Now Let's Talk About Planes/Airlines
- Thread starter launderess
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whirlcool
Well-known member
Domestic and even International air travel on America's airlines sucks compared to what you can get for the same money on foreign carriers. The US carriers are nickle and diming the passengers to death. At NW we even charge $15 extra for a window or aisle seat if you request it. Of course if you are a platinum level frequent flier, you don't have to pay. Fees for baggage, fees for soft drinks, it's terrible. It seems that our airlines are coming up with new ways to drive away the passengers.
Anyway here I go through another merger. The North Central, Southern and Hughes Airwest merger wasn't that bad. But the Republic merger with Northwest was a nightmare. I think the Northwest/Delta merger is going to go the same way. This time it'll be the NW people getting the shaft instead of the Republic people.
The link leads to a news story about the Republic / Northwest merger. We are hearing the same words being bandied around again. Listen to the "corporate speak" in this video and tell me if you can't hear the gloom and doom coming!
Anyway here I go through another merger. The North Central, Southern and Hughes Airwest merger wasn't that bad. But the Republic merger with Northwest was a nightmare. I think the Northwest/Delta merger is going to go the same way. This time it'll be the NW people getting the shaft instead of the Republic people.
The link leads to a news story about the Republic / Northwest merger. We are hearing the same words being bandied around again. Listen to the "corporate speak" in this video and tell me if you can't hear the gloom and doom coming!
Its EXACTLY the same over here. You get a little more 'luxury' on transatlantic and other long haul flights, but in general it's nothing on what it was even 10 years ago. Typically they still include basic meals etc.
On intra-european routes, it's increasingly a case of paying for meals on board, paying for beverages etc. Ryanair (Ireland's other airline) has set that trend in a huge way. It's now the 3rd largest airline (by passenger numbers) in Europe and has been hugely successful with an agressively low fares, low frills model of business.
Other airlines, including flag carriers like Aer Lingus, have been forced to compete so have trimmed off a lot of the extras.
Baggage charges to discourage check-in luggage.
Fees for exit row seats.
Fees for priority boarding.
Fees for not checking in on line.
No 'freebees' on board, you pay for food, pay for drinks.
Seems increasingly common.
On intra-european routes, it's increasingly a case of paying for meals on board, paying for beverages etc. Ryanair (Ireland's other airline) has set that trend in a huge way. It's now the 3rd largest airline (by passenger numbers) in Europe and has been hugely successful with an agressively low fares, low frills model of business.
Other airlines, including flag carriers like Aer Lingus, have been forced to compete so have trimmed off a lot of the extras.
Baggage charges to discourage check-in luggage.
Fees for exit row seats.
Fees for priority boarding.
Fees for not checking in on line.
No 'freebees' on board, you pay for food, pay for drinks.
Seems increasingly common.
beadsobleach
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 179
Vickers Viscount
One of the coolest planes I ever flew on was an Air Canada Viscount turbo-prop. I flew it from Halifax to Boston around 1969. It had those huge oval windows and flew low enough to easily see the ships on the Atlantic. I remember seeing the Rolls-Royce badges on the engines. I also flew on a DC-8 Boston to Munich in 1972, Overseas National Airlines, on a school trip. Also the Eastern Airlines shuttle and Northeast Airlines Yellowbirds.
One of the coolest planes I ever flew on was an Air Canada Viscount turbo-prop. I flew it from Halifax to Boston around 1969. It had those huge oval windows and flew low enough to easily see the ships on the Atlantic. I remember seeing the Rolls-Royce badges on the engines. I also flew on a DC-8 Boston to Munich in 1972, Overseas National Airlines, on a school trip. Also the Eastern Airlines shuttle and Northeast Airlines Yellowbirds.
whirlcool
Well-known member
Good Ole' Pam Ann. I never got to see her on stage, but she tours somewhat regularly. Is she a drag queen?
There is another Flight Attendant that quit the airlines back in the 90's and she has a stage show that I have seen. Her name seems to escape me now, but she does a similar show to Pam Ann.
There is another Flight Attendant that quit the airlines back in the 90's and she has a stage show that I have seen. Her name seems to escape me now, but she does a similar show to Pam Ann.
