Spin Drain vs Neutral Drain

[thefixer]

"Coriolis effect, might be a reason. however, just to note Ive seen older GEs spin counter clockwise while other spin drain washers spin clock wise like speed queen"

You actually fell for that one ;-) The coriolis effect has absolutely no discernable effect on your washer draining nor any other drain in your home including the direction that the water spins down your toilet.

 

[kenmore71]

One minor thing I will add to Robert's comments and this is truly a "niche" issue. I have had a hell of time with my Maytag "perforated tub in a solid tub" AMP washer and sand. I foolishly washed some work clothes that had a fair amount of sand on them a while back and 10 loads later that dang thing still has sand in it! My two options at this point are to remove the inner perforated basket and clean it OR just wait it out. I think that ONLY the 1947 Unimatics and the Maytag AMPs used this perforated basket in a solid tub design.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Yes I totally agree with Mark. From my experience the double tub design was flawed from the start. The only other US made machine that has that design is the Philco, but it is different in the fact that the liner only goes down the side of the tub and does not cover the bottom of the tub. This helps to prevent sand from getting trapped between the two tubs. I suspect that is why Frigidaire only made that design in 1947 and 1948, and changed it in 1949 to a single tub.

 

[DirectDriveDave]

Robert (or anyone else who knows), I have always wanted to ask this. With the older solid-tub machines, was a spin-drain the ONLY way to get water out of the tubs, or was there some kind of opening on the bottom, for *shrugs* emergency purposes or something?

 

[Unimatic1140]

Hi Dave, there is no "emergency drain" so to speak in solid tub washers. A few times I had machines need service with the tub full of water, but I have a hand pump that will drain the tub easily in about five minutes.

That said, many perforated tub washers will have the exact same issue, because they run the hose up and out near the top so just laying the hose down wont drain the machine.

 

[DigAPony]

The coriolis effect has absolutely no discernable effect

Just a small gag on my part, heh..

I was wondering when someone would notice and smack that one down...

 

[DirectDriveDave]

Hose near the top with perforated tub

Wow really? I wonder why they did that.

 

[kitty]

Pros and cons to each...

Spin drain really wears out the clutch , but it has its advantages. When the water is spin drain, it leves the clothes all along the drum, so that there is less clothing for the water to get through. Also, when the water completely drains, it just speeds up to full speed.

Neutral drain, though, leaves the clothes in a giant heap along the bottom of the tub, so it is
harder for the water to get through the clothes. On most machines, the drain is like 5 minutes, so it wastes a lot of time sitting there doing nothing.

 

[kitty]

Pros and cons to each...

Spin drain really wears out the clutch , but it has its advantages. When the water is spin drain, it leves the clothes all along the drum, so that there is less clothing for the water to get through. Also, when the water completely drains, it just speeds up to full speed.

Neutral drain, though, leaves the clothes in a giant heap along the bottom of the tub, so it is
harder for the water to get through the clothes. On most machines, the drain is like 5 minutes, so it wastes a lot of time sitting there doing nothing.

 

[kitty]

OOPS!!!!

I don't know why I always post it twice.

 

[thefixer]

"On most machines, the drain is like 5 minutes"

Neutral drain on Whirlpool DD's is 2 minutes. What machine has a 5 minute neutral drain?

 

[Chetlaham]

Long neutral drains

From personal observation older whirlpools used to do 4 minute drain based on the cycle charts on the back of the machine. The water would usually be gone in about 1 minute 30 seconds, but the machine would just it there. Im guessing it was done around worst case senerio conditions?

Plasti tub GEs have a long drain period but never timed it. I do know the newer portables have a 6 minute drain time but I think that has to do more with the fact its draining into a sink.

 

[yogitunes]

Whirlpools super capacity belt drive machines have a 4 minute drain, mainly because of the extra water...standard capacity only ran for 2 minutes...

some portables had a longer drain phase, only because of the chance of using the unicoupler which was a smaller hose, and taking longer to drain....

a lot of electronic machines gauged drain times based on the pressure switch resetting, and allowing enough time to drain the outter tub, and then kick into spin.....this saved the most time for when washing a small load....

