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I think the WSJ article quoted above makes it clear enough: Wal-Mart wanted exclusivity and paid up for it.

Meanwhile Henkel gets guaranteed shelf space at the country's strongest retailer without having to fight tooth and nail. Win-win.
 
Logixx

was kind enough to send me this link about Walmart in Germany. Seems like they hit the shores thinking they would operate just like in the the USA and it didn't work out too well for a variety of reasons not the least of which was to have an USA citizen at the head - talk about clueless when it comes to German culture and consumer habits. This points out the necessity to do the due diligence required to know how to operate in the environment you are in, which is one of the reasons why I think Henkel decided to have Oba's and such in the formulas that are sold here, and to suggest using LCB for stains when using the Liquid detergent, and why the instructions direct people to use line 1 or line 2 instead of giving dosing measurements by load size, soil level and water hardness like they do in Germany. All of these things I mentioned above are common to the USA laundry practice and so that is what you see in the Henkel product sold to us. Doesn't guarantee success but at least they are starting out using the same parameters that the average USA consumer uses.

 
I did a load of white underwear and mostly grey athletic socks today and thought I would post some information about what happened. I used 2 tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon of the Persil Perls detergent. I think this is something like 34 mls. I probably didn’t need the extra teaspoon but I am still experimenting. I used a wash temperature of 120F, 1 wash 2 rinses, spins in between each, final spin. I do not use any other additives to my loads. I just used the detergent which is what I do with Persil from Germany or Miele detergents. My machine instructs me not to use LCB so I haven't used that in a washer since 2003.

Pic 1 This is a shot of the wash while it was tumbling. You can see some suds running down the window.

Pic 2 This is the wash after 30 minutes.

Pic 3 this is the wash after 50 minutes.

Pic 4 This is a sample of the wash water after it was pumped out. My washer drains into the laundry sink next to it so I can see and capture the water.

Pic 5 This is the water in the first rinse

Pic 6 this is the last rinse water plus a bit of Suavitel Island Splash FS.

Pic 7 a sample of the finished load. I have more pictures of this but I mean - its just shots of tighty whitey underwear.

So everything finished nice, bright and clean using this dose of detergent. I think folks with larger machines, or machines that use more water in the wash like top loaders might need to use more or start with the recommended amount , but the best thing to do is experiment and find the least amount that works for the machine and load type you have.

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Greys & Whites...

Word of advice, they don't mix well. Overtime, the grey fabric dye will leach onto your whites, causing this, nasty dingy hue. You can prevent/fix this by using Chlorine Bleach, as it'll remove the extra dye.

 

But still, be careful in mixing color clothing with whites. :-)

 

(If I was mixing, I'd do Blue Clothing, or Blue Socks. Those won't have much of a *noticeable* effect ;)

[this post was last edited: 3/22/2015-18:24]
 
Walmart

For what it's worth, 60% of americans, step foot in a Walmart store every single month. It's a necessary evil. 

 

Walmart... despite might not being well liked. Does have the largest distribution system in the country, and just getting one product into every supercenter can make a company. One has to remember that. 

 

If I was going to launch a product, with just one company, I'd choose Walmart anyday over Target. And this is coming from a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Target Team Member</span>. You're just going to have a larger customer base, and... more exposure to your brand. 

 

Maybe. I just live in a nicer area. But... I've never seen anyone panhandling near our Walmart. I kinda think it's a privilege to shop there. Our store is very nice and clean, and well laid out. And, as long as you're not shopping on a Weekend, it's never hectic. 

 

 

<hr />
 

 

And... 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">That's another thing. Guys. Grocery Shop during the week. Saturdays & Fridays, are the WORST time to go grocery shopping. </span>

 

Your walking in on the last day of a sale typically (for one)... so anything good, is typically gone. And second,  I'd say at least 50% of a supermarkets weekly volume sales, are conducted on Saturday. It's the worst time to shop.

 

 
 
Mich

Thanks for mentioning the greys with whites. These are grey socks and the only reason I have them in this load is because I wear them around the house without shoes and so they tend to pick up dirt off of the wood floors. One thing about having my washer drain into the sink is that I get to see the colors in the water as it is pumped out and am able to see what is fading and so forth. I also get to see what the actual rinse water looks like after every rinse. So far I think these socks are pretty color fast and I have not noticed any greying of the whites. Been washing these together for the last 4 years. But I do have other greys that definitely must be done separately and other than these socks nothing get washed with whites. I buy a lot of cotton clothes and some are that are designed to slowly fade so for those I have to be very careful not to mix any different colors together.