I had lots of ear problems when I was younger, and we traveled a lot by airplane from Cranbrook BC to Calgary AB to see an ENT specialist.
At one of our trips we were on the same flight that crashed two weeks later. The airplane was a Boeing 737, Flight 314, February 11, 1978. Over 40 people died (all in the front of the airplane). The cause of the crash was a combination of pilot error, air traffic, equipment hydraulic failure, weather and the slow plow. I was in grade 3 then and I ended up reading lots about planes. I was so lucky we weren’t on that flight.
Bob
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/f....html?id=138a96fa-3cfd-4bce-99de-0151497ef3c5
At one of our trips we were on the same flight that crashed two weeks later. The airplane was a Boeing 737, Flight 314, February 11, 1978. Over 40 people died (all in the front of the airplane). The cause of the crash was a combination of pilot error, air traffic, equipment hydraulic failure, weather and the slow plow. I was in grade 3 then and I ended up reading lots about planes. I was so lucky we weren’t on that flight.
Bob
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/f....html?id=138a96fa-3cfd-4bce-99de-0151497ef3c5
launderess
Well-known member
Cheap Flights and "Bus In The Sky" Mindset
When one was in college, used to fly tower air to Europe, as they usually had the cheapest student rates.
As the travel office at my college put it, "don't expect more than a bus in the air, and you'll be happy".
Tower Air actually wasn't that bad.
Planes were 747's and most always were full.
Very good security, long before 9/11/01. Remember one flight out of JFK, had a bottle of water in my hand, and the officer at the gate stopped me and stated clearly was to drink a good amount of the water before boarding. Explained the bottle was just purchased (in the city, before leaving), and hadn't yet been opened (it was for drinking in flight); and was promptly and politely told off. Either one drank from the bottle and was allowed to board, discard the bottle and be allowed to board, or keep the bottle without drinking and be refused boarding. Guess which option I choose?
Flights generally weren't that bad for "charter" airline. Inflight movie, rather decent meals, free bevs, and coffee and rolls in the AM before we landed at Orly. As one tends to fly with either Prince Valium or his cousin the Duke of Xanax, the hot coffee was much welcomed.
Always loved Orly airport. Usually arrived early AM French time, and loved seeing the rabbits run across the runways as the plane landed! *LOL*
So sad most everything international is out of CDG. Orly was much easier to get to from central Paris via train.
L.
When one was in college, used to fly tower air to Europe, as they usually had the cheapest student rates.
As the travel office at my college put it, "don't expect more than a bus in the air, and you'll be happy".
Tower Air actually wasn't that bad.
Planes were 747's and most always were full.
Very good security, long before 9/11/01. Remember one flight out of JFK, had a bottle of water in my hand, and the officer at the gate stopped me and stated clearly was to drink a good amount of the water before boarding. Explained the bottle was just purchased (in the city, before leaving), and hadn't yet been opened (it was for drinking in flight); and was promptly and politely told off. Either one drank from the bottle and was allowed to board, discard the bottle and be allowed to board, or keep the bottle without drinking and be refused boarding. Guess which option I choose?
Flights generally weren't that bad for "charter" airline. Inflight movie, rather decent meals, free bevs, and coffee and rolls in the AM before we landed at Orly. As one tends to fly with either Prince Valium or his cousin the Duke of Xanax, the hot coffee was much welcomed.
Always loved Orly airport. Usually arrived early AM French time, and loved seeing the rabbits run across the runways as the plane landed! *LOL*
So sad most everything international is out of CDG. Orly was much easier to get to from central Paris via train.
L.
launderess
Well-known member
Pan Am & The 747
The 747 was the start of modern Pan Am's woes and some say was one of the first nails in the coffin.
Pan Am couldn't have foreseen what was coming down the pike in terms of deregulation, which left it badly exposed with little to no domestic US routes. Further inroads by other carriers meant Pan Am had to fly those huge planes often half empty, as they drank fuel across the oceas of the world.
IIRC, today many US airlines are mothballing or otherwise getting rid of 747's. They are just too large and drink too much fuel.
