Pre-Test Advice Needed KDS18

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I am learning alot reading this post.

It does make me wonder though why KitchenAid made this so complex.  Seems there are so many dependencies just to get the detergent door to pop open.  In the previous models (like my 15 series) is seems so much less complex.  It was pretty much self contained and all it needed was some current from the timer to get it to pop open.  Although in the 15 only one door has to open vs. two doors in the later models.  I wonder if it had something to do with that.
 
Thanks All

Took the old door seal off last night and will install the new one today or tomorrow and re-test . Fingers crossed for no leaks😊😀
 
Success/Happiness

I put the new door seal on last night and successfully ran two full normal wash cycles with no leaks. In addition to that, for whatever reason the main wash soap dispenser also opened!! There is still a small occasional drip from that appears to be coming from the soap dispenser, it drips from the metal pins on each of the soap cups, it's not significant but I don't know if it's a big deal or not.

I ordered what I thought were stainless panels to replace the white ones that were on the machine originally. Turns out they are just the upper and lower flat panels with no way to attach them. There must be some sort of trim kit required for them to slide into but not sure if that is available/obtainable or not. Anyone know??

I also noticed that the lower racks that I am finding online appear to be smaller than the original rusty one that is in there now. Specifically only 5 rows of tines on the right side compared to 7 rows on the one I have now. Did they change the design of these at some point?

Anyway, I think I am ready to put the machine in use in the kitchen very soon. Thanks to all for your great help and advice!
 
Mark:

The stainless panels you found were intended for a KA model that has the "trim kit," which is a set of aluminum extrusions that form a frame around the door and the service panel. The extrusions are screwed to the edges of the panels; the stainless panels slip into the frame they form. This feature was called the "Vari-Front."

There are two ways to get a stainless look for your DW. One is to find a trim kit, either as NOS parts or by salvaging it off a parts machine. You'll have to drill holes in the edges of your existing panels for the screws yourself, or just swap panels.

The other way is to find the true stainless panels, which were available for some models. This is the entire outer panel, not just a flat piece, in stainless. I know the 15 series had these available - I'm looking for them. But I don't know about the 18 series. Perhaps others here will know.

Here's a page from the 15-series sales brochure, originally posted by Ben swestoyz. You can see that one model (the wood-fronted one) has the frame around the front panels, and others don't:

danemodsandy++8-23-2014-07-14-50.jpg
 
Mark,

Here is a link to a post that was made years ago. At first I was reluctant to post this as there is a bit of a tiff between Sandy and I in the link but we're long since over it and helping you is the most important issue. It appears that I over reacted to Sandy's posts but the past is inviolate.

Click on the link and scroll down to the last reply - #20. If you continue to have problems with you're dispenser cups leaking this might help.

B.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44427_20
 
Yesterday's Testing

I wanted to try the Soak & Scrub and Sani Cycles so I did some additional testing yesterday in the garage. The Soak & Scrub cycle completed correctly and both soap dispensers opened on time with no problem :). I also noticed only a couple of drips from the dispenser during the cycle. Is it possible that this leak would just correct itself?

One thing I noticed during testing on Friday and yesterday is that the machine seems to be overfilling after the first 2 or 3 fills. It was connected with a hose to the faucet of a slop sink and I had the hot water opened all the way. After the 2nd or 3rd fill, it adds additional water in short bursts until I assume that the float cuts it off. It also does not drain all of the water out after this happens. Could this be caused by having the hot water faucet opened up all the way?

Next I tried the Sani-Cycle. All went fine and it advanced to Sani and I could hear the water heating. It stayed in the Sani mode for quite awhile and I came into the house to refill my beverage :). When I returned to the garage, the power to the machine was off and there was a puddle of water in front of the door. The machine was plugged into a GFI outlet with an extension cord and the breaker had tripped. I reset the breaker and pushed Cancel Drain but the GFI immediately blew again. I tried this two more times with the same result. The water in the machine was extremely hot along with the tank. I opened the door and decided to let things cool down. After about an hour, I plugged it back in, pushed Cancel Drain and it powered up and drained (it did take 3 Cancel Drains to empty the machine, I'm assuming because of the overfill). I disconnected the water hose and reconnected it turning the water on only about half way and ran two Rinse & Hold cycles and the machine did not add additional water after the initial fill cutoff and drained completely each time with no leaks.

Anyway, I have an installer scheduled for tomorrow to remove my current Bosch dishwasher and put the KA in. I would like your opinions on whether I should proceed or if are there other things I need to check?

Thank you as always for your help!

Mark
 
 
There's apparently an obstruction somewhere in the outlet path.  Should not take 3 Cancel/Drain cycles to fully drain the water whether or not an overfill is involved.

The inlet valve has a flow washer that should allow the proper fill level on a wide range of supply pressures.

Seems that a leak occurred, something got wet and the GFI came into play.
 
What should I check next?

Where should I check for the obstruction? The drain hose is clear but is there somewhere else I should check?
 