Thanks for the suggestion and I will def keep it in mind! Hmm... maybe I will stop washing these socks with the white underwear and see what happens.

Walmart -- I haven't seen panhandlers there, and for the most part my Walmart is very clean. A few years ago it was expanded into a Super Center(I think that's what you call it) and it now has a wide selection of food and everything else. One big reason I check it out is because they have a wider selection of detergents and fabric softeners than other stores I shop and they are selling it at a cheaper price. I find that the cashiers are very friendly too, so over all I don't have any problems with the people that work there.
 
I live in an upscale area, but very near to a military base, where many of the dependents come from rural areas where Walmart is often the only game in town. Consequently, there is very high brand loyalty in this consumer group. On the rare occasion when I set foot in the store (last time about eight years ago; I've placed an online order every 2-3 years), the aisles are so narrow that two people cannot walk side by side while shopping. One wonders how they pass fire inspection.

In particular, I dread check out lines at Walmart. I've never gotten out in under 30 minutes, despite the line not appearing to be inordinately long, because nearly everyone ahead of me has a check-out issue: card declined, argument over a 30 cents off coupon, etc.

Before the K-Mart here closed down, it used to be my favorite place for variety shopping. Everything under one roof, reasonable prices (if not the lowest in town), and best of all, everyone's debit or credit card worked, so that check out was quick and efficient. I used to be kidded for "shopping with all the Mexicans", but the Mexican families I saw there were hard-working, with both parents in work uniforms and two or three very tightly controlled, well-scrubbed kids. Maybe I wouldn't want to wear the clothes they were buying, but K-Mart isn't a 99-cent store and for these families it was a matter of pride to be able to buy new clothes and stay within their budget.

In contrast, what I"d see at Walmart were women with curlers in their hair allowing their kids to run loose through the store, as if it were their own personal playground. Their dialects suggested to me that most likely they lived on base and not in town, and were not long=time residents here. I understand if dad is overseas for a six month tour, mom has all the disciplinary responsibility, but at least at Walmart the system seemed to break down.

Another reason I avoid Walmart was that I knew one of the Walton children (now deceased) personally, and he left me underwhelmed both by his intellect and his concern for others less economically fortunate. He was one of major backers of a 1993 California ballot initiative to create school vouchers for parents of kids in private schools. I could see this if there was means-testing, but why a billionaire would need tuition assistance for his kids' schooling was beyond me (the initiative failed by a wide margin). For several year we attended the same Xmas Eve gathering and I told him that year that I voted "no" as did all of my friends and all of my relatives, because the initiative seemed calculated to destroy the public school system.

I broke down and ordered a package of Persil Power-Pearls last night online, so I can give it a try like some of you have, but I refuse to set foot in the store. The $4.97 shipping/handling charge is more than worth the savings of my time, given that it is a 15-20 minute drive for me and takes 30 minutes to navigate the check-out line. (in the early 2000s there were times when every single credit card of people ahead of me in line was declined).
 
OMG! Can I come out of the closet...........

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">.....about using a Flipfold?</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">Yes I saw it there on a counter in one of these photos!!!!  So I'm not the only one that hides them away so folks won't think I'm nuts??!!!  I love mine!  I have two.  One up front by the Washer and Dryer and another back in the bedroom because I'm too lazy to walk all the way up front.  My other half thinks I'm nuts using that thing, but he sure likes the way his clothes get folded (he's banned from the washer when some of his stupid gym socks with black toes and heels ruined a load of whites)!</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I have been following this thread on Persil because I used to use it exclsively.  I had the two forumulations.  One for whites and one for colors and loved them both.  About five years ago though I developed this strange allergy to Essential Oils and other fragrances.  So I had to quit using all kinds scented products that I really liked. </span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I have been seening the Persil ads on TV the past few weeks and was as surprised as many of you to see it being sold here.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">The closest I've found to the Persil is the Sears brand detergent with OXY clean.  I know we have discussed this product before and not all were that taken with it but I have been happy with it as it doesn't seem to irritate my skin as it is not highly scented.</span>
 
That would be little ol' me with the Flip-n-Fold. I love mine and I use it every laundry day. Granted it takes alittle more time but its worth it in neatness. I remember the episode of The Big Bang Theory where Sheldon was in the laundry room using his Flip-n-Fold...Scott looked at me with this grin and said see...your like Sheldon! LOL
 
At Wal-mart yesterday

they had Persil sensitive skin for $11.99

I already had some of the Powder and liquid so I passed

I guess I am a little underwhelmed, It's a premium detergent, commanding a premium price, but I don't see it any better or worse than Tide.