Of course now the favourite "uber" jet is the Airbus 380. Shown here in Qantas (another of my favourite airlines) colours.
The 747 was the start of modern Pan Am's woes and some say was one of the first nails in the coffin.
Pan Am couldn't have foreseen what was coming down the pike in terms of deregulation, which left it badly exposed with little to no domestic US routes. Further inroads by other carriers meant Pan Am had to fly those huge planes often half empty, as they drank fuel across the oceas of the world.
IIRC, today many US airlines are mothballing or otherwise getting rid of 747's. They are just too large and drink too much fuel.
Of course now the favourite "uber" jet is the Airbus 380. Shown here in Qantas (another of my favourite airlines) colours.
REAL Safety demo from Kulula Airlines in South Africa
These guys do amusing safety demos, although I don't know that these would comply with European or US safety regulations. I think we require them to be taken quite seriously.
Try this out, quite amusing. Although, her accent's pretty difficult to get initially.
These guys do amusing safety demos, although I don't know that these would comply with European or US safety regulations. I think we require them to be taken quite seriously.
Try this out, quite amusing. Although, her accent's pretty difficult to get initially.
revvinkevin
Well-known member
A British "airline" commercial...... very funny!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5131440406610303281
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5131440406610303281
I'm far too young to experience the glory days of flying. I believe my first flight was in '91 on Southwest. Great thing about Southwest is that the service has been the same throughout the years. Mechanical wise (I've heard horror stories of preventive maintenance stretched well beyond its schedule with several airlines) may be another story these days.
I'd say the following TWA clip would be my favorite airline commercial. It's so catchy that I find myself playing it often.
I'd say the following TWA clip would be my favorite airline commercial. It's so catchy that I find myself playing it often.
American Airlines Retrojet!!!
This is what we are missing...grand old airline livery!
This is what we are missing...grand old airline livery!
whirlcool
Well-known member
Laundress:
The TSA didn't start limiting beverages onboard until immediately after 9/11. Recently they relaxed the liquid rule slightly. But it still is a major PITA.
Tower Air. I am glad you survived it! They had mostly third and fourth hand 747's and their maintenance was the worst in the business. If you looked around the cabin, you'd see logos for 3 or 4 different airlines in the cabin. Once when one of their planes was taking off out of JFK, the first officers panel fell back and almost wedged itself between the control column and the bottom of the panel (The panel is the dashboard). Only the quick action of the First Officer prevented this from causing a crash by jamming the control panel. The maintenance guy forgot to screw the panel back in place after working on it and signing the plane off for duty!
Tower Air also was noted for departures that would be 6 or 7 hours late, it they left at all!
Read this link.
http://everything2.com/e2node/Tower%20Air
The TSA didn't start limiting beverages onboard until immediately after 9/11. Recently they relaxed the liquid rule slightly. But it still is a major PITA.
Tower Air. I am glad you survived it! They had mostly third and fourth hand 747's and their maintenance was the worst in the business. If you looked around the cabin, you'd see logos for 3 or 4 different airlines in the cabin. Once when one of their planes was taking off out of JFK, the first officers panel fell back and almost wedged itself between the control column and the bottom of the panel (The panel is the dashboard). Only the quick action of the First Officer prevented this from causing a crash by jamming the control panel. The maintenance guy forgot to screw the panel back in place after working on it and signing the plane off for duty!
Tower Air also was noted for departures that would be 6 or 7 hours late, it they left at all!
Read this link.
http://everything2.com/e2node/Tower%20Air
revvinkevin
Well-known member
Air plane photos..........
I remember (or at least I THINK I remember) my first flight on an air plane was on a DC-10 going to (who knows where). I think I was maybe 8 or 10 years old and I remember it being HUGE!
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How about what's left of the airlines today? On my recent trip (August) to the Philippines I was fortunate enough to be in business class (photo below) on Singapore Airlines (going) and Asiana (returning). Both had seats which, at the touch of a button, lay out flat so you can stretch out and sleep. I have to say that the Asian airlines KNOW how to do it, especially compaired to United! (Uniteds fleet is SOOO old now!)