Is the drain solenoid opening properly? Operate the valve by hand. Does it open and close easily? Is it noisy? You might want to cancel that installation until the machine is working properly.
 
Yes

The drain valve is opening properly, it makes the normal click when it opens and I can hear it close at the end of the drain. What's strange is that it drains fine and completely in the first few fills when the water cuts off and does not come back on, it's only when it gives the extra bursts of water that it doesn't drain completely.
 
Stupid iPad is acting up. I've only worked on a KDS-20 and newer. I don't think the cycle increments are much different but it's possible. The 20 does a brief fill (a few seconds) and pump out, called a purge at the end of some of the washes or rinses. I don't remember exactly. I'll have to pull up the service manual to give you exact cycle intervals. I'm not sure if they're the same from the 18 to the 20.
 
I'm familiar with both the 18 & 20

The 18 has no purges but the 20 and newer do. It's funny, my Mom got her 18 new in 1977 and I was mesmerized by it. Can't count how many times I sat in front of it and listened to it run when nobody was home. I haven't heard one of these machines run in more than 25 years but all the familiar sounds came instantly rushing back. All sounds normal except for the weird extra water that goes in after the initial fill cutoff. Could this be the fill valve? I want to believe that it is just that was hooked up to the sink with a hose and the hot water turned completely on. The funny thing is that is doesn't add the extra water on the first two prewashes, just going forward and it didn't do it on the two final Rinse & Hold cycles that I ran yesterday with the hot water turned on only half way.
 
I would wait to install that machine in the house!

With the problems you seem to be having with your machine, I would not put it inside the house until I was more reasonably sure it was working perfectly. You NEED to find out why it overfilled and then tripped out the gfci breaker on your last test. As DADoES said, it should not take 3 cancel/Drain cycles to drain it out. First make sure that you have the proper sized drain hose on it. DO NOT USE A CORRUGATED HOSE!

These hoses slow down the drain way too much and the length of the drain periods between cycle segments is not always long enough to drain all the water out with the restrictions. I had that happen when I installed my 18 in the house here.

You need to have a 5/8" heater hose from the drain valve to the sink outled. That is what is recommended.Anything smaller will slow down the draining process.

Make sure that you don't have a kink in the hose as well.
Also, if you have the original drain impeller in the machine, it was replaced with a higher volume impeller that drains the machine much faster. so you may have to consider installing a new shaft seal and impeller kit in the future. It is Hobart part number 435102. Not sure if it is still available from Whirlpool under whatever number they changed the Kitchenaid number to.

Regarding the Sani Cycle/ These machines have a thermal overload that shut shuts the machine down if the water overheats in the tank. The machine will be completely dead until the tstat resets and that could be an hour.

What this more seriously indicates is that the 180 degree thermostat that should close when the water heats up to 180 to advance the timer to start the pump back up is not functioning and then the hi-limit kicks the machine off. This will not remedy itself and will repeat the same course of action each time you use the sani cycle. Needless to say, that thermostat is not available as a replacement part anymore. You would have to find one on Ebay or from another machine or a member of this forum. Later machines had thermostats of a lower temp range so if you decided to go that route, you would no longer have the 180 degree sani but one closer to 165 or so. and again, availability my be limited.
When it fills for the sani or final rinse, it does not fill to the same level as the normal wash level. Since it was probably overfilled already, once it did start back up, the spraying water displaces the air in the tank and would have had no place to go but out the door to balance out the air pressure. That may have caused the gfci to trip.

You have more things to check now so have a go at it before it goes into the house and causes damage inside.
 
Do you have a PayPal account and can you open a pdf document? If you do and you can, go up to the top of the page. See the square with the picture in it to the right of "Dirty Laundry and the left of the User Name and Password fields? Click on it, click on the arrow to the right of the "Show All Publishers", scroll down to KitchenAid, click on it, scroll down to "Service Manuals and Parts Lists". Click on the KitchenAid KD-18 Series Dishwasher Service Manual, pay for the manual through PayPal, make a file for the manual to go into, download the manual after you've payed for it and save it in the file folder you made. You'll have 24 hours to download and save the manual. Then you'll have something to work with. People will still be able to answer your questions but you'll have a guide for now and in the future. Make a back-up on a portable drive or a USB stick in case your computer crashes. Then you'll always have it. [this post was last edited: 8/24/2014-10:38]
 
Thank You

The drain hose I am using is 5/8 inch rubber high temperature hose, it is not ribbed. I can avoid using the Sani-Cycle if that is the issue, not a big deal. Do you think the over filling is a fill valve issue? I will wait to install until additional testing is done and I am comfortable that all is OK but just not sure how to know what is causing the overfill issue.
 
Thank You

I do have the user manual, service manual and parts list, I will review and troubleshoot from there, Thanks again!
 
I'm sorry. I just assumed you didn't have a service manual. Stevet is your best source for K/A mysteries. Steve, hope you don't mind me recommending your advice.
 
