Which way?
In such a way that the load is handled as if in an imaginary H-axis frontloader.
In such a way that the load is handled as if in an imaginary H-axis frontloader.
Sneaking Into the Neptune TL
- Thread starter gansky1
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Disc positions...
Here is the picture that I posted in the first thread, you can see the discs for reference. Contrary to what you might think, the discs only turn clockwise - you'd think they would turn the opposite (counterclockwise) direction with the ridge to help lift the clothes, but the clothes move in a rolling motion with the discs. This seemed so odd to me the first time I saw it a year ago, but the clothes actually do get moving pretty vigorously. The other strange things is that if you notice in this picture the "step" or ridge on the disc can be seen at the 12 o'clock position on one and if you look closely, you can see the the ridge on the opposite side is at about the 6 o'clock position. They are never together in exactly the same alignment, always this same configuration. Now to be a bit more confusing, this is a reversing motor machine. When it first starts it twirl-drain & spinning sequence, the discs move ever-so slowly in a counterclockwise direction to help lift the load up and help spread it out over the surface of the drum. This counterclockwise rotation happens at the same time the tub begins to spin so when the clothes are lifted, they are grabbed by the g-forces and held to the sides of the tub.
I've been quite pleased with the results so far, I'm sure I'll find things I don't care for along the way - as with ANY washer, but the cleaning seems to be outstanding. I haven't noticed a lot of extra wear on clothes yet and even with a few mixed loads, it hasn't shown any aprreciable tangling or roping. I did a huge load of two sets of queen size sheets and four pillowcases and it came out beautifully - no roping, tangling and it did not rip and tear things to shreds as some have claimed on other sites. Well, not yet anyway ;-)
I'm going to try to grab my sister's video camera so we you all can see this washing and the start of spin (IMO the best part) water levels, etc. This may take a bit as I don't have anyway to convert the video to digital format but we'll get it started anyway!
Here is the picture that I posted in the first thread, you can see the discs for reference. Contrary to what you might think, the discs only turn clockwise - you'd think they would turn the opposite (counterclockwise) direction with the ridge to help lift the clothes, but the clothes move in a rolling motion with the discs. This seemed so odd to me the first time I saw it a year ago, but the clothes actually do get moving pretty vigorously. The other strange things is that if you notice in this picture the "step" or ridge on the disc can be seen at the 12 o'clock position on one and if you look closely, you can see the the ridge on the opposite side is at about the 6 o'clock position. They are never together in exactly the same alignment, always this same configuration. Now to be a bit more confusing, this is a reversing motor machine. When it first starts it twirl-drain & spinning sequence, the discs move ever-so slowly in a counterclockwise direction to help lift the load up and help spread it out over the surface of the drum. This counterclockwise rotation happens at the same time the tub begins to spin so when the clothes are lifted, they are grabbed by the g-forces and held to the sides of the tub.
I've been quite pleased with the results so far, I'm sure I'll find things I don't care for along the way - as with ANY washer, but the cleaning seems to be outstanding. I haven't noticed a lot of extra wear on clothes yet and even with a few mixed loads, it hasn't shown any aprreciable tangling or roping. I did a huge load of two sets of queen size sheets and four pillowcases and it came out beautifully - no roping, tangling and it did not rip and tear things to shreds as some have claimed on other sites. Well, not yet anyway ;-)
I'm going to try to grab my sister's video camera so we you all can see this washing and the start of spin (IMO the best part) water levels, etc. This may take a bit as I don't have anyway to convert the video to digital format but we'll get it started anyway!
Greg:
At what speed do the disks turn?
Is there any wash/rinse water recirculation?
At what speed do the disks turn?
Is there any wash/rinse water recirculation?
Thanks Greg for clearing up my misunderstanding. I don't know how I got that inside my head. Probably by all the talk about the similarity with frontloaders. From what you describe I have the impression it could work a bit like the Dyson frontloader with it's contrarotating action. I'm really looking forward to a video. Glad you like it thus far and you don't have any tangling. I think you should keep the machine, it will be a classic like the Maytag combo I bet.