===========
IF anyone is interested, I have a PowerPoint slideshow with 52 pretty stunning photos of both commercial and military aircraft. Obviously I cannot post it or all those photos here, SO..... if any of you are interested, please send me an e-mail and I will send it to you.
[email protected]
I remember (or at least I THINK I remember) my first flight on an air plane was on a DC-10 going to (who knows where). I think I was maybe 8 or 10 years old and I remember it being HUGE!
===========
How about what's left of the airlines today? On my recent trip (August) to the Philippines I was fortunate enough to be in business class (photo below) on Singapore Airlines (going) and Asiana (returning). Both had seats which, at the touch of a button, lay out flat so you can stretch out and sleep. I have to say that the Asian airlines KNOW how to do it, especially compaired to United! (Uniteds fleet is SOOO old now!)
===========
IF anyone is interested, I have a PowerPoint slideshow with 52 pretty stunning photos of both commercial and military aircraft. Obviously I cannot post it or all those photos here, SO..... if any of you are interested, please send me an e-mail and I will send it to you.
[email protected]
Allen, I remember my first trip to Mexico in 1972 involved a flight on an Aeronaves 727. Clearly, it had been a PSA plane before, as it had a cable car motif for interior decor. IIRC, it may not have even had compartments with doors on them for overhead storage, just a long shelf that ran down either side of the interior.
whirlcool
Well-known member
You could upload the PP file somewhere and then link to it.
Rp2813 -
The open shelves you mentioned I think are what some called 'hat-racks'. They were used in first generation 707, 720, 727 and 737 aircraft, as well as Convairs and DC-8s, until the advent of widebodies with the enclosed bins, at which time new interiors were devised with the enclosed, less cluttered and more streamlined looking bins and sculptured ceiling panels.
Some airlines retrofitted "wide-look" interiors on their aircraft as soon as they became available (American for one) while others never did (TWA, at least on 707s). United was half-half on their early 727s by installing closed bins but not the rest of the upgrades. These interiors became standard on aircraft in new-build equipment by the early 70s I believe.
I remember flying two TWA 707s in 1982, and two Piedmont 721 aircraft (one was the actual DB Cooper plane) later that same year, and the cabin staff was by then having problems on the four flights with passengers thinking they could stow their carry-ons on the racks, which were available only for pillows and blankets (and maybe hats), no carry-on luggage. FAA regs didn't allow any bags up there. Nowadays that would be an enormous inconvenience and they're odd to even see pictures of.
The open shelves you mentioned I think are what some called 'hat-racks'. They were used in first generation 707, 720, 727 and 737 aircraft, as well as Convairs and DC-8s, until the advent of widebodies with the enclosed bins, at which time new interiors were devised with the enclosed, less cluttered and more streamlined looking bins and sculptured ceiling panels.
Some airlines retrofitted "wide-look" interiors on their aircraft as soon as they became available (American for one) while others never did (TWA, at least on 707s). United was half-half on their early 727s by installing closed bins but not the rest of the upgrades. These interiors became standard on aircraft in new-build equipment by the early 70s I believe.
I remember flying two TWA 707s in 1982, and two Piedmont 721 aircraft (one was the actual DB Cooper plane) later that same year, and the cabin staff was by then having problems on the four flights with passengers thinking they could stow their carry-ons on the racks, which were available only for pillows and blankets (and maybe hats), no carry-on luggage. FAA regs didn't allow any bags up there. Nowadays that would be an enormous inconvenience and they're odd to even see pictures of.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
My first flight in any airplane was in a 707 from SF to Portland around 1968. I remember being thrilled by the rapid acceleration on takeoff - something I hadn't really expected but I found pleasurable. I also liked the food - it was pretty good, as I recall. Can't remember the airline, but it was probably American or United.
My most favorite flight was in an old DC-3 from Tikal to Guatemala City around 1978. The engines were turboprop but the interior looked unchanged from the 30's - leatherette seats with stainless tube frames that could have been off a 30's PCC streetcar. We flew low and slow and although I had an aisle seat the view was amazing.
