Old car radio

[sudsmaster]

Turn signals? On a '50???

LOL.

I still have to stick my arm out the door. Amazing how many other drivers don't have a clue what I'm trying to tell them...

Well at least my '50 has brake lights...

 

[rp2813]

Stan,

In my research on bulbs I've come across some discussions about aftermarket turn signals.  Though I'm not clear on the reasoning, in order to integrate turn signal operation with an existing two-filament stop/tail bulb like an 1158, the signal activator needs to have seven wires.  I got lost trying to follow where all seven of them go.  If the activator has only four wires, separate dedicated signal bulbs are required front (perhaps) and rear.  I'm guessing you're dealing with a four wire system, just like I am on the GMC.

 

We've established that the added-on signal sockets front and rear can't accept a bulb that's brighter than 6 CP.  In order to allow for a brighter bulb like an 1129, you'll need to upgrade the rear signal sockets to the next larger size.  As long as you have to snip the wires, you might as well dremel the holes so they'll accept the larger socket for an 1129.

 

Up front, it seems like you have two options:

 

1)  Do the same thing as on the rear with the dremel and install new larger sockets for 1129s

 

OR if it's not too difficult,

 

2)  Snip the wires to both the signal and parking lamp sockets.  Change the parking sockets to dual filament types that accept 1158 bulbs, then connect signal lead and parking lead to the new socket (the added-on signal receptacle is no longer used).  If the wrong filaments light for signal and parking, remove the bulb, turn it 180 degrees and replace.  Both the 1158 and 1129 are available in amber, which would be easier for opposing traffic to notice.

 

I don't see any other solutions to correct what seems to be a botched installation (front and rear) by one of the car's previous owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sudsmaster]

In my collection of odds and ends for the '50, I have an aftermarket turn signal lever, that you're supposed to clamp to the steering column. But I gather that's the easiest part. Figuring out how to wire it all up would be a challenge. I see that six volt positive ground thermal flashers are available on eBay... But still, easier just to roll down the window and wave wildly, LOL. It's why in winter I always wear a coat while driving.

When I was very young we had an old pre-49 Plymouth. I remember imitating my dad by sticking my arm out the driver side rear seat window. And getting yelled at. Good times.

 

[rp2813]

More

I called a local lighting distributor and inquired about brighter bulbs.  I had found the 1133 type, but they're too big.  Satco shows on their site that they have 1133 in the normal size and shape, equivalent to an 1129 or 1158, but the distributor couldn't find that particular item number.  He suggested a 1680 bulb.  That one looks like what I need.  It's the same size as 1129, but is 32 CP.

 

Stan, in thinking about your tail lights, since the signal operates on a separate bulb and is at maximum only 6 CP, while you have your foot on the brake, the 21 CP of the 1158 renders the signal lamp invisible (since unlike factory systems, your signal function doesn't supersede the brake).  Seeing as how the brake lamp stays lit while the signal flashes, the only way you'd get any visibility would be to install 1680s back there for your signals.  As stated above, this would require changing the existing socket to the larger size and using the dremel to make the hole larger. 

 

I may order a 10-pack of 1680s.  If you decide to upgrade, I'll have a couple of spares that I could send to you.

http://www.bulbtown.com/1680_Miniature_Bulb_Ba15s_Base_p/1680.htm

 

[dartman]

As far as wiring the aftermarket turn signal thing lots of old jeeps and power wagons and other old trucks got them back in the day so there should be basic instructions on how to wire one up out there somewhere. I bet Google would find some somebody has archived. My buddy had one in his 55 dodge pick up that had a rubber wheel that ran on the edge of the steering wheel so it could self cancel like modern cars and it worked. My Jeep never had turn signals installed just the standard military black out light switch it left the factory with. It was cool because you really could run in total blackout mode and nothing lit up. I used to just turn on the brake lights during the day. My power wagon had a aftermarket setup installed and working when I got it. I did rip the setup out of a car at a yard but never put it in my jeep.
I spose somebody still sells them but not many cars that old running around now.

 

[stan]

Thanks Ralph

Let me know how the 1680s work for you. I'm glad to know there is a way (option 1) that I can Get some brightness. I suppose I could get or order a 1680 bulb and have NAPA hook me up with a corresponding socket, then cut my cloth to fit. I picked up a new universal socket that fits a 63 or 81 but would need some fine tuning to mount it, as the existing sockets have a different set up.
Rick
Nice 50! Why the two side mirrors on one door? Was thinking about ur radio and assumed that back when u installed, you used the trimming screw to fine tune. If u didn't you might try that to increase its volume. I believe it was recommended at the time a antenna was changed. (re trimmed)
Terry
My signals are not self cancelling. Anyone riding with me finds it hilarious.

