Old car radio

[rp2813]

Hey Stan, thanks for the info on the #81 bulbs.  I'll look into getting a couple for the tail lights on the Jimmy.   It sounds like parts stores carry them from the experience you described.

 

I looked up a chart that shows the difference between a 63 and 81:

63:  7.0 volt, .63 amp, 3 CP, average life 1,000 hours

81:  6.5 volt, 1.02 amp, 6 CP, average life 500 hours.

 

I wonder if the 81 would be compatible with the existing wiring.  I also notice that with 12 volt bulbs, they are often rated for 14 volts, which is IIRC what's usually provided while the engine is running and generator is at maximum operation.  I don't know if a 6 volt system kicks up similarly while the engine and generator are running and whether that might blow out a #81.   I guess it couldn't hurt to try.  Seems to me that when all lights are on, it would be unlikely for more than 6 volts to be powering the bulbs.

 

I don't really need anything brighter for the front parking lamps.  They're almost never used, and the added-on turn signal lamps take the larger base single filament #1129, which seems bright enough.

[this post was last edited: 11/8/2017-14:00]

 

[stan]

Existing wiring

Can't see why it wouldn't be compatible ? It's a 6 volt bulb, and used in my case as turn signals, so that they won't be running continually. We'l see. Id really like to get brighter lights for the stop/tail lights,1158 in my case, but may have to live with it, unless I can maybe modify a flashlight reflector to the light assembly or some such mess as that ? LOL

 

[rp2813]

Stan, yeah, I think I was getting carried away with the wiring thing.  I had occasion this afternoon to talk with a guy who specializes in auto electrical work, including vintage.  He said he saw no problem with switching out a 63 for an 81.

 

For adding a reflective surface in your tail, parking and/or signal lamp assemblies, before you buy paint, try one of those shiny metallic pleated baking cups (for cupcakes).   I've read on an old car forum that they're quite effective.

 

[stan]

Humm

Certainly worth a try, can't hurt!
I might be getting carried away too, with my thoughts of cannibalizing flashlights! LOL

 

[supersuds]

Vaccum fuel pump

Stan, AC (and maybe others) made a double diaphragm fuel pump that helped provide a vacuum boost to the wipers when the car was pulling hard and the manifold vacuum was low. I never had a car with one, but I've heard it was a poor substitute for electric wipers, though better than nothing.

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

The vacuum gas pump combo can be identified by having two lines coming off it. One is a line from the lower part carrying gasoline to the carburetor, the other is a line from the upper part to the vacuum wiper circuit. It's supposed to add vacuum power at times when the intake manifold has low vacuum (such as low speed uphill open throttle). I'll have to take another look at how it's plumbed in.

When I rebuilt the motor in the 90's, I also rebuilt the gas/vac pump. The gas pump works fine, but I think the vacuum part may need some attention, since the wipers can slow down quite a bit uphill. I could probably service it without removing it, but to do anything one must jack up the passenger side the car, remove the front wheel, remove a splash shield, and remove a heat shield over the combo pump. I need to replace the exhaust manifold gasket anyway so I'll probably combine those two repairs when I get a round toit.
[this post was last edited: 11/10/2017-01:44]

 

[rp2813]

Stan,

I got a few #81 bulbs through NAPA.  They make quite a difference.

 

I took the attached picture after switching out only the left tail lamp.  This was in a shaded area during the day, and you can easily see the difference with the left lens (81 bulb) being fully lit while only the bottom half of the right lens (63 bulb) is lit.  These lamp assemblies hold two separate bulbs -- one for stop and the other for tail.  The tail bulbs are at the very bottom of the assembly and the stop lamps are pretty much right behind the round portion in the center of the lens.  This is why only the bottom half is lit on the right.

 

At night the entire lens will light up, even with a 63 bulb, but the 81 is twice as bright and brings the illumination up to more modern standards.   This should provide a major improvement on your Plymouth.

