, which is still kind of hard to imagine.
Are the W1930s that old ? IIRC even the cheap Bauknechts had one by the late 1980s.
If it has a ball valve (or flap valve) you should be able to hear a slight thunk when the pump stops as the backflowing water head from the reservoir builds up pressure.
It is also worth to mention that in times prior to eco valves while Miele was miles ahead by priming the sump-pump area over the prewash compartement this technology still had its drawbacks.
It works pretty good with the oldfashioned fluffy powders full of fillers, but some slowly dissolving heavy particles as found in more concentrated powders could still find their way into the pump unused for the washing process.
Are the W1930s that old ? IIRC even the cheap Bauknechts had one by the late 1980s.
If it has a ball valve (or flap valve) you should be able to hear a slight thunk when the pump stops as the backflowing water head from the reservoir builds up pressure.
It is also worth to mention that in times prior to eco valves while Miele was miles ahead by priming the sump-pump area over the prewash compartement this technology still had its drawbacks.
It works pretty good with the oldfashioned fluffy powders full of fillers, but some slowly dissolving heavy particles as found in more concentrated powders could still find their way into the pump unused for the washing process.
launderess
Well-known member
According to service manual
All 1900 series washing machines had the "Miele Eco Wash" system. Which avoids "wasting detergent by sealing Drain Outlet with a Ball Valve. Water is taken into "suds container" via "detergent dispense, concertina house, and siphon odor trap.
About the 1000, and 700 series manual does not say.
All 1900 series washing machines had the "Miele Eco Wash" system. Which avoids "wasting detergent by sealing Drain Outlet with a Ball Valve. Water is taken into "suds container" via "detergent dispense, concertina house, and siphon odor trap.
About the 1000, and 700 series manual does not say.
perc-o-prince
Well-known member
Are the W1930s that old ?
The US W1930s were made from 11/90 through 4/04.
Chuck
The US W1930s were made from 11/90 through 4/04.
Chuck
launderess
Well-known member
"concertina house"
Should read "hose".
Should read "hose".
launderess
Well-known member
Yes, the 1900 series are *that* old.
*LOL*
Miele introduced them to the USA replaced the 10XX (W1070 and W1065) series.
Las time one checked U.S. government states the W1918 and W1930 were "active" since 1997. The W1986 came one year later. Same source has the W12XX and W11XX washers as 2004.
Last time one checked like the W10xx series washers and matching dryers, and certain the W700 (same), Miele USA no longer imports parts for the 19XX series washers and matching dryers. Thus whatever inventory is on this shores is all there is, and MieleUSA will not order parts from Germany.
Also found out a several years ago (and posted at that time) MieleUSA no longer trains customer support/repair technicians (in house and factory trained third party) on the *older* units. Think far back as they go is the W12xx series.
*LOL*
Miele introduced them to the USA replaced the 10XX (W1070 and W1065) series.
Las time one checked U.S. government states the W1918 and W1930 were "active" since 1997. The W1986 came one year later. Same source has the W12XX and W11XX washers as 2004.
Last time one checked like the W10xx series washers and matching dryers, and certain the W700 (same), Miele USA no longer imports parts for the 19XX series washers and matching dryers. Thus whatever inventory is on this shores is all there is, and MieleUSA will not order parts from Germany.
Also found out a several years ago (and posted at that time) MieleUSA no longer trains customer support/repair technicians (in house and factory trained third party) on the *older* units. Think far back as they go is the W12xx series.
