Poor Speed Queen "HomeStyle" Line

[launderess]

Latest CR issue on washers and dryers is out and the SQ front loader came in dead LAST amoung all washers, even behind Roper.

Apparently CR marked the unit down for short cycle times, washing results, and some other things. Will post more once have a chance to read my entire issue/article.

SQ dryers didnt' fare much better either. Alliance Laundry Systems had better pull their socks up and get on the ball.

Launderess

 

[westytoploader]

I noticed that as well as its low score of 31, probably for no other reason than the fact that CR detests short cycles. What's interesting, though, is that they didn't test the new Speed Queen top-loader...maybe they realized that it had actually had some potential.

CR has become more and more "anti-conventional-TL" lately, but it's not like I take their ratings seriously anymore anyway. A lot has changed in the 7, almost 8 years that I've held a subscription (since age 10, starting with the August 1998 issue), that's for sure!

 

[varenovator]

Maybe SQ deserved it

I was seriously considering the SQ model last month. The salespeople I spoke with were very knowledgeble - maybe too knowledgable! The consistent story I got was that the SQ's really are basically commercial machines with minor changes for the consumer market. Plusses are that they are built like a truck and should be reliable. The downsides were the cycle times - they really are tuned to the laundromat market, where time is money, and shorter cycles mean more loads per day and more $$$. Especially in a high efficiency FL, the lower water usage puts a premium on getting the washing process right, and you just can't do it in 9 minutes. As I recall, there weren't many cycle choices, so even if 'normal' wasn't effective, the longest cycle was still pretty short. That's great if you don't care what the results are. The other drawback to the laundromat engineering were also nailed by CR - noise! And both the washer and dryer lack some of the basic things that consumers expect - onboard heaters for the washer (low water usage puts a premium on getting the temp right) and moisture sensors for the dryer.

 

[alr2903]

guess it depends.................

On what you really wash the SQ FL, IMHO has nice looks, I very seldom have Heavily soiled laundry. I hope the SQ FL, is still around when our Amana TL finally gives out. Off subject but i heard the Canadian teachers union is one of the top stock holders in Alliance is this true? alr2903.

 

[the7]

varenovator
As stated in SQ website, SQ has one model with internal heater.

 

[hibeta]

Noise is certainly NOT an issue with the fl SQ washer or dryer. In fact, they are extremely quiet...much quieter than the tl washer/dryer set that they replaced. I haven't seen the CR report yet, but these are very quiet regardless of other poster's comments.

 

[varenovator]

CR hammered the SQ dryer for its noise level (and no moisture sensor)
You're right, they do have a model with an internal heater, but it's the one with the rear controls; we were planning on using pedestals, which would have made reaching the controls difficult, so we never really considered it.

And yes, the Ontario Teachers pension fund is a major stockholder of Alliance Laundry. They've gone through a couple of leveraged buyouts over the years.

 

[frigilux]

I'm willing to bet the farm that all SQ needs to do is to at LEAST double the 9-minute washing time and their score will skyrocket into competitive territory.

I don't believe CR has anything against short cycles; in fact they generally point out which dishwashers clean well without taking 2-1/2 hours. But if the clothes don't come out clean, well that's the bottom line, isn't it? Can you imagine a Mom of several dirt-and stain-magnets getting a FL SQ and having clothes come out unclean? I'd be pissed.

 

[jimmyb]

I don't care what CR says

I have had the Speed Queen ATS90 washer for just under a year and a dryer as well and would not trade them for the world. I think people today just want to throw clothes in a machine and expect perfection. My laundry is never heavily soiled and I do pretreat stains. Yes the cycle is shorter but my clothes are just as clean as everyone elses. And yes the machines do make a little noise but no more than many of the other machines that are on the market.

So nanny nanny boo boo to CR!

 

[frigilux]

jimmyb-- No one has wanted to see SQ return to the home market more than me. I've always been a big fan. I especially admire them for not jumping on the syper-fast agitation bandwagon in the TL'ers. As for noise and cleaning issues, CR judges every machine against the best-performing machine they've tested; Currently, that would be the Neptune TL (tops in cleaning) and the Miele FL'er (quietest). Again, all SQ has to do is add the option for a much longer wash (at least 18 mins.) and even people who wash heavily soiled loads (like me) and who don't pretreat (like me) will get clean clothes from their SQ, too!

 

[whirlcool]

I imagine with the glued on front control panel and microchip circuits they could probably offer an upgrade kit pretty cheaply. All it would take is a reprogramed chip replacement and a new control panel to get more wash time.

