New Persil launch "once in a decade break throuh"

[dixan]

"But still it is just a powder that has gone through an extruder in the manufacturing process. Just like Megaperls. Nothing new or groundbreaking about it, but they look nice and I`d like to try those Power Gems."

In fact, nothing like Megaperls. Completely different technology with minimum zeolite content. Megaperls are based on zeolites (about 40% or more) and this detergent contains less than 5%. Grounbreaking is the concentration: Powergems is more than two times more concentrated than the Megaperls.
Too bad Powergems doesn't contain oxygen bleach, but the price would be much higher.

 

[launderess]

While historically the use of strong scents/perfumes

Was used to cover up appalling B.O., this was mainly from other eras when personal hygiene meant bathing was something that occurred infrequently or not at all.

Europeans bathe as much as anyone else in the world, and that hold canard about French or others roaming around with a pong is getting old.

Being as this may what many do not subscribe to is the idea of dousing themselves with chemicals meant to prevent perspiration. Sweat is a perfectly normal biological function meant to rid the body of wastes in addition to cooling. You wouldn't want to stop the process of voiding liquid or solid waste would you?

Got on a NYC bus several days ago. At the back was sitting a group of several African young men. Could tell they were from that continent by the patios being spoken amongst themselves. They were all clean, well dressed and so forth; but the entire bus had a pong you wouldn't believe. Rather put on in mind of what the Black Stars locker room must smell like....

This was one of the newer NYC buses that are quite large vehicles, really two buses joined together, and had only a small number of passengers. Worse it being summer all windows were closed and the AC was running. So that pong was recycled inside that closed container of a bus...

Living in a place with a vast and growing homeless population am well acquainted with the scent of those who have not bathed in weeks (or years....) versus that of simple "sweat".

Upshot of all this palaver is that powerfully scented laundry or other products have nothing to do with covering up body odor, but simply are a result of makers following what marketing research tells them consumers want.

First time went to France on one's own and went shopping at Ed's was quite bowled over in the laundry product section. Shelf after shelf full of detergents and whatever that packed a powerful smell. This was some time ago now and things really have only gotten worse IMHO.

Many Americans who have moved and or otherwise living in France have noticed same:

http://www.davidlebovitz.com/the-notsosweet/

On this side of the pond the largest and fastest growing consumer demographic is Latino-Hispanic market. That group seems to prefer *very* strongly scented laundry and other cleaning products.

 

[mrboilwash]

Yes, right a larger quantity of the zeolithes seems to be replaced with EDTA (Tetrasodium Etidronate). That means less insoluble stuff is used which is probably very desirable for most consumers. Considering how toxic the stuff is for humans and the environment Henkel`s slogan "Quality and Responsibility" appears in a new light for me now.
Where did you find the dosing instructions and the data of ingredients in percent ?
Using less than half of the product (by volume?) compared to existing super concentrated powders is indeed groundbreaking.

When I was the first time of my life in Paris riding the Metro I was flabbergasted at the amount of perfume or cologne everybody has put on. Most Parisians could easily fill an entire cabin with scent. As a perfume lover I could even tell who is wearing what sometimes. Always put a big smile on my face. I think it`s an adorable twist in French culture and I hope it will stay as it is.

Americans seem to have a week spot for dryer sheets instead of perfume or cologne. At least that`s my impression as an outsider. I like that too.
I hope there won`t be such an intolerant witch hunt again as we`ve had against smokers.

 

[launderess]

Dryer sheets

Took off in the USA because top loading automatics were the dominate type of washing machine. Unless your machine had a fabric softener dispenser (many did not), one had to either rush to machine in order to catch the rinse, or reset the washer for another cycle in order to use liquid fabric softener.

When Cling Free and Bounce were introduced their main marketing ploy was about convenience. Now Madame (or anyone else doing the wash) didn't have to deal with her washer's rinse cycle.

Not to be out done; number one liquid fabric softener at that time (Downy by P&G) countered dryer sheets with advertising saying that unlike those products that "softened here and there" (meaning wherever the sheet landed during tumble drying), Downy softened the entire load; "Downy goes wherever water goes...".

P&G did introduce a Donwy dryer sheet (have some in my stash), but it didn't last long IIRC.

As for "weak spot" regarding dryer sheets, I don't know...