No apology necessary

I appreciate the guidance! I will see if there is anything regarding the current issues I am having.

Thanks Again!
 
With regards to the dripping detergent dispenser shafts correcting themselves... they won't. Mine did exactly the same thing, and I think it is because at the beginning of the cycle they are dry, but once moistened and heated, they will expand a bit and stop dripping for the rest of the cycle, until they dry out again and shrink. Take the bit of time to change the o-rings and the dripping will be done for good. (Links above) The good news is that both doors are opening properly, which means the problem isn't electric.

As for the flooding problem, I'm hoping it's not but wondering if it might be a timer issue? The reason I wonder this is because there are two lengths of fills on the 18. If you take a look at the service manual at the chart on page 41, you'll see a column labelled "Low fill" and one labelled "High fill". Notice that the first two fills of the Normal cycle are low, and the 3rd fill is a high. The low fill is accomplished by sending power through a "Sub Interval Switch" which limits the fill to 60 seconds of the normal 90 second timer interval, starting at the 5 second mark and stopping at the 65 second mark of the interval. Notice that all of the drains also use this Sub Interval Switch to limit the drain period to 60 seconds. On page 34 of the service manual, you can see the Sub Interval Switch contact in the "Timer" block about two third of the way down, labelled "S.I.S.". The switch contact in the diagram below that controls whether the S.I.S. switch sends power to the fill valve or drain valve. But the switch below that one is what sends power to the fill valve during a high fill... I'm wondering if this contact is not opening after the 90 second fill and is continuing to allow water to flow through the next timer interval, until the float switch stops it? What you can do is run the machine through a Normal cycle, and as soon as the third fill starts, start timing the fill. After 90 seconds, the fill should stop as the timer advances to the next interval... if it does not, then the timer might need servicing/replacing.

For the Sani Cycle, if you have a digital oven thermometer or some other kind, you can use it to measure the water temperature as it heats up. If it gets too far above 180F, then the Sani thermostat is stuck open and will need to be replaced if you want to use that cycle. When working, once the water comes up to temperature, you should hear a slight click, the Sani light will go out and the Rinse light will come back on, and the timer motor will restart to complete the 90 second interval, at which point the Sani heater will shut off and the motor restart.
 
Hopefully Not timer

Will test again this weekend. If it does appear to be a timer issue, I assume they are no longer available new??? How should I search for someone knowledgable to possibly service/repair it??
 
TImer for your KDS-18

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">Check out this auction.  I bet he has one.  I have bought two timers from him and both times, very happy.  I don't know the part number but I think you can write to him with your model number and he can tell you or someone else could post it for you.</span>

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">Both timers were new in the box.  One I put on my 15 and the other I have put away just in case.  If you are planning to use this as your daily machine you might want to consider getting a timer when you can and have it for when you need it. </span>

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">I hope he can help you.</span>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120784737150?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
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Part #

Does anyone know the part # for the timer. I have the parts list but am not coming up with anything searching with the number listed but not sure if I am looking at the right number. The number I am searching is E115998 listed as Timer-Interval.

Thanks
 
You can Email him...

<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva; font-size: 12pt;">If you are looking at that auction I sent you, I think you can E-mail him with the model of your dishwasher and what you think the Part # is and I think he can confirm it's the right part.  </span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva; font-size: 12pt;">I had him confirm the timer for my 15 before I actaully bought it.  Someone may respond with the part but I don' thave any kind of cross-reference chart between the old numbers and the new ones.  Repairclinic.com lists it as 4162399 and that's usually a pretty good source.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva; font-size: 12pt;">There are two on eBay right now and both over $100 this other guy is your best bet first if he has one.</span>
 
Confused

Well, I pulled the 18 out to the garage yesterday for another test. I connected it to the faucet of the slop sink with a garden hose. I turned the hot water on only halfway and ran a normal wash. No overfills, no drain issues. The high fills are cutting off right at 90 seconds. Next, decided to try the sani-cycle supervised and all went well, no overfills or drain issues and the machine heated and resumed the cycle with no issues. I know everybody says that having it hooked to the sink would not cause the overfills but it did not do it with the water opened only halfway. While I am happy that it doesn't appear to be a timer issue, I am wondering if it is safe to proceed having it installed in the kitchen.
 
Here's another easy test to try to see if it is getting too much water. Run a Normal cycle with the sink hot water open half way as you did before, then after the third fill (the high fill), open the door and note how high the water level is in the tank. Close the door, then open your water valve all the way and let the dishwasher continue to the 4th fill, which is another high fill. Again after 90 seconds, open the door and see how high the water level is this time. If during this fill you hear the float switch stopping the water before the 90 seconds is completed, open the door immediately and verify that the high water level is causing the float switch to trigger. If this happens, you are getting too much water with your valve open all the way, and you'll need to find some way to restrict the water flow to prevent this from happening when the dishwasher gets permanently installed.
 
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