Peter, similar to a front loader, the discs turn at different speeds and frequency. On Super Wash, the discs turn about +/- 50 rpm continuously through the entire wash cycle, on normal cycle, it's a bit slower with pauses every 20-30 seconds or so. I've not tried the delicate cycles yet, but sweater season is nearly here!
There have been a few pleasant surprises with this washer so far, I'm sure there's more to discover, I'll bet under her skirt is an interesting photo-op...
There have been a few pleasant surprises with this washer so far, I'm sure there's more to discover, I'll bet under her skirt is an interesting photo-op...
westyslantfront
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hi greg...thank you for the pictures...i look forward to videos...ross
Greg I'm impressed
I would probably have never bothered with a TL Neptune but it seems VERY different than John's Calapso-failure machine with "E.Disfunction"!!!
Which, in my experienced opinion, does a horrible job, the first machine ever where the water and the clothes stay in different places inside the machine and the water actually misses everything!
To the contrary this machine looks like it really mixes everything up and makes the water actually do some work.
Gotta Love that FRESH START OY!
I can't wait to play with it, maybe I should scout out behind my Lowes.
jet
I would probably have never bothered with a TL Neptune but it seems VERY different than John's Calapso-failure machine with "E.Disfunction"!!!
Which, in my experienced opinion, does a horrible job, the first machine ever where the water and the clothes stay in different places inside the machine and the water actually misses everything!
To the contrary this machine looks like it really mixes everything up and makes the water actually do some work.
Gotta Love that FRESH START OY!
I can't wait to play with it, maybe I should scout out behind my Lowes.
jet
Brent-Aucoin
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Greg,
This machine really does sound so interesting!
I bet you are having fun!
Thanks for all of the pictures, and explanations.
Brent
This machine really does sound so interesting!
I bet you are having fun!
Thanks for all of the pictures, and explanations.
Brent
Thanks!!
What I want to know, is: "Is it quiet?"
If I were to have a new new washer, I would only be interested in a truly quiet machine.
Here, my washer is in the kitchen, which is literally two steps to the bedroom, and four steps to the living room. (This is a large, yet mostly open space.)
Lawrence/Maytagbear
What I want to know, is: "Is it quiet?"
If I were to have a new new washer, I would only be interested in a truly quiet machine.
Here, my washer is in the kitchen, which is literally two steps to the bedroom, and four steps to the living room. (This is a large, yet mostly open space.)
Lawrence/Maytagbear
runematic
Well-known member
We've sold quite a few of these. The machine pictured has a final spin of 800rpm. These aren't as quiet as I'd like, but not bad. As for the tangling, I haven't had a complaint. Here is a quote from a Maytag service bulletin that we use to help defuse any potential problems:
"With the introduction of an agitatorless top load washing machine, Maytag consumers are more likely to notice a common washing machine occurrence in the Neptune TL than they may have noticed in previous machines.
The long sleeves of dress shirts and the legs of pants can wrap around one another. The consumer may indicate that their clothes are "tangling". This is not a new phenomenon. What is new is that, without an agitator, a consumer can lift the whole load of laundry out of the machine in one group. It is easier for the customer to see that legs and arms wrap around each other.
One way to reduce this wrapping is to use the Wrinkle Control cycle. The tumbling cycle is modified in the different modes and this mode will reduce wrapping. Using a lower soil level setting will reduce the tumbling time and reduce wrapping. Remember, a heavy soil setting is designed for clothes that are truly quite dirty.
Another common consumer issue is wrinkled clothing. New high efficiency washing machines use higher spin speeds to remove the water from the clothing. This reduces drying time. This higher spin speed also applied a significantly higher centrifugal force on the clothing. This higher force results in the appearance of deeper and more pronounced wrinkles. In most cases, these wrinkles are not set into the fabric. If the clothes are laid out of hung to dry without any tumbling to relax the wrinkles, the wrinkles will remain.
Using fabric softener in the washing machine will also reduce wrinkles. Remember to have the customer dilute the softener in the dispenser.