I may keep these in the drawer under the washer, but Tide will still be my main detergent.
 
I tried the Persil Power-Perls Intense Fresh powder the other day on a load of bath sheets.

 

They came out clean enough, but rather on the stiff/scratchy side. Previously I've been using a variety of liquid detergents, and the towels usually come out much softer than with the Persil powder. So it's back to the liquid stash for bath towels.

 

Next I'll try a load of colors (shirts, slacks, etc.) that I normally launder with Sears Ultra boosted with STPP.

 
 
Hi Guys,

Curiosity got the better of me and I caved in and ordered some Power Pearls Intense Fresh and the Original Liquid to be shipped to Australia (so much more expensive than it has been previously for some reason).

I love them both so far but did have to remove the silly pour spout from the powder because its just impractical.

Love the scent of both, washed some sheets in the pearls and they are just divine after a windy line dry. Shirts in the liquid and smell wonderful and fresh. All food stains gone even in a cool wash. Very happy with them.

Matt
 
I said before, will repeat now
I think persil got really overrated to unthinkable levels in the US, say because now there's the fashion of Europe and european stuff is "trendy" so also because of the evident Europeization of America plan by the govs, say because Miele pumped it like they pumped their machines, Germans are good sellers also, they can sell well a story like the italians always do...yes, I mean it's not that is crap, but on both sides of the pond now the detergent market is pretty much mature, as far as I'm concerned there're detergents that will do the exact same job and even better than Persil, both here that in the US, of course that's my opinion and finding about, I buy Dixan sometimes but even though I don't like P&G moves about marketing etc.. I gotta say Dash, EU Ariel, mexican Ariel and US Tide beat Dixan always...but so does other powders like italian Sole (dixan is what is henkel Persil in Italy- same exact thing as German one)....
I can find cheaper powders giving me the same and also better results for half the cost of it....
Really it's not that great for me...
 
Yes, we understand your point.

However the United States is *not* Europe and until *very* recently good quality detergents for "HE" or even just front loading washing machines have been scarce.

P&G's first offering of Tide HE was a disaster. Unless carefully dosed it created just as much froth and was hard to rinse as normal Tide.

Where Miele and even AEG (via Canada) were concerned you are talking about washing programs vastly different than anything else on the US market at that time.

American detergents even IIRC Tide "HE" are/were designed for high dilution (top loading washing machines) with short cycles (wash about 10 to 18 minutes), and not the long often profile washes of European machines.

I like many have gotten very good results using older American detergents (especially those loaded with phosphates), but lately have noticed results in both the Miele and Lavamat are better with European detergents.

Fact is only detergents from Europe (older Persil 59 and the various Persil, Dato, Super Croix, OMO, etc...) are the only detergents I use in the Lavamat. Quite honestly am moving towards that with the older Miele as well. Just find results are consistently great with less issues of froth and difficulty rinsing.

Of the recent offerings from Tide both the Free and Gentle and the now defunct Coldwater Free are actually pretty good liquid detergents. If dosed correctly have little issues with foaming and stain/soil removal are excellent. However the liquid/gel offerings from Europe still have slight edge in terms of overall performance.

Front loading washing machines in the USA tended or still do have rather short cycles than say many European machines. Laundromat washers in particular still do not run very long cycles. This means you could get away with typical American detergents due to lack of worries about potency giving out over long wash times.
 