 

[ovrphil]

..interesting thread that I haven't finished reading, but ...I just inherited some old parts. One is an unused Motorola 2N176 Transistor with a date marking of 152 (1951, the 52nd week).

The link below was also helpful...and within a week, this thread appears.

Thanks for putting this out, Stan -cool old radio and new to my eyes. Tubes!

Transistor Museum Photo Gallery 2N176 Motorola Alloy Junction PNP Germanium Power Transistor

 

[sudsmaster]

One thing: Most LED lights (bare bones) will run on 6 volts just fine. I added some small blue lenses to the tail-lights on my 50. They fit perfectly into hole that the unlighted red reflector once resided. I added a white LED behind each one, and they glow dimly (back in the 90's, bare bones LED bulbs were relatively low power/lumens. I could probably revisit that and put in more powerful LED's today. But I kind of like the subtle purple glow they give at night.

 

[rp2813]

Rich, those blue dot lenses are popular among customizers.  I do tend to see them on GM cars more than other makes.  I don't know what their purpose is, but I do notice when I come up behind a car with blue dots, the lens appears to light up pink.

 

This is the best example I've found (on a '56 Chevy):

 

 

They make the type that would fit on my truck, but the only custom thing about that beast is its patina.  Plain red is fine.  I ordered glass lenses but they're way too dark.  Even with an 81 tail lamp bulb they'd be insufficient, and when stopping, only the round section in the center lights up.  I'm sticking with plastic, and with those the entire lens also serves as a reflector.

 

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, Ralph I know the blue dot lenses are very popular with hot rodders. They are also marginally illegal, since only law enforcement vehicles are supposed to display blue lights to the rear. While I've never had a cop pull me over in the Plymouth, it is a reason why I haven't been too anxious to add more illumination to the blue dots.

Come to think of it, I didn't use LED's behind the blue dots after all. Just 6 volt wheat bulbs. I've *thought* of going the LED route, but it would't be quite vintage, would it?

 

[stan]

Ralph

Glad the 81s worked for you.
Sounds like you have a different set up the me, and looks like you don't have turn signals on the back?
The 81s (formerly 63s) serve as turn signal for front and back on mine, and 1158s serve as tail/stop lights. The 81s will serve as running lights on the front (but haven't figured out why their not working..yet)
The women at NAPA looked to see if she could find a 6volt dual filiment bulb with more CP that would replace the 1158s but no luck.
So I'm going to try the cupcake liner next. I'll see if it helps. LOL

Rich.
Thank for the info about the gas pump. Mine has been changed to a 6 volt elecric fuel pump.
Have you pull your radio yet? Also I'm curious to know if you have replaced your front or rear windshield gasket on your 50.
Its something that I need to do on mine, and wondering what I might be getting myself into.

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

Havn't pulled the radio yet. It's on my list.

No I didn't replace the front/rear glass gaskets. Although they look easier than on most cars, since I'm guessing the interior fake wood molding actually holds the glass in place against the gasket (That is, squeezes the gasket over the glass). I suppose it's in the service manual.

About seven years ago when for some reason I was leaving the car exposed in the rain, I noticed the windshield was seeping water. A little silicone sparingly applied seemed to resolve that. But eventually it will need a new gasket, I'm sure.

All this discussion about bulbs makes me wonder what's in there. I remember getting 6 volt bulbs at Grand Auto or Kragen back in the 90's . Grand Auto is gone, now there's Auto Zone. No idea what numbers went where, but they all work pretty good.

 

[sudsmaster]

Oh, by the way. When I rebuilt the Plymouth radio, the tuning pointer fell off. I scrounged around and finally found that a little red tube from a spray can fit pretty well, so that's what's in there now.

 

[rp2813]

Stan, my truck has after-market turn signals.  The rear ones are mounted up near the top of the tailgate and the front are on the flat area behind the front bumper.   They use a single filament bulb, and I have 1129 types, which are rated at 21 CP, in all of them.  I think 21 CP is common for 6 volt stop and signal applications.