Have seen persons use a scented detergent, add those "unstoppables" and then toss one, two or more dryer sheets into machine with same load.

 

[aquarius1984]

I've spent 3 days washing varied loads in these.

I dislike the lack of bleach. Persil confirmed on the phone these variants are not suitable for whites.

Low water using machines can cause the gems to stick on the door boot which I have found will happen. They suds up on towels a lot despite containing no soap. However they rinse out well bar the door boot issue.

Not worth the money over regular powder by any means. I've tried but I won't buy again in a hurry.

The fragrance is very subtle on washed loads, just a light fresh scent. Nothing over powering at all.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Thanks for the consumer test.

Are they suitable to dose via the powder drawer?

 

[aquarius1984]

Yes I've done two loads via the drawer today and no issues though I'm not investigating further than the drawer cavity. I'm not prepared to start pulling apart a 12 month old TOL machine just yet lololol. I'd say they flushed thru ok.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Good testing!

It makes you wonder where exactly in the spectrum of detergents these PowerLentils are supposed to be positioned.

Not for Whites, because they have no bleach - yet the green (and blue, for that matter) packaging infers that they are a suitable replacement for standard powders.

You'd probably get out of these, equal performance to a liquid, or a Colour powder.

I'll wait until they have a rethink.

 

[dixan]

Tetrasodium EDTA is not toxic, mrboilwash. Anyway, zeolites are not much better for the environment either. They are removed from the waste waters, but they are very expensive to reactivate, so there are mountains of used zeolites. Phosphates were processed to fertilizers in the past; zeolites are just waste. The main problem with zeolites is that they are not good for the laundry - they are insoluble and very abrasive. That's why most of the companies decreased drastically zeolite content in their powders. Substituted them with sodium sulphate and sodium carbonate - not much better. Today's washing machines use very little water - the future is for the powders with very small doses (compacted) and minimum insoluble ingredients and fillers.
Don't get me wrong - Megaperls was and still is great detergent, especially regarding the bleaching action and surfactant content. When first launched it was revolutionary, however this formula is obsolete and need to be revised. Henkel will reformulate or discontinue them.

 

[launderess]

Previous comments not withstanding

Since this new product is designed to go into wash tub mayhaps lack of bleaching agents is a way to avoid possibility of textile damage.

Mega-Perls were meant to go into the dispenser and thus (hopefully) dissolve before coming into contact with wash. This new product that goes into tub/on top of washing combined with today's low to piddling water use machines could pose problems if they contained bleach.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"...avoid possibility of textile damage."

And by creating the product to be dispensed in that particular way, Unilever have perhaps made a rod for their own backs / painted themselves into a corner. They left out the bleach, but at what cost? Cleaning efficiency?

I for one, am not fond of some of the modern dosing devices with their sharp edges, clattering around in the drum. If I bought this product, I'd still dose via the drawer.

Maybe it is just me, but I fail to see what the problem is, that this product is the answer to. I see nothing revolutionary, like new enzymes, or cleaning 'accelerators', or fabric rejuvenators, or stain shields. Nothing stands out as new or inventive, that other products cannot already do.

Perhaps Persil PowerGems is just an exercise in design, in cahoots with University students? It really wouldn't surprise me.

 

[launderess]

Well the "problem" such as it tis comes from consumers for various reasons still wanting powders, thus forcing detergent manufactures to find ways that will satisfy that demand but also those of others.

Here in the USA at least "big box" powders of old (which usually if not always had large amounts of fillers) have given way to various "ultra" or compact versions. These formulas not only save in terms of transportation, stocking and other associated costs, but consumers don't need and environment is better off without all those fillers.

In the 1990's detergent makers thought a return to the tablet format was the way to go. That didn't work out so well (again), and once again tabs were withdrawn from the market. So what next?

While liquid, gels or whatever fluid format seems to have edged out powders, not everyone is thrilled. IIRC it was the German consumer testing group that bemoaned the "polluting" aspects of some liquid/fluid detergents.

Yes, commercial laundry detergent powders still come in huge containers. However if you examine the recommended dosages often it is a few to several ounces/grams for 100lbs of wash. That is pretty powerful stuff.

 

[launderess]

Dosing devices

Well the cap from Ariel Excel gel detergents is useless in the Oko-Lavamat. The thing uses so little water in wash that it can take ages (if ever) for entire gel to be flushed out of that cap. For liquid products it is wonderful IMHO.