Launderess...dear..
Look that I am well aware that Europe is not the United states, but I think I can speak about detergents since I buy lots of american detergents and I used and tried pretty much all you can find on the average US market, some South American and european...
I am well aware of the early HE low foam products and how they do in A FL..remember I used many and currently have one in my "petit-collection"...
High diluition may be a matter...but as far as I'm concerned is not really that Big to justify the success Persil have now that anyway most HE products seems to do great in any machine...
I could have gotten it if the insertion of persil on market would have happened long ago when Low foam/front loader powders were re-gearing up..but not now..well I mean..I don't get the big deal about it.
The matter of the "profile" of a wash and detergents may have had more importance in the now-long-gone times we didn't have Taed and percarbonate, oxygen activators etc were not common but only plain perborate, but today's detergents pretty much all got TAED and or anyway oxygen bleach activators that provides an effective bleaching already in warm-medium water.
European front loaders typically had longer wash cycles because in many european countries they have to heat their own water and were meant to do that anyway vs what is an historical Hot fill in the US.
Initially in the past infact you gotta had an initial phase where enzymes and surfactans worked and as the wash proceeded oxy bleach was engaged, that meant further longer wash times needed as bleaching action was engaged later in the wash portion as the water reached proper hotness...

Of course as you say American detergents tended and so do now to do all at once, but so does european detergents now from decades, especially recently that are always more developped to deliver same in further lower temperatures, now even "cool" 15-20 degrees as they state on the packages...
In the US there are also variations including an increased amount of bleach which counterbalance the fact that many low end cheap powders doesn't by default in the US, but is kind of same here where the percarbonate in low end powders is so little or so bad quality not to even make a difference, but the difference in the US is that these low end stuff typically have a slightly more expensive but still cheap variation with bleach, here not.... i find it a more intelligent approach.
I believe the cheap basic formula of these low end ones doesn't as you can always add the kind of bleach (LCB, oxy or whatevr) action you prefer in any case, I believe that is because in the US there might the chance that some families doesn't have the possibility to use water hot enough to really get an oxy bleaches working resulting in a mere waste and an increase of price that would result in losing a slice of market, these folks I mentioned gotta use LCB as opposed to Europe where as said all of the machines typically will never have the incapability to get the water hot enough to get an oxy bleach do it's job, even though many do use LCB the same.
Another curious thing is that this bleach/ultra white/oxy action whatever you call it tendence to put an increased bleach amount is being exported over here, where you now have many detergents in ultra white/ultra bleach/with vanish etc versions..
Tide was among the first with this attitude of increased bleach, even though the original versions and pretty much most P&G offerings and in general all the TOL P&G or not powder stuff contains percarbonate and or activators the same by default, just less of them vs the W/bleach, both versions of Tide with bleach or original are indeed very good, the original variation of Tide is already better than persil in my opinion.
But again so is mexican ariel or Gain which for half the cost just do the very same of persil IMO, hence why I say the detergents are mature pretty much everyhwere and can't quite get all this craze about Persil.
But I agree that initially persil may have gotten the good fame it did also because it was designed for a front loader while in the US these kind of products were not around since alot of times and they were just kind of breaking-in ..I just question why is it still so "Big deal" now and why the persil...
A choice more is anyway always welcome though..don't you agree?

[this post was last edited: 3/26/2015-08:58]
 
Unlike Europe where TAED bleach activators have become generic, P&G holds and has locked down all patents for such oxygen bleaching systems (based on NBOS)in the USA. Thus the only products you see with activated bleaching technology are Tide other detergents from P&G such as Gain that have received trickle down technology.

P&G also has released a plethora of activated oxygen bleach additives (Tide here, Ariel across the pond).

All my washing machines drain into sink so am able to judge the quality of rinse water. Modern P&G powdered detergents leave a chalky residue on the side of the sink, Persil does not. Cheer powder actually discolored the metal tub of my Hoover Twin Tub.

Persil powder and mega-perls are far more forgiving in terms of rinsing if over dosed than Tide.

Cannot think of one "low" or "cheap" powdered detergent in the USA that contains oxygen bleach. Biz is sold as either a bleach or laundry pre-soak/stain remover depending upon whatever the new owners seem to prefer. In any event it is no longer made by P&G so does not contain their activated bleaching system.

In my area of NYC there is only one powder left on store shelves, Tide, and even that can be hard to find. Balance of the space has given over to liquids or pod format detergents. Thus do not know where you are finding these "cheap" powders, and cannot therefore comment.

My Lavamat is a cold fill only machine and thus by nature will do a "profile wash" if temps above "cold" are selected. It will go further if one selects "stain" option. The cycles are long and while they can be shortened even then the shortest cotton/linen/normal runs about 80mins. Allowing the machine to fill with warm or even hot water confuses the thing as it messes with the set heating parameters.

