News from Whirlpool

[mr_sparkle]

Ohhhh

Oh I never knew that US front loaders did not heat the water, I assumed that all front loaders only have a cold fill and heat the water a little themselves like washers in the UK / Europe.

I never wash hotter than 30 degrees C, maybe 40 now and then but I find its not really needed, and I do not feel the need to boil any of my clothes for sanitation.

Do you run many cold washes in Italy? I know in most of Europe we wash pretty low temp, in Spain they wash cold but was interested in what Italy does?

I would love a top loader myself, and may get one but the BIGGEST hurdle for me is the water use! Knowing the tiny amount of water our modern A+++ energy rated washers use, I have a hard time convincing myself that I need to fill that massive drum full of water, it just feels wrong to me! I guess we have had it drummed into us in Europe about water waste etc.... Hmmmmmmmm But I love top loaders!

I forget that in the US they only run appliances at 110v, I wonder if that causes a major problem with electrical appliances. I hear that some homes are wired with 220 like we are, but I dont get why 110 was used to begin with? Was it just a saftey consideration?

 

[pierreandreply4]

I think that models that have the sanitize cycle comes with a water heater in them. but it depends on the model

 

[vivalalavatrice]

Italian wash habits

Everyone makes it differently but more or less is like below:

- 30/40°C Non-colourfast and delicates, sometimes cold wash specially for wool
- 40/60°C Colourfast and low/medium-soiled whites
- upper than 60°C is used fo sanitaze or for heavy-soiled but very very rarely. I know very very few pepole used/using 90°C, mom's never done, but 70°C was is favourite temp cause she used to soak (with BIO-Presto) 1 night all whites!

Sometimes a prewash is added by users in low temperature cycles to be the wash more effective but honestly not so often.

Bye
Diomede

 

[launderess]

110V In US Homes

Aside from perhaps ranges,hot water heaters,heaters (air, boilers, furnaces, dryers and perhaps air conditioners, most USA homes do not have appliances that require 220v power.

Electric power was first used in US homes for lighting, then clever persons (including power companies and or their builders) wanted to increase demand and started designing and building all and sundry sort of consumer appliances to run on electric power. When it came to laundry, most homes got their hot water from a central boiler/heater.

Since the United States has abundant natural resources of coal, petrol, and natural gas, these were what was used for heating and hot water, then when the switch was made to electric, fuels were used in power plants to generate electric power. Far better to have one large power plant supply electric power for running boilers and heating in area homes, than all those homes burning coal themselves.

Where one lived also played a role, as there were "all electric homes" in areas where power was quite cheap. However coal and oil normally were cheaper still, so unless things were being given away....

 

[mark_wpduet]

Finally

An option for deep rinse!!!

Is this option only available on the TOL model?

 

[logixx]

I suppose "Max Rinse" is the same as "Skin Care Rinse II" on the Kenmore HE front loaders.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Oh Mr. Sparkle, you appear to have missed so many debates regarding electiral systms in different regions and how that has influend the evolution of appliances and laundry methods.

~I forget that in the US they only run appliances at 110v, I wonder if that causes a major problem with electrical appliances.

There is no problem whatsoever. As a matter of fact our American dryers use 5,000 watt heaters and a dedicated special-purpose 220v 30a electrical line precisely because we can't plug-n-play into any ordinary socket/outlet (power-point) as 220v lands can.

~I hear that some homes are wired with 220 like we are.

Yes and no. We do not use 220v except for high-draw high-wattage appliaces. Regualr electical voltage is 110v in ALL homes in this coutnry and Canada. Since the 1950's most residences have 110/220v three-wire service. Hot #1 to neutral is 110v. Hot #2 to neutral is 110v. Hot to hot is 220v

But I don't get why 110 was used to begin with? Was it just a saftey consideration?

JUST a safety consideration? A Cypriot electrician (now living in ht U.S, once said: The only difference between electricty in Europe and the U.S. is: if you make a mistake in the U.S with electricity, you get to live to be able to do it again.

IIRC this was the first country to electrify and that was the standard chosen. There were very few appliances at first:

Lamps
Fans
Toasters
Vacuum cleaners
Radios

Electricty was, at first 110v, in other lands as well. It was decided that 220v was more economical, more flexible (to shoot more wattage through wires of the same gauge,as opposed to 110v) and needed less copper. But perhaps the most important realization was, one still needs 220v for big draw appliances anyway so why bother with 110v? Europe converted to 220v slowly as it was easier to do as electricity and appliance ownership was not as well saturated as it was in the the U.S -- was making conversion here impractical.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Cold fill in Europe evolved in that constant hot water was not avaible until a few decades ago there. Similarly front-loaders use so little water by the time a hot fill reaches the machine the water may not have yet warmed up in the pipes, especially in long pipe-runs.

Washing variables:

1- Plentiful Water
2- Mechanical wash action
3- Chemcials /additives
4- Heat
5- Time

Top-loaders provide #1,#2 & #3
Front loaders rely upon #3,#4 and #5.

So you see 220v facilitates large-wattage heaters and make front-loaders more practical and a more workable option.

So from what I have seen in these endless debates over whose system is better- here it is in a nutshell.

That which one is accustoemed to is believed to be better.
But let's not forget that eletrical and mechanical system in one's reigion play a HUGE role in how laundry machines and indeed laundry procedures evolved.

 

[favorit]

thanks Toggles

just now i realize your 220V supplies aren't plug'n'play like ours . I have always been thinkin' : "Why don't they unplug the dryer, plug the 2000 or 3000 W washer in the outlet, then swap it all when it's time to dry ??"