 

[rolls_rapide]

"...to be flushed out of that cap"

That's what I liked about the Zanussi IZ machine. The pumped recirculating jet actually flushed dosing devices clear of detergent.

(I was using Lever's soft, pliable Radion ball, with P&G's Ariel liquid, at the time).

 

[launderess]

If one could open the machine and get our Lavamat's recirculation spray to aim inside cap and flush detergent out, would be right as rain. Sadly this isn't possible so am left with few options if want to use.

Sometimes will wait for machine to have filled with enough water but still not deactivated "Open Door" button, stop machine reach in and waggle the cap of detergent in water which has collected so far at bottom of tub. It is either this or take a bit of clothing or whatever and scoop product out.

Needless to say that Ariel gel in Alpine Fresh scent rarely sees use in the AEG. It is all too much bother..... *LOL*

 

[rolls_rapide]

Hmm.

I'll tell you what I did, when I discovered Ariel liquid was not flushed clear from the dispenser drawer of my new machine. It is more viscous than store brands.

I had an old 1 litre detergent bottle, empty, with screw cap. I half filled it with Ariel, added cold water slowly to almost fill the bottle, replaced the cap, and rocked the bottle gently like a seesaw several times to mix the detergent, not to create foam.

The detergent is now easily dosed by the bottle cap, via the drawer, and behaves more like shop brands, easily flushed from the drawer.

 

[mamapinky]

Problem with adding water to the detergent is water will grow bacterias quickly. I'm not sure if there's enough preservatives in that detergent to also keep the water safe. Reason I know this is neighbor was not happy about her son using all the liquid bath soap so quickly so she removed half and added water..well son left and returned several weeks later and wasn't long before he ended up with some kinda skin infection that the doctor blames the water in the soap caused. This kid had no medical so mother paid out of pocket I'd say she didn't save anything adding water to that soap. Lol

 

[launderess]

In general unless going to be dispensed/used at once one should *NEVER* add tap water to dilute anything. Especially if it is to be left sitting.

All fluid products are made with preservatives to keep germ/mould and other nasty things at bay or count low enough not to cause harm. Tap water is NOT sterile and the use of it will introduce bacteria and all sorts into said product. Even in nursing/medicine when sterile water is introduced to make up a solution (under sterile conditions) the solution does not have an infinite "shelf life".

Even worse whatever is lurking in that tap water may find nice things to feast and grow upon in product it has been introduced.

 

[mrsalvo]

"I am wondering why exactly the fragrances are SO strong. Is it an attempt to cover up horrible chemical smells of modern formulations?"

Rolls_Rapide, I think you hit the nail right on the head!! I think that is exactly why the scents are so strong. As stated in a thread a couple of months ago about visiting friends & relatives, one relative washed towels in cold water with All Free & Clear and using the same fabric softner, evidently lots of it. The towels reeked of a strong industrial chemical smell, overlaid with a distinctive moldy odor as well. The whole experience was...well, you can only imagine. I unscrewed a cap from All and it smelled strongly industrial, so much for free and clear.
My 2 cents.

Barry

 

[dixan]

"Since this new product is designed to go into wash tub mayhaps lack of bleaching agents is a way to avoid possibility of textile damage."

Interesting logic but not quite correct in my oppinion. The product is not designed to go into wash tub; it have to put into the drum because obviously during tests there were problems with dissolving when put in the drawer. It was the same with the first versions of Ariel compact powder and Persil/Skip/OMO tablets - they sold these products with a net bags to be put in the drum. However Ariel compact powder and Persil/Skip/OMO tablets did contain oxygen bleach and didn't damage anything.
The lack of bleach in Powergems is maybe because they couldn't incorporate it in the formula with the same level of compactation and mainly - concentration, effectiveness and stability.
Henkel have product called Persil Power-Mix Caps - in one compartment of the cap there is liquid and in the other - powder. In Power-Mix Caps for whites the powder contained oxygen bleach in the first bathes. However the powder part was very unstable for some reason and from white was turning brown for several months. Now the formula don't contain bleach.
In the final, there is belief that "ultra" or compact powder is more concentrated because they remove part of the fillers. It's not that simple. Indeed, they decrease the filler level but the main is the granulation technology used in compact powders. Remove the fillers from a powder granulated in the traditional way and you will have a mess.