 

[dartman]

Yep, the older cars didn't always get turn signals or self canceling, but by 50 I'd think most cars had simple signals. I only ever saw that one aftermarket upgrade turn signal system with self canceling on my buddies Dodge pickup. I bet it was much more expensive than others and the steering wheel hub had to have enough area and all that for the wheel to work. My Dart the tabs internally broke, one after the other, shortly after I got it so the cancel feature stopped working. I bought a kit to fix it but realized it was kinda cheap and I would have to cut wires so I never installed it. So when I used to drive it it worked just like your 50. I had a 50 coronet I never got running for a few years with a fuid drive semi auto transmission. It was a cool car and the body was solid and straight and I was given a ton of spare parts for it. Long gone now, I sold it for 200 nucks and the guy pulled one fenderand hopefully kept the parts and gave it to a wrecking yard where I found it again.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, I think Stan has an aftermarket turn signal control, and since those generally are not integrated into the steering mechanism, they generally won't self cancel.

For that matter, a previous owner of my '67 Chevy replaced the stock steering wheel with a smaller padded aftermarket steering wheel. In the process, the ability to cancel the turn signal was lost. I'd actually like to round up the correct steering wheel for that vehicle, along with replacing the turn signal mechanicals inside the hub. It's on my bucket list. Meanwhile, I've got kind of used to having to cancel the turn signal manually.

 

[dartman]

Well they made that body style for a few years as far as your pickup so I bet you can choose from and chevy pickup with a similar body and use the steering wheel from it.
My Dart most of the parts from 67 to 76 when they stopped making them can be interchange or at least modified to fit easily.
I got my big bolt disk brake upgrade parts I never installed from a 75 Dart 4 door I bought for 150 and drove home. The brake parts alone were worth more then I paid for the car. Luckily the car itself was god awful ugly so nobody would buy it from him even for 150, but I asked what brakes it had and if they worked so I went out and paid him cash with no argument.
All the parts will pretty much bolt in to my 69.

 

[sudsmaster]

It's not a pickup, it's a van. A pickup steering wheel might fit, I don't know. The vans were a bit different, albeit primarily, besides the obvious sheet metal difference, in the engine placement and front suspension. And the linkages.

At some point I also want to rewire the van completely. Someone put a Clifford alarm in it and it's like some creature from Star Trek, like a parasite on the nervous system. It's spliced into the original wiring harness in multiple places, and there are melted wires in there too. For some reason the wiring in the steering wheel area is especially strange.

 

[rp2813]

The 1680 bulbs are supposed to arrive on Monday.  Weather permitting, I may try them out if they don't arrive too late in the day, otherwise on Tuesday.  I'll report in with the results.

 

[dartman]

Well it should still be fairly common, just not as much as the pickup. I'm sure being a gm there should be tons of info and gm forums that can tell you what parts will interchange between the vans and pickups of similar vintage and body styles. I know for a Dart valiants, dusters, Darts from 67 to 76 will pretty much interchange most of the mechanical parts and some of the body stuff too depending on whether you want all the body lines and parts to match up. Think I saw a 74 Duster with a 68 Dart nose on it. It mostly matched up except he used the Duster bumper that screwed up the look of the nose as bumper didn't match the lower body lines.

 

[philr]

I never had a car old enough to have a tube radio. I have an AM wonderbar that I saved from a 1965 Electra 225 parts car that I got years ago. I wish there was an AM-FM version of the Buick Wonderbar because there's not much remaining to listen on the AM band anymore. I also have a non-signal seeking Delco AM-FM in my '65 Wildcat and an AM-FM multiplex in my '67 Riviera.

 

[rp2813]

The 1680 Bulbs Are In!

And there's a significant increase in brightness.  I replaced all four turn signal lamps and the brake lamps.  The turn signals light up better under daylight conditions than they did with the 1129 bulbs.  Likewise for the brake lamps.   I've attached a picture of the brake lamps that I took late this afternoon.  The lamp on the left still has the 1129.  The lamp on the right has a 1680, and it's a lot brighter.

 

Stan, I can see how the 1680s would give you much brighter rear signals than you have now, if you decide to install the larger sockets they require.  Up front you have the option to do the same thing, or install a dual-filament socket in place of the parking lamp socket and use 1154 or 1158.  The brighter filament in those should be fine for front signals.