Anyway vintage euro FL filled with plenty of water even while washing (I'm thinking of such tanks as the Constructa - google it on youtube it's real fun, expecially the sudden spin with the tub full of water )
And you're right (about #1) : some wintage mieles performed a boilwash within 70 minutes . The 6000 W heater boiled water from tap cold within 6 or 7 mins ...

 

[launderess]

One Must Understand

"Boil Washing" went on well past WWII in Europe, and indeed the health standards for commercial laundries in most countries still mandate wash temperatures >160F for at least 10 minutes. Previous to electric powered heaters, early washing machines in Europe had fuel fired boilers. Early washing machines without a way to boil laundry did not sell well at all.

Consider also much of Europe, was in ruins after WWII, thus it was quite easy to "build from scratch" as it was not only an power stations, and infrastructure, but to wire homes and buildings. As Toggles stated, for various reasons it makes more sense for appliances that require hot water to heat it themselves, and for that to be done quickly it requires 220v or even 400v power. I've seen ironers and washing machines in domestic use in parts of Germany that run on 400v power, something one would NEVER see in the United States.

Wholesale switching over to 220v power would cause chaos in the United States. Some local areas to get out of the need for more power plants needing to be built are trying to get consumers to chuck electric heated dryers, hot water heaters and the lot.

 

[favorit]

Coal fired Miele

Just about the fuel fired washers Launderess mentioned,
here are, from the German Forum pics of the day, some mieles from the fifties. They could be coal/gas/steam/electric heated. The cylinder was made in copper.
At those time the 1st rinse was operated in very hot water, the 2nd in warm water the 3rd in cool water
So in the coal/gas models the fire was on even after the wash bath drain.
To do the same thing, electric heated models (4500 W) could have an additional boiled (total power n i n e KW ,just like four modern frontloaders)

http://www.waschmaschinen-forum.de/....php?Sprache=Deutsch&Tag=13&Monat=9&Jahr=2006

 

[mrb627]

Fan Fresh

Has anyone figured out what the "Fan Fresh" button does on the new Duet?

 

[favorit]

Fan fresh

quote from the starting post of this thread :

"Although I am not as impressed with the 9750 as I thought it would be, really the only difference is a few more cycles, .1 cu. ft. bigger and a “Fanfresh” to air out the washer to help prevent mildew."

IMHO, if one keeps on washing always cold, the fanfresh is useless. It's better running whites now and then @ hottest temp with bleach (or use sanitary on electrically heated models)

 

[foraloysius]

Actually some European countries had lower voltages too in the past, but they converted in time. In the Netherlands until the sixties both 127V and 220V both were used. Then all households had to change to 220V. In some parts of the country it was done by putting 127V on two hot wires, which can be compared to the 220V in the USA. According to Wikipedia NL, in 2003 there were still parts in Amsterdam that got 220V that way!

 

[mielabor]

I had the 127 V two hot wire system till the end of the 1990's. With this system I have had an electric shock three times so I can imagine what it feels like when touching a 110 V live wire (well, maybe not exactly because it was only 50 Hz). First I got a shock when I was a child and I kept my finger on the metal pin of a plug while inserting it in the socket. I got another shock when I touched the live frame of an old radio set. And the last time was when I touched a metal conduit (via a metal vacuum cleaner tube!) that was live because of a wire with damaged insulation. I have survived all shocks without injuries!

I have seen the same system in Brussels in the 1990's.

 

[suburbanmd]

Some perspective on 240V in US

The fact is, anyone in the US living in a single-family house or townhouse, with reasonably up-to-date electrical service, can get an electrician to install a 240V outlet for a washing machine. The cost would range from a couple hundred to a few hundred, depending on details of the job, and where you live. This is a one-time cost that isn't prohibitive. It's common to spend much more on home renovation projects.

So, notwithstanding all the discussion about why we have 120V while Europe has 220V, and how hard it would be to convert the whole country, 240V is easily available here, if people want it. The diminishing availability of 240V washers here just shows that people haven't been convinced to want it. There are also the Energy Star considerations, but I think those are a matter of tax credits, not outright prohibition of machines using more energy. So that, too, boils down to whether people are willing to spend a little more to make up for the tax credit that a manufacturer might lose by selling a machine that uses more juice.

 

[mielabor]

I took this picture last May. It is the interior of a print shop in the centre of Amsterdam. It seems that they are still using the two phase 127 V system there.

The green arrow points to a fuse box that is typical for this system (two fuses in a circuit). Note also that the fuses are what we call "automatic fuses", meaning that they can be reset by pressing the black button in the middle.

 

[toggleswitch2]

I have acutally seen some very very old (1-phase)wiring here that has a fuse-protected neutral, which is considered a big no-no nowadays.

~Why don't they unplug the dryer, plug the 2,000w or 3,000w washer in the outlet, then swap it all when it's time to dry?"

Not everyone has a 220v 30a dedicated dryer outlet in the USA. In NYC most dryers are GAS heated.

Besides, one of the best ways (read: quickest) to do many loads in succession is to have the W & D running simultaneously!

U.S. top loaders 30 minutes wash + 60 minutes dry = 90 minutes.
U.S front-loaders 45 (to 60 minutes) wash + 45 minutes dry = 90 minutes.

 

[favorit]

Some questions

# what is the coil wattage in the heated US Duets ?

The euro one (Dreamspace), despite it is a double size washer, has a 1900 W coil as standard machines. I guess whirlpool used a undersized coil to have a slow heat up , so to enhance enzyme based detergents action.

# US toploaders - which current models have the fastest spin ?

T.I.A.
Carlo

 

[aldspinboy]

1000 w Boring and slow.

Darren k