 

[mrb627]

Whirlpool belt drive

I always thought the Whirlpool belt drive machines used a four minute drain because forcing water through a potentially partial self cleaning filter clog could take longer than the two minute increment.

Malcolm

 

[DADoES]

 
Our 1976 18lb capacity LDA7800 drained a full fill in a few seconds less than 2 minutes when it was new.  Years later it took a little longer than 2 minutes, presumably after the filter had accumulated some residue as Malcolm says.

 

[washman]

Malcolm

my mom's 80's era WP was a neutral drain and it had the bed-of-nails lint filter as opposed to the self cleaning (as her older Kennmore did). It took about 3-4 minutes to drain before the timer kicked the trans into spin.

 

[yogitunes]

I have a 1985 Supreme large capacity......it has both the underbasket comb filter, and a bed of nails manual filter...and it drains in about 90 seconds, the rest is just wasted time....

the standard capacity just has a bed of nails manual filter, and roughly over a minute its empty...

I always had standard capacities of the models from the 60's and 70's, and a variety of filters, they all seemed to just have a 2 minute drain...

actually I was looking more at not which was better or preferred, but why each manufacturer picked the one that they did...

 

[washman]

Speed Queen, when owned by Mcgraw Edison

advertised "fluid drive" that minimized starting shock to the mechanism when put into spin. I don't rightly know what exactly that was but it must have been some marketing bonus otherwise they would not have mentioned it. Perhaps other brands had issues when going from dead stop to spin? Dunno.

My goal is to find an Arc-Cuate transmission and tear it down to see what makes it tick.

Next goal is to find where the missing 30 degrees of agitation stroke is in my washer.

Finally, figure out the right dose of Roma detergent that cleans the damn clothes without a plethora of suds. Half cup is far too little; full cup is suds city. See my post on this for pix.

 

[beekeyknee]

Fluid drive in a washing machine is kind of like an automatic transmission in a car. The rotors or turbine fins in the drive are close together with oil in the compartment. When one rotor spins the oil pushes against the other rotor and transfers the motion or energy w/o direct contact. The same principle applies in jet engines, electricity production and so forth. The differences are what substance is used to transfer the energy, such as air, water, transmission fluid (oil), burning jet fuel and steam. Magnetic drive and turbo-electric are other examples of non-direct energy transfer.

 

[norgechef]

Well, I know these machines aren't even made any more bu

I have always liked these machines and always thought the Maytag Performa/Atlantis platform machines would have been more reliable if they had electric pumps that did a neutral drain before the washer immediately started spinning, putting all that strain on the plastic transmission and the motor. I also know for a fact that the motor's in spin drain washers heat up allot more than those in neutral drain washers.

The cheap plastic input pinion gear can not handle the clutch spring riding on it during the spin drain, which I would assume is the reason the transmission's were so unreliable in the norgetag's. I know I can hear something grinding in my norgetag while the washer is spinning slowly, and the grinding sound fades out as the washer gets up to full speed.

So, I would have to agree with whoever thinks spin drains are better. I also have horrible issues with linting on a spin drain that have never been apparent when using neutral drain washers.I have seen several tub seals fail on norgetag's, I also blame that on the spin drains. So in terms of reliability id say it's a good thing that there are barely any washers left that do spin drains, even though most modern washers are complete crap anyways...however, spin drains are more fun to watch than a boring neutral drain with the annoying sounds of an electric pump.

As for the old helical/orbital drive Maytag's, spin drains never seemed to be a problem with lint removal or dependability, and im pretty sure Speed Queens are also able to last a long time while doing spin drains. I guess it just matters how heavy duty the washer really is...but id say washer's that do neutral drains work better performance wise too. I have used Whirlpool Direct Drives, Newer Whirlpool Belt Drives, Electrolux/Frigidaire Gallery washers and an LG Intellowasher, all of which do neutral drains, and have had excellent lint removal. On my norgetag...not so much.