 

[toggleswitch]

I cant take CR seriously.

They once downgraded a (T/L) washer years ago because the washer did not have a recessed lip around the top and any water on it would drip to the floor. By that logic older Maytags would be bad.

They also hated Euro DW-ers because of excessive cycle times and non self-cleaning food filters. Now they have certainly changed their tune.

When I sold appliances for Sears part-time after a full-time day on the accounting job, the BEST customers to F--- with were the ones with Consumer Report's under their arms. They usually had the least amount of sense of all.

Then there was the time the customer had a 23.50 inch wide space and wanted a 24.00 inch machine. I would simply put all that in the *comments* section of the invoice. Delivery knew me personally and would call to thank me for making their jobs easier.

But all that is another story, for another thread!

 

[norgeman]

Than you Toggles

I am glad that someone else said that about CR. They are supposed to be unbiased (not sure of spelling) but I have found in like the last 20 years that they have become very biased in favor of Whirlpool or Kenmore and how great they were supposed to be, and that is just not the case as a friend of mine has had two Kenmores and one Whirlpool and has hated all three as she says that they don't clean. She had a used Frigidaire and it washed better than any of the W/K's. When me and my wife had our Montgomery Wards/Norge washer we had her look at it when we were doing laundry and it pulled the clothes down better than her brand new Kenmore. Our Norge/Montgomery Wards was a far better washer than Kenmore or Whirlpool, but CR rated Kenmore and Whirlpool higher.

http://[email protected]

 

[tolivac]

Read the article of the CU washer reviews-strange they didn't test any of the SQ TL washers??I don't go by CU reviews on products either.The vacuum cleaner reviews in the Oct 2005 issue were about the same as the ones in the March 2006 issue-except a few extra models and comments on the "robot" vacuums.The vac delears in my area laugh at the CU vac tests.It is well known that Hoover Maytag gives CU very generous yearly donations--whose your daddy?After the transfer of Maytag to WP-then see how the CU reviews go.

 

[user 12105]

norgeman

Maybe your friend was doing something wrong.....how can a washer not clean? My experience with WP/KM has been just the opposite. These machines clean very well in my experience.

As far as circulation goes, WP/KM washers i have/had .."rollover" has always been consistent in these machines.

Washer for washer, a WP/KM machine will circulate clothes FAR better than a Norge ever can. My mom had a Norge in the 70's and early 80's, it just could not rollover full loads well at all. Though it cleaned well.

We all have our personal preferences. I find WP/KM washers to be very good machines overall. I would not hesitate for a second to recommend one of their laundry products.

 

[toggleswitch]

Give me some sugar baby!

It is well known that Hoover Maytag gives CU very generous yearly donations--whose your daddy?

Said: CR does not accept advertising! Silly silly me I thought there were legit, but flakey and random.

AHA, Eureka! This certainly makes it all a bit clearer, eh?

 

[angus]

Agiflow - you hit the nail on the head. A Norge, by its design would not have "roll over". The straight vane agitators are not designed to roll clothes. So the comparison between a straight vane and the dreadful WP "corkscrew" is apples to oranges. If we look at history, Norge Timelines and their successors, as well as late 60's and later GE filter flo's with the straight vanes always topped CU's ratings for washing performance. Conversely, KM's with the Roto-Swirl agitator, while providing roll over usually didn't fare as well in washing performance.

I guess my conclusion is that roll over alone doesn't automatically mean superior washing performance. So I am still uncertain why many folks are tied only to good roll over. Give me a nice straight vane GE or the wavy vane Speed Queen - at least my laundry will last longer......

 

[user 12105]

angus

Angus i agree about straight vane agitators in general. Ramp agitators are ok, but a straight vane will handle a larger load more effectively. Of course older Norge and Mayag designs prove rollover is not needed to clean well.

 

[tgodel]

Consumers Union has become way, way out of touch in the last five years. It's been said before, it will be said again, but I just don't take Consumer Reports very seriously any more.

--Trip

 

[jetcone]

I have to agree with Toggle on this one

I have never found CR to be totally open to new ways of washing and fairly weighted testing results!!

I have had the commercial SQ Horizon FL in my tenants unit for 6 years now. It is installed on the third floor of my house. If any machine was a problem it would be unbearable on the top floor. I hardly know when they are doing laundry and they do ALOT of laundry. I have to empty that coin box every 6 mos. they do so much.
Also they are very picky about clean clothes and they stuff the thing full and never complain about how clean the items are. You can bet there was WEEKLY cursing when I had the Staber 1000 dud up there, she HATED that machine along with me!
In my experience it has been an outstanding performer.