A quick and easy solution to both the wrapping issue and the wrinkling issue is sitting right next to the washing machine, the dryer. Load the laundry into the dryer and most wrapping and wrinkling will disappear. If the consumer wishes to dry their garments flat or hanging up, a short tumble in the dryer at low heat to relax the wrinkles and wrapping followed by flat or line drying will have great results.
The energy savings offered by high efficiency washing machines can more than offset additional effort needed to get great results. Just like with anything new, there is a certain time needed for adjustment. If the customer gives the washer and dryer pair the opportunity to work together as designed, they will in most cases be happy with the performance and the cleaning levels offered through new washing technologies."
"With the introduction of an agitatorless top load washing machine, Maytag consumers are more likely to notice a common washing machine occurrence in the Neptune TL than they may have noticed in previous machines.
The long sleeves of dress shirts and the legs of pants can wrap around one another. The consumer may indicate that their clothes are "tangling". This is not a new phenomenon. What is new is that, without an agitator, a consumer can lift the whole load of laundry out of the machine in one group. It is easier for the customer to see that legs and arms wrap around each other.
One way to reduce this wrapping is to use the Wrinkle Control cycle. The tumbling cycle is modified in the different modes and this mode will reduce wrapping. Using a lower soil level setting will reduce the tumbling time and reduce wrapping. Remember, a heavy soil setting is designed for clothes that are truly quite dirty.
Another common consumer issue is wrinkled clothing. New high efficiency washing machines use higher spin speeds to remove the water from the clothing. This reduces drying time. This higher spin speed also applied a significantly higher centrifugal force on the clothing. This higher force results in the appearance of deeper and more pronounced wrinkles. In most cases, these wrinkles are not set into the fabric. If the clothes are laid out of hung to dry without any tumbling to relax the wrinkles, the wrinkles will remain.
Using fabric softener in the washing machine will also reduce wrinkles. Remember to have the customer dilute the softener in the dispenser.
A quick and easy solution to both the wrapping issue and the wrinkling issue is sitting right next to the washing machine, the dryer. Load the laundry into the dryer and most wrapping and wrinkling will disappear. If the consumer wishes to dry their garments flat or hanging up, a short tumble in the dryer at low heat to relax the wrinkles and wrapping followed by flat or line drying will have great results.
The energy savings offered by high efficiency washing machines can more than offset additional effort needed to get great results. Just like with anything new, there is a certain time needed for adjustment. If the customer gives the washer and dryer pair the opportunity to work together as designed, they will in most cases be happy with the performance and the cleaning levels offered through new washing technologies."
Designgeek
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Ahh yes!, as I expected: lift out the clothes-ball, drop it into the tumble dryer, and it automatically "untangles" and "unwrinkles." That's taking "automatic" to a whole new level!
Very interesting explanation on Maytag's part, about the tangle or "wrap" factor. Makes perfect sense. With a center agitator, you lift out one piece at a time and don't tend to notice the fact that shirt sleeves are wrapped around pants legs and so on. Or you notice but it's "not remarkable" since it's always happened that way. But w/o a center agitator, you see a ball of clothes and immediately assume it's tangled, which it's not. But lifting out the whole load in one neat ball, ready to drop into the dryer, is way way cool. Question is, does the matching dryer have a reversing-drum feature where it reverses direction of rotation every so often throughout the cycle?
I figured Maytag had to have put a decent amount of engineering smarts into that design, and it would work properly for anyone who had one and understood how it was supposed to work.
What they really need for this is an animated cartoon ad showing how you use it, and that you can just "dump in" the load w/o arranging items around an agitator, and then lift out the clothes-ball in one swoop, drop it in the dryer, and the dryer separates it all back out again. This could be illustrated very easily nowadays.
I hope they keep it in the product line. Seems to me the best of both worlds in a way, i.e. most of what people like about TLs and the efficiency of a FL, plus vertical axis spin to reduce vibration. And no door seal. Only thing it lacks is a window in the lid, but obviously that's not essential seeing as Gansky was able to bypass the switch easily enough.
What I'd like to see next is one of these with a rotary knob for setting the cycles. For some reason I just can't get used to seeing washers with a bunch of flat touchscreen buttons on them instead of a knob. Hmm!