My favorite modern airline is Virgin Atlantic. I flew a lot on business related travel in the 90's, and the flight from SF to London stood out as the best experience. By contrast, I found most shorter hop flights on United to be dreadful. Surly flight attendants, little concern for travelers' actual needs. I remember once a flight attendent taking $20 from me for a set of headphones, then taking an hour or two to return the change, and then only grudgingly.I can only assume it's gotten worse since 9/11. Haven't flown much since then, and can't say I miss the airborne Greyhound bus experience or the hotel rooms, which however nice all start to look, smell, and feel the same.
I was very glad, however, when they banned smoking from US flights. There was no smoke-free zone on flights that restricted smoking to the rear of the plane. The air recirculation systems made sure of that.
I recall during my hippier days flying World Airways from Oakland to Honolulu in the 70's. I was really jonesing for a joint - which I had in my carry-on - but I remember a military looking guy sitting in a jump seat just in front of me, glaring at me, so I refrained from retreating to the restroom to light one up.
The strangest flight I had was on Aloha Airlines island hopping in Hawaii in the early 80's. I remember the outer wall of the cabin would flex when climbing so much that it nearly crushed my fingers that were gripping the handrest near the window. A year or two later an Aloha Airlines jet lost the top of its cabin in flight from metal fatigue. I always wondered if it was the same jet.
My naughty passenger moments included transporting camp fuel in an aluminum bottle in the luggage compartment - I didn't realize it was taboo. Fortunately it was a strong bottle with a good seal and it didn't leak a bit. On the flight back though I had to dump the contents out before checking the backpack. Another time I listened to AM radio on my waterproof Walkman... marveling at how the stations came and went so quickly over the mid-west. Then the flight attendent came by and made me shut it off - a few minutes later the pilot apologized that we'd be slightly delayed because we were slightly off course... never did that again...
My most favorite flight was in an old DC-3 from Tikal to Guatemala City around 1978. The engines were turboprop but the interior looked unchanged from the 30's - leatherette seats with stainless tube frames that could have been off a 30's PCC streetcar. We flew low and slow and although I had an aisle seat the view was amazing.
My favorite modern airline is Virgin Atlantic. I flew a lot on business related travel in the 90's, and the flight from SF to London stood out as the best experience. By contrast, I found most shorter hop flights on United to be dreadful. Surly flight attendants, little concern for travelers' actual needs. I remember once a flight attendent taking $20 from me for a set of headphones, then taking an hour or two to return the change, and then only grudgingly.I can only assume it's gotten worse since 9/11. Haven't flown much since then, and can't say I miss the airborne Greyhound bus experience or the hotel rooms, which however nice all start to look, smell, and feel the same.
I was very glad, however, when they banned smoking from US flights. There was no smoke-free zone on flights that restricted smoking to the rear of the plane. The air recirculation systems made sure of that.
I recall during my hippier days flying World Airways from Oakland to Honolulu in the 70's. I was really jonesing for a joint - which I had in my carry-on - but I remember a military looking guy sitting in a jump seat just in front of me, glaring at me, so I refrained from retreating to the restroom to light one up.
The strangest flight I had was on Aloha Airlines island hopping in Hawaii in the early 80's. I remember the outer wall of the cabin would flex when climbing so much that it nearly crushed my fingers that were gripping the handrest near the window. A year or two later an Aloha Airlines jet lost the top of its cabin in flight from metal fatigue. I always wondered if it was the same jet.
My naughty passenger moments included transporting camp fuel in an aluminum bottle in the luggage compartment - I didn't realize it was taboo. Fortunately it was a strong bottle with a good seal and it didn't leak a bit. On the flight back though I had to dump the contents out before checking the backpack. Another time I listened to AM radio on my waterproof Walkman... marveling at how the stations came and went so quickly over the mid-west. Then the flight attendent came by and made me shut it off - a few minutes later the pilot apologized that we'd be slightly delayed because we were slightly off course... never did that again...
Japan Airlines
Just read an interesting article about Japan Airlines and its training facility in Moses Lake, Washington. It is the end of an era...
Here is a short excerpt:
"Japan Airlines flies all over the world, but nearly all its crews are familiar with Moses Lake. Even before they arrive in the land of sagebrush and scrub – snakes occasionally slither into the JAL offices – they know what to expect. By then, they’ve spent hours looking down at the Grant County landscape through the fake windshields of flight simulators in Japan.