 

[frontloadfan]

Consumer Reports Need Improvement

Consumer Reports sure could use some improvement. What they really lack is detailed information that someone looking for a washing machine needs. As far as I can tell they don't provide the below:

specific size (they give hints but not specific volume)
specific number of cycles
whether machines have internal heaters
Top spin speeds
Does machine offer soak function/deep rinse?

In years past they did a better job of alerting you that machines were almost identical (back when the 3.1 Frigidaire front loader was branded under three different brands). No reference to the close relationship between the top Kenmore and Whirlpool front loaders. I mean think how great it would be to say they are both made by Whirlpool and the significant differences are ---. Especially funny was the ratings for the Siemans and Bosch front loaders. They make the same general comments for both machines and the pictures show the machines to be identical, but no reference is made to the fact that they are basically the same machine. You would have thought it would have occured to the testers, duh, isn't this the same machine we just tested?? If there are any differences, it would be nice for them to be pointed out.

Also what would be good would be to explore "families" of machines. For instance, to quicky sum up the difference between the $1000 whirlpool front loader and the $1300. In a few words, what are you getting for the extra money? The chart shows that the $1300 whirlpool is given more points, but they don't make mention to the fact the more expensive machine has higher spin speed, more cycles and an internal heater.

 

[the7]

jetcone,
Like to know the model no of your commercial SQ Horizon FL. Is it more robust than the home style ones?

 

[varenovator]

CR ignores real world issues

Where in CR's tests are any mention of vibration??? Consumers have had issues with this for years - it's one of the most important decision point for many. But CR has zero in their test process. Their criteria hasn't changed despite the growing use of second floor laundry rooms. I agree, they are way behind the times. They also seem to be behind in their testing schedule - how many times have you read ratings where there are models that CR flags as already discontinued? Or even models not flagged, you discover they are discontinued anyway?

 

[frigilux]

While I still defend CR, I also have questions about their reporting. Why, for instance, did it take 2 years of testing the Calypso before there was a mention of how much linting/tangling was happening?

Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I re-read the testing results of the SQ FL'er. Everything looked pretty good except for the washing score.

I can't believe that with all the FL'ers out there, no one at SQ thought "Gee, maybe we should offer the option of a longer wash." Sorry, but I think it's completely indefensible of them to charge $1400 for a machine that doesn't clean well, not because of inherent design flaws, but because no one thought to add 15 minutes to a wash cycle.

You wouldn't HAVE to opt for a longer wash---in fact, I wash a lot of lightly soiled loads on my Frigidaire's 30-minute QUICK cycle, which has a 6 minute wash and only 2 rinses, with great results. But I'd hate to see what one of my uber-stained loads of kitchen towels, etc. would look when they emerged from that cycle. And there ain't NO WAY I'm going to pretreat every stain on every towel, bar mop, dish rag, chef's apron, napkin and tablecloth. I'd use a whole container of pretreater for every load! I pretreat NOTHING.

I use a medium dose of powdered Tide CW, 1/3 cup of chlorine bleach, a bit of Downy to break down the suds in the last rinse, and set the cycle for the longest (18-minute) wash, using temp-controlled 65-degree water. No extra rinses or pre-wash/soak cycles. Occasionally, if the load is a Bob Load, I'll reset the machine and add an extra 10 minutes of wash time. Perfectly clean results. All stains removed, clothes rinsed well.

One should expect nothing less from a washer in the 21st century.

 

[launderess]

Ok, read the entire CR review on W&D last night, and here is my take on things.

First, this has to be the most piss poor review of appliances CR has ever given. One may write to CR if time permits and let them know this.

Review does give any information as to what the test load consisted of,what sort of soils/stains were used on test garments, and so on. In fact the entire "review" of washers takes up about 1 and 1/3 page with parts of those pages showing features. Cycle chosen was "normal" but what that is varies by washer IMHO.

Here is what CR stays about SQ units:

"Short isn't always sweet. Odds are, you've used Speed Queen's commercial machines if you've ever visited a laundromat. But that hard-wroking heritage did not help its consumer models in our tests."

"The front loading Speed Queen washer's 35 minute regular cycle proved too short to clean our test loads thoroughly. A thermostat instead of the usual moisture sensor also accounts for the matching dryer's unimpressive performance. Added gripe: control knobs for both that turn in just one direction."