Very interesting explanation on Maytag's part, about the tangle or "wrap" factor. Makes perfect sense. With a center agitator, you lift out one piece at a time and don't tend to notice the fact that shirt sleeves are wrapped around pants legs and so on. Or you notice but it's "not remarkable" since it's always happened that way. But w/o a center agitator, you see a ball of clothes and immediately assume it's tangled, which it's not. But lifting out the whole load in one neat ball, ready to drop into the dryer, is way way cool. Question is, does the matching dryer have a reversing-drum feature where it reverses direction of rotation every so often throughout the cycle?
I figured Maytag had to have put a decent amount of engineering smarts into that design, and it would work properly for anyone who had one and understood how it was supposed to work.
What they really need for this is an animated cartoon ad showing how you use it, and that you can just "dump in" the load w/o arranging items around an agitator, and then lift out the clothes-ball in one swoop, drop it in the dryer, and the dryer separates it all back out again. This could be illustrated very easily nowadays.
I hope they keep it in the product line. Seems to me the best of both worlds in a way, i.e. most of what people like about TLs and the efficiency of a FL, plus vertical axis spin to reduce vibration. And no door seal. Only thing it lacks is a window in the lid, but obviously that's not essential seeing as Gansky was able to bypass the switch easily enough.
What I'd like to see next is one of these with a rotary knob for setting the cycles. For some reason I just can't get used to seeing washers with a bunch of flat touchscreen buttons on them instead of a knob. Hmm!
This is exactly what I've been saying about new washer instructional videos for several years now. For the most part, they are not instructional at all. LG has about the worst one I've ever seen, Whirlpool Duet is closer to what's needed for most people to understand the functions and capabilities of the washer. For the average user that has no clue (or care) what goes on inside the tried and true top loading washer, to open the door or peer through the glass and see a strange sight or two is a bit offputting. Opening the lid of the Maytag Neptune TL and seeing a "ball" of clothes is quite shocking, perhaps if they had left the clothes stuck to the sides of the basket, it would have been more familiar and reassuring that their worlds had not been turned upside down.
Bypassing the lid switches was easy enough, but since the water sprays from nozzles in the top panel into channels in the lid, with it open, the water hits the lid and the front of the observer in a quite embarassing way. I need to experiment with a small piece of rubber or plastic to slip in behind the lid to direct the water flow directly into the tub.
Bypassing the lid switches was easy enough, but since the water sprays from nozzles in the top panel into channels in the lid, with it open, the water hits the lid and the front of the observer in a quite embarassing way. I need to experiment with a small piece of rubber or plastic to slip in behind the lid to direct the water flow directly into the tub.
someone mentioned hoovermatic?
I was just reading through this thread and saw someone mentionthe thought of a hoovermatic with two impellors. What a great idea, especially if they worked against each other. IE. instead of them rotating in the same direction, how about opposite. If anyone saw the movies about the washing action of the Dyson, I get a (non scientist perspective)thought that this would generate and more powerful action with maybe less wear than a normal hoovermatic. Anyone got any ideas on this one?
I was just reading through this thread and saw someone mentionthe thought of a hoovermatic with two impellors. What a great idea, especially if they worked against each other. IE. instead of them rotating in the same direction, how about opposite. If anyone saw the movies about the washing action of the Dyson, I get a (non scientist perspective)thought that this would generate and more powerful action with maybe less wear than a normal hoovermatic. Anyone got any ideas on this one?
Designgeek
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Gansky1, you know why they set up the water inlets like that, with the channels through the lid and so on: to drench appliance hobbyists and geeks who insist on peeking!
Maybe even to discourage competitors' engineers from taking a look and working around the patents too! ("Yow! I'm soaked! Bob, we don't have to worry about competing with this one, it squirts water all over the place!")
Bearpeter, I suggested a dual-impeller Hoovermatic a ways back in I don't remember which thread. The idea was, the two impellers would be opposite each other, and would work in various phases, in sync and opposed, thereby eliminating the horizontal vortex action that tends to cause tangles. But the reason they wouldn't have built it that way is because the mechanism for the second impeller would have meant reduced capacity or made the machine too large for the usual hiding-places where people store their compacts between washdays.