Tide with bleach powder on its own never shifted certain stains the way Persil or even other European detergents in my stash can with ease. Have had good results with using Tide cold-water liquid in a soaking bath over night, and long wash cycles in either the Miele or Lavamat.

Will put my stash of both vintage and modern detergents up against yours or anyone else's any day of the week. Increasingly for my money and time am coming round to preferring a "one step solution". That is add one product, start machine and that is that.
 
I don't know about that trickle down tecnology, but I can tell for sure Gain, Tide and Ariel as for others washed better than Dixan- Persil do..and you could see and feel the good bleaching action, Tide and mexican Ariel shifted stains Dixan always have hard times to deal with giving better whites to me.
Findings...
I get some chalky resiudes on the sink using Dixan and Persil indeed...my machines also drains in the sink and agree there's not better judge than ourselves for that..what I find leaving more resiudes though is Lever's British persil, even though it less foaming it leaves other residues.
P&G also released lots of bleaches additives here, in the past as well that keeps being sold, we recall Ace that was on since the early 90s and of course as every where else the are now the additves of the same brands of detergents Ariel or Dash upon the country.
Over here each manufacturer company came up with an additive at some Point we talk of 90s as well, RB had vanish, Henkel had Sil, Bolton Manitoba had Omino Bianco, p&G Ace etc..
Low-end/cheap detergents in the US who contains oxy stuff in original versions are many store brands, Oxydol, The lever surf before being sold did, Ariel (cheap indeed)...to name few... so there are..then there are always the versions with bleach, but as I stated it's true that on general note and speaking generally and largely cheap/BOL ones in the US doesn't typically contain bleach in their original/clasic/basic versions, and I suppose it's for the reasons I mentioned, which is what I defined a more intelligent approach.
I don't certainly shop in NY even because the prices over there are sort of crazy vs elsewhere in the US, I agree that the choice in NYC stores and supermarkets is beyond pitiful for what concerns the powders, but also for liquids it's not that "nice" but there are places around US where powders are common to be sold, I've read in another thread you are snobby regarding shopping at walmart...well that's a place where you can find plenty of powders...

"Will put my stash of both vintage and modern detergents up against yours or anyone else's any day of the week. Increasingly for my money and time am coming round to preferring a "one step solution". That is add one product, start machine and that is that. "
I don't quite get what you mean with this launderess, could you please explain better?
[this post was last edited: 3/26/2015-11:04]
 
Walmart: Many other Americans do not like that place for various reasons having nothing to do with who or whom shops there; more like the Walton family and how they run their business. But we aren't on that right now.

Trickle down: P&G developed and holds all patents for activated oxygen bleaching systems for the USA market using NBOS. You can see them listed on the sides of P&G detergents/bleaches by looking up the patent numbers listed.

P&G began with Biz which was originally a pre-soak. They then transferred the technology to Oxydol. That product went from a soap to detergent with oxygen bleach to activated oxygen bleach. Finally P&G developed Tide with Bleach when they perfected their oxygen bleaching system.

As P&G's premier powdered detergent all innovations first go to TWB and at one time remained. Now P&G has allowed some but no all of that technology to "trickle down" to Gain powder with bleach, Tide Stain Release powder, Tide Stain Boost/Vivid Pods and so forth.

Because TWB cleaned so well and could be used as a pre-wash or pre-soak sales of Biz dropped and it soon became almost an after thought brand. Have a huge stash of older Biz "bleach" and you really do not need to use it with a detergent as it contains everything needed on its own including enzymes. Oxydol also became a "forgotten" brand over shadowed by TWB. Both have now been sold off.

As stated previously in this forum the reason P&G, Unilever and so forth are developing these bleach/enzyme additives has to do with the rise of liquid or gel detergents over powders. Liquid detergents cannot/do not contain oxygen bleaching systems. Some do not contain complex enzyme cocktails either. Most every consumer testing group on both sides of the pond note liquid/gel detergents do not whiten or remove all marks as well as powdered detergents with bleach.

What to do? Sell a stand alone product that replaces what is missing; oxygen bleach, an activator, and perhaps some alkaline agent.

This is what one means by an "one step solution". With Persil powder or a few other European detergents I don't have to add anything else. Just put the powder in dispenser or pod in drum, close door, start machine and walk away.

Persil, Ariel and a few other European powdered detergents in my stash will deal with all manner of marks and soil on laundry *by themselves*. I don't have to add extra oxygen bleach or anything else.
 
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