Now has ANYONE used a washer with quasi mechianical timers that turned more than one way?

Review does not speak to the fact a SQ front loader is built vastly better than the mainly plastic Kenmore "HE2" series CR raves over.

Rankings:

HE Front Loaders Only:

Kenmore Elite HE4T
Whirlpool Duet HT
Frigidaire LTF2940E (Lowes version)
Kenmore HE3
Maytag Neptune MAH8700
Bosch Nexxt Premium
LG WM1814C
Siemans Ultra Sense
Whirlpool Duet GHW9150P
LG WM2277H
Maytag Neptune MAH9700
Frigidaire FTF2140E
GE WBVH6240F
Kenmore HE2 4646
Frigidaire Gallery GLTR1670
Naytag Neptune MAH6500A
Miele Touchtronic W113
Asko W6021
Speed Queen CTS90AWN

 

[toggleswitch]

CR really is a disgrace.

No clue whatsoever. I like their once-a year buying guide just to get an idea of newer features across the board on all types of products.

Save that little benny, it's fabulous, colorful toilet paper.

 

[DADoES]

Some current models of Whirlpool/Kenmore/KA have timers that turn both ways. GE machines with mechanical controls that are really electronic turn both directions.

But as has been said, it is idiotic for *that* point to downgrade a rating.

I'm thinking that CR mostly nowadays goes by retailer descriptions and listings of features when they buy the test machines, as compared to testing the machines thoroughly themselves to determine the features and capabilities. CR has repeatedly said F&P washers do not have ATC ... when we know they do.

 

[varenovator]

The timer comment speaks to CR's lack of credibility. I think it is true that any 'knob' that turns both ways is really an electronic control disguised as a knob for the comfort/familiarity of the consumer. SQ should have gotten a reliability plus for not using electronics that are the source of so many service calls (how many of us with 'old' mechanical controls have had them go bad?).

As I've posted elsewhere, if you look at the ratings for the individual categories in CR's latest report, there is no logical explanation on how they came up with the 'overall' rating. I did a quick regression analysis, and came up with results that said that 'gentleness' is a negative factor - the better the rating, the worse the overall rating. The results also showed that the only atributes that were statistically related to their overall ratings were Washing Performance and Capacity (values of all other aspects could reasonably be interpreted as contributing zero to the overall rating). Oh, also, the only other valid factor was washer type - frontloaders get +5 (i.e. a front loader with the same ratings as a top loader would be rated 5 points higher), and a HE top-loader (Harmony or Calypso) gets -6 (same ratings results in 6 points less than a toploader, and 11 points less than a frontloader). Go figure.
And how do they give the Whirlpool Calypso, which they state clearly has problems with tangling and wrinkling clothes, a half-red-spot (second from highest rating) on gentleness??? And with all of their 'sophisticated' test processes, why are they completely silent on vibration issues? You would think that they could set up a floor joist system and test out the issue.

 

[the7]

Among these FL, my favorable 3 are the LAST 3.

 

[frigilux]

The Miele and Asko got very good overall scores, receiving a 63 and 61 respectively. By contrast, the highest score for a TL (Whirlpool Gold GSQ9669) was 61...which also garnered a very good rating for gentleness, which I found surprising. (I believe they test for gentleness by throwing in a bunch of squares of open-weave fabric with no hemmed edges. The more threads pulled out of place, the less gentle the washing action.)

The only area in which the Miele and Asko didn't receive a very good or excellent rating was for capacity. In fact, the Miele was rated as the quietest machine of the all tested models, both TL and FL.

By contrast, the equivalent of my Frigidaire received only a good rating for washing, good for capacity and good for gentleness.

As with a broken record, I repeat: Just because a model is 17th on the list doesn't mean it's a bad machine which was poorly rated. The point-spread between the top-rated FL model (Kenmore HE4T, scoring a 79) and the 18th on the list (Asko W6021, scoring a 61) is really not that much on a scale of 100. Except for the fact I prefer a machine with greater capacity, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to purchase either a Miele or an Asko.

Granted, the 19th model was the SQ, which received only a 31 due to it's poor washing score. Once SQ takes care of that, their machine will score much, much higher.

I have NO defense for their petty comment about the SQ's dial turning in only one direction. It was a ridiculous criticism.

But come one, kids; SQ is charging $1400 for a machine that doesn't clean well. Who deserves the criticism, here? If it was a GE, we'd all be bitching up a storm about it.