Maytag's design is much more clever than my proposed dual impeller Hoovermatic, because the impellers converge at the bottom, the better to handle small loads with less water; and they act more like lift-and-drop blades than like impellers in the conventional sense.
Maytag had a portable a couple of decades ago, similar to the Hoovermatic but with dual impellers on one side of the tub. Would be interesting to see videos of that.
Maybe even to discourage competitors' engineers from taking a look and working around the patents too! ("Yow! I'm soaked! Bob, we don't have to worry about competing with this one, it squirts water all over the place!")Bearpeter, I suggested a dual-impeller Hoovermatic a ways back in I don't remember which thread. The idea was, the two impellers would be opposite each other, and would work in various phases, in sync and opposed, thereby eliminating the horizontal vortex action that tends to cause tangles. But the reason they wouldn't have built it that way is because the mechanism for the second impeller would have meant reduced capacity or made the machine too large for the usual hiding-places where people store their compacts between washdays.
Maytag's design is much more clever than my proposed dual impeller Hoovermatic, because the impellers converge at the bottom, the better to handle small loads with less water; and they act more like lift-and-drop blades than like impellers in the conventional sense.
Maytag had a portable a couple of decades ago, similar to the Hoovermatic but with dual impellers on one side of the tub. Would be interesting to see videos of that.
Small Loads
Actually, small loads in the Neptune TL are quite disappointing. The impeller/discs rotate in the opposite direction you might think in wash/agitate cycles (the 'vane' is not lifting the load at all) and the action is pretty tame with only a few items in the tub. The few items I did in the very first load did move and turn over, OK for lightly soiled or delicate items, but not for heavily soiled items that needed a good scrubbing or thrashing.
Actually, small loads in the Neptune TL are quite disappointing. The impeller/discs rotate in the opposite direction you might think in wash/agitate cycles (the 'vane' is not lifting the load at all) and the action is pretty tame with only a few items in the tub. The few items I did in the very first load did move and turn over, OK for lightly soiled or delicate items, but not for heavily soiled items that needed a good scrubbing or thrashing.
mayken4now
Well-known member
This is a real exciting posting Greg! I like runematic's comments and bulletin that was posted. Very educational. Keep the fun disc-ing
Steve
Steve
westytoploader
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Ahhh, so the discs DO rotate in the opposite direction on small loads! Interesting! It surprises me that there's no "lifting" action by the vane on the disc as well...can you do a small load on the Normal cycle and fool the machine into thinking it's loaded down?
I believe he means that the discs don't rotate in the direction one would assume they should, based on how the large center "vanes" are molded into them ... not that they rotate in the opposite direction during a small load from how they rotate during a large load.
Look at picture #3 above. See how the load is shoved up against the back of the wash basket, which means the disc at the right is turning clockwise and the one on the left is turning counterclockwise. Now look at the disc on the right, at the "vane" that is positioned at the lower right of the picture. With the disc turning clockwise, it slides beneath the clothes and doesn't provide any direct lifting force to roll them over. Also reference this picture.
The little "nubs" molded into the outer edge of the discs, do provide some rollover, as does friction against the surface of the discs with the ridges molded into them. But a very small load, one, two, or three items, may not get much action.
Look at picture #3 above. See how the load is shoved up against the back of the wash basket, which means the disc at the right is turning clockwise and the one on the left is turning counterclockwise. Now look at the disc on the right, at the "vane" that is positioned at the lower right of the picture. With the disc turning clockwise, it slides beneath the clothes and doesn't provide any direct lifting force to roll them over. Also reference this picture.
The little "nubs" molded into the outer edge of the discs, do provide some rollover, as does friction against the surface of the discs with the ridges molded into them. But a very small load, one, two, or three items, may not get much action.
mrb627
Well-known member
Pillows
I wonder how a couple of king size pillows would fair in this machine. My duet handles them with ease. I wouldn't expect this machine to fair very well...
MRB
I wonder how a couple of king size pillows would fair in this machine. My duet handles them with ease. I wouldn't expect this machine to fair very well...
MRB