 

 

 

 

 

[stan]

Ralph

Glad it worked out for you!
Hard to tell from the pic that there's much diffence ( between left and right) but sure looks brighter than your pic in reply #65
How much larger in diameter are the sockets than what you had before?

 

[rp2813]

Stan, in that picture further up, only the tail lamp bulbs are lit (the 81 on the left and 63 on the right).  The Stop Ray assemblies take separate bulbs for stop and tail, so I didn't need to change anything but the bulbs.  The 1680 base is the same size as the 1129, so it was a matter of removing the 1129 and replacing it with a 1680.  Now both tail assemblies are running a 1680 for stop/brake, and an 81 for tail lamp.  I think they're at least as bright as a 12-volt system would provide.  I'll remove a lens and take a picture so you can see what I've been working with.

 

I agree that the difference in the picture of the brake lamps isn't huge, but if you examine it, you'll see that the lamp on the right is so bright it looks pink, whereas the one on the left looks red and has dark areas surrounding the brighter center.  What appears to be a white area in the center of each lens is actually a very bright red, like a miniature "pull over" red spot light on a cop car.  Even that is brighter on the right side compared to the left.

 

This is likely the best it's going to get.  The only improvement I could make would be to add those silver cupcake things to the tail lamp assemblies, but the way they're put together, that would be easier said than done.  You'll see why once I've posted a picture here.

 

As for the size, I think you'll have to look up the 1129 or 1680 on line for the specs on the lamp base diameter.   It's a standard "S-8" size, which might be another term to use in your search.  I have a GE bulb list bookmarked, but that only provides the overall bulb width including the glass.

 

[twintubdexter]

PhilR...

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">I thought that dash in pic #1 looked familiar. 65' La Wildcat, French Canadian style.</span>

 

[philr]

Yes but unfortunately, mine isn’t a hardtop coupe like yours!

 

[rp2813]

Stan, here's a picture of how my GMC's tail lamp assemblies are configured.  The upper bulb is the 1680 stop lamp; the lower is the 81 tail lamp (the turn signals run on separate added-on assemblies with their own wiring system).

 

As you can see, trying to rig up a reflective surface behind that mess will require some strategy.

[this post was last edited: 11/30/2017-17:41]

 

[sudsmaster]

Stan,

 

Just saw  your question about the two mirrors on the driver's door.

 

Well, since I use hand signals, I've found my signaling arm blocks the standard fender mounted mirror. So I added the upper mirror so I could still see behind me when signalling. It actually helps a lot, IMHO.

 

I was rummaging around in the shop today and found a 10 pack of 1158's that I must have acquired back in the 90's. I guess I'll never run out of those. Since I don't have turn signals, they are fine for my purposes. I'll have to take a photo of the rear lights with the blue dot faintly glowing.

 

Still haven't pulled the radio. Between fighting off this hell of a cold (finally stopped coughing) and turkey day, been a bit too busy to fool with the car. When I retire...  As for the trim screw, I don't recall ever messing with that. I'll give it a try next time I have the radio out (when I rebuilt it, I had it sitting on the dining room table with a big spare six volt car battery to power it).

 

Although I kept the original tube radio, I also added a bank of six to 12 volt converter modules - each worth about 20 watts - four wired in parallel, for a total of 80 watt capacity - and installed a modern 12 volt radio/tape player under the far left side of the dash (only the driver can access it). It worked pretty well. I put a Sony CD changer in the glove compartment. But a couple of years ago the CD changer quit working, don't know why. I upgraded the radio/cassette player under the dash to a radio/CD player. I think it will take USB also, maybe even bluetooth. The 12 volt conversion works OK, but can't drive these modern radios at full power - the voltage starts to drop and the music clips. But at polite levels it works great. These cars have a good interior shape for sound: rounded. I put two 6x9's under the rear shelf, and two smaller speakers in the side kick panels up front. I also had to put in an on/off switch for the 12 volt converter bank, otherwise it puts a drain on the 6 volt battery and I'd get stranded after parking a while. The only problem there is that many car radios lose their minds when the power is disconnected, so there is that. I often have to reprogram all the stations when I power it up again. I also have a disconnect for the car battery, because it seems to last longer if completely disconnected from the car for longer periods of storage. Did something similar on my '67 Van, although of course that one didn't need any voltage conversion. The '50 Plymouth still has its tube radio operational for the occasional purist .

 

I remember taking the '50 down the main drags in Monterey during one of the Pebble Beach Concours weekends in the 90's, with CD's of big bands like Harry James blasting. People seemed to like it.