"That computer-generated scene will change when the company stops training in Moses Lake, said Captain Kazuo Noda, director of the Moses Lake training center."
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=17776
Just read an interesting article about Japan Airlines and its training facility in Moses Lake, Washington. It is the end of an era...
Here is a short excerpt:
"Japan Airlines flies all over the world, but nearly all its crews are familiar with Moses Lake. Even before they arrive in the land of sagebrush and scrub – snakes occasionally slither into the JAL offices – they know what to expect. By then, they’ve spent hours looking down at the Grant County landscape through the fake windshields of flight simulators in Japan.
"That computer-generated scene will change when the company stops training in Moses Lake, said Captain Kazuo Noda, director of the Moses Lake training center."
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=17776
revvinkevin
Well-known member
Whirlcool, where do you suggest I upload it??
Here is a photo I took out the window @ 39000 feet and 538 MPH, in route from Seoul, South Korea back to Los Angeles in September. Hope you like it!
Here is a photo I took out the window @ 39000 feet and 538 MPH, in route from Seoul, South Korea back to Los Angeles in September. Hope you like it!
I'm not a smoker, but I am just curious as to whether there are any airlines left that allow smoking?
It's been banned here for quite a long time. I have no memory of ever flying on an aircraft where smoking was allowed and I'm in my mid 20s.
Smoking in any enclosed area apart from your own home's illegal here in Ireland for quite a few years now too (March 2004). It also extends to ALL work places, so technically it's illegal to smoke in the cab of a truck, even if you're the only occupant and have no other passengers as it's a work place.
Airlines banned smoking quite a long time before that though.
However, nowadays you can only smoke outside the airport (usually a specified distance from any door to avoid any back wash of smoke into the building)
It's been banned here for quite a long time. I have no memory of ever flying on an aircraft where smoking was allowed and I'm in my mid 20s.
Smoking in any enclosed area apart from your own home's illegal here in Ireland for quite a few years now too (March 2004). It also extends to ALL work places, so technically it's illegal to smoke in the cab of a truck, even if you're the only occupant and have no other passengers as it's a work place.
Airlines banned smoking quite a long time before that though.
However, nowadays you can only smoke outside the airport (usually a specified distance from any door to avoid any back wash of smoke into the building)
gyrafoam
Well-known member
No 7Oh's on UA but could have been a 720. I am also thinking back in '68 SFO-PDX would have been UA.
Had to laugh at your experience with wanting to burn one on board. The narrow-bodied aircraft back in the day used the lav sink drains for some pressure relief. Just hold the spring-loaded drain open and it would exhaust that smoky air for you. Also, many cigaret smokers on board, helped mask the odor. But not from the party-wise F/A's!
Had to laugh at your experience with wanting to burn one on board. The narrow-bodied aircraft back in the day used the lav sink drains for some pressure relief. Just hold the spring-loaded drain open and it would exhaust that smoky air for you. Also, many cigaret smokers on board, helped mask the odor. But not from the party-wise F/A's!
dnastrau
Well-known member
Square windows: DeHavilland Comet
ALR2903: The square windowed British aircraft was the DeHavilland Comet - a very early jetliner. That was the one with the fuselage failures caused by the square windows. They redesigned the windows to be oval but they never regained popularity after that. See the active link at the bottom of the page for more information.
The Constellation was a triple-tailed prop-driven airliner built by Lockheed. Here is a link for more information on those:
http://www.conniesurvivors.com/
Andrew S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet
ALR2903: The square windowed British aircraft was the DeHavilland Comet - a very early jetliner. That was the one with the fuselage failures caused by the square windows. They redesigned the windows to be oval but they never regained popularity after that. See the active link at the bottom of the page for more information.
The Constellation was a triple-tailed prop-driven airliner built by Lockheed. Here is a link for more information on those:
http://www.conniesurvivors.com/
Andrew S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet
dnastrau
Well-known member
Lockheed Constellation link
Here is an active link to the Constellation site...
http://www.conniesurvivors.com/
Here is an active link to the Constellation site...
http://www.conniesurvivors.com/
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