 

If you're using 81s for your turn signals, I can see how those would still be dim, particularly during the day.   The 1129 is more than three times brighter than an 81, and seven times brighter than a 63.

 

When I had the set of after market tail lamps on the truck, they took a dual filament bulb with the same specs as the 1158, but with offset posts on the side of the bulb (1154).  They lit up well.   I guess the purpose of offset posts is to prevent the reversal of stop and tail filaments.

 

 

 

[stan]

Thanks Ralph

So.. You think I should try the 1129 for my signals? Just got the 81s that are better than I had.. But if 1129 will show up better during the day I'll try em. My posts are not off set?
Rich, I have to change the gaskets cuz they both leak. It's the rear window that causes me to pause.. The molding is more comlpex, and the glass is curved.. If I broke it, it'd be much hard to find another, where as the fronts are just two flats.
Guess this thread should have been titled "pre 12 volt cars"
LOL

 

[rp2813]

Stan, it just occurred to me that if your signal assemblies use 81s, the 1129 won't fit.  The 1129 base is larger.  It seems odd to me though, that Plymouth would have thought 3 CP (63) was adequate for a turn signal. 

 

Per NAPA's site, front and rear signals on a '50 Plymouth use 1158s.  Do you have more than one socket behind front and rear lenses?  I don't know why there would be, as one 1158 should serve as stop/tail/signal/parking on the rear, and signal/parking up front.  I'm puzzled about how a 63 or 81 comes into play.  If you can, post a couple of pictures here of what's behind front and rear lenses.   Otherwise, maybe Rich can share what's on his car.

 

Also, on a chart I checked, I noticed that modern 12 volt dual filament stop and tail bulbs aren't any brighter than a 6 volt 1158.  It seems 3 CP is standard across both voltages for tail lamps, and 21 CP or thereabouts for stop/signal. 

[this post was last edited: 11/19/2017-00:19]

 

[norgeway]

Re. Vacuum wipers

I'm surprised it doesn't have electric wipers. I thought all. Chrysler products did after 48. My 53 Plymouth did and my 53. Imperial had 2 speed electrics

 

[sudsmaster]

Technically the Plymouth is a Chrysler "product", but as with other advances, electric wipers hadn't trickled down to the smallest of the Chrysler product lineup by 1950. Similar for automatic transmissions - the Plymouths came only with manual transmissions. Which probably was a good thing, since what Chrysler had in 1950 was a hybrid manual trans with a fluid coupling called "Fluid Drive". Also known as a slush-o-matic.

From Wikipedia:

"Fluid Drive is the trademarked name that Chrysler Corporation assigned to a transmission driveline combination which replaced the flywheel with a hydraulic coupling inserted in and performed the same function as a modern torque converter, only without torque multiplication. A conventional clutch and three- or four-speed manual transmission was installed behind the fluid coupling. Fluid drive was used in many military vehicles produced for the US Armed Forces during the Second World War. It was offered for civilian use from 1939 through 1953 in Chryslers, 1940 through 1953 in DeSotos, and from 1941 through 1954 in Dodge models; a semi-automatic system was optional from Chrysler and Desoto from 1941, and for Dodge from 1949"

 

[stan]

Ralph

Your right., Two sockets, two bulbs
Here's the front set up behind the lense.
This is the passenger side front. The bulb showing on the left is the turn signal. The socket just left of it is where the parking or running light is suppose to be, and will also except a bulb 63 or 81.
The back lights are similar, with bulb 63 or 81 used as turn signal, and a separate socket uses a 1158 as a tail/stop.
It's become obvious to me that this car did not come with turn signals from the factory..
As you can see, my problem is that who ever added the turn signals inserted the sockets from the back, this causes the bulb to be too deeply set, and makes it difficult to change bulbs, and also interferes with brightness. I've clipped the wire to one on back and tried to insert the socket from the front (as it should have been done) but won't fit unless I remove the lense assembly and use a drumrel to remove a little more material tword the back, And it appears that's what I'm going to have to do with all four.