Suds Saver Questions

[qualin]

OK, So I searched the old threads and couldn't find anything, sorry!

I need some questions answered about the "Suds Saver" feature found on 50's and 60's era top loading washing machines. I'm going to apologize in advance about the newb questions, but I'd like to get some knowledge gaps filled.

Question 1.
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Let's say I purchased a vintage machine with a Suds Saver Feature. How exactly would I use it? Pick your favorite brand, like Maytag, GE, Whirlpool, etc and detail the steps. I'm curious to know how different it would be between manufacturers.

Question 2.
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What do I need to make it work? Are there any extra drain hoses? (Perhaps? My parents 60's era Filter Flo would just flood the basement if it was left on by accident, so obviously something was being done incorrectly.)

Question 3.
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Why would I use it? (I'm assuming for water saving and not much else?)

Question 4.
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Why don't more modern machines have a Suds Saver Feature? I'm also assuming that modern detergents may have something to do with it?

Thanks everyone. I'd just like to get this straightened out.

 

[maytagbear]

A few answers

There are (at least) two reasons why suds savers are not made/used today. These are the two most mentioned here.

One reason is that people are too squeamish to reuse wash water, even though cleaning can be just as effective in water used once or twice, with small (and I do mean small) amounts of added detergent to each reuse. It was very common practice with wringer washers/twin tub washers to reuse the wash water at least 2-3 times. They are great for large families or other applications where several loads of the same level of dirt are run.

Another reason is that suds savers drain the wash water to a separate tub/sink (at least 20 gallon capacity), and most new construction does not make room for a separate tub/sink.

Plus, they are slightly more complicated. Only slightly more, however.

Our first automatic, a 1964 Whirlpool Imperial, was a suds saver. You stoppered the tub, and when the wash phase was done, the machine pumped the water to the tub. There was a second hose to go into the second tub or into a standpipe which acted also as a stopper for the wash water. The cycle completed as usual. When you washed the next load, you would add about 1/2 a cup of fresh detergent to the machine, and then turned the timer to a portion labeled "suds." The pump reversed, and sucked up the wash water. It left about 2 inches of water in the tub. This water had the dirt in it. Water to make up the volume was added automatically. Other makes were similar, with small variations. If you didn't want to reuse wash water, you didn't stopper the tub.

When it was time in 1978 for a new washer, Ma was no longer interested in a suds saver, even though the Maytag A208 was available with one. We sold the house in 1996, and the washer and dryer went to a new family.

By 1997, and the time for my Maytag Dependable Care, there were no suds savers available new that I know of. Plus, none of the three apartments where I have had it had room for a laundry tub.

I think it's still a good idea, but I don't think it would fly in today's market.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[mayfan69]

Suds Save

Hi Bud

Suds Save was a feature on nearly all Australian top loading automatics up until sometime in the late 1980's or 90's.

Here's my 1977 Wilkins Servis auto using the Suds Save feature.

Cheers
Leon

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[re563]

My mom had suds savers on her washer. Infact, she has a Maytag that she purchased in 1982, that she still has today with a suds saver and still uses it. What Maytagebear wrote above is basically correct. Mom never let wash water go down the drain unless it had been used twice. I do remember, reading a article in the mid to late 80's, (IIRC), and the end of the suds saver system had to do more with the fact that "officals" (who ever they maybe) said that it was very unsanitary to be doing this and that seemed to be the end of saving wash water. Don't know where they got that since plan soap (detergent) and water kills germs. It is of my opinion that the detergent manufactures may have also had a hand in the demise of suds savers so that they could sell more detergent.

I do agree that they should bring back this feature, with everyone trying to go "green" these days, it certainly would make most machines "efficient", not to mention the cost savings on detergent.

 

[polkanut]

Lawrence,

Maytag still had suds-saver models available in 1998 when we bought our current Dependable Care set.  We did however have to special order our washer, and it only took about a week to arrive IIRC.  Like Robert's mom, we use our suds-saver every wash day.  Our water also gets used twice before going down the drain.

 

The explanation above is almost exactly how I've said it in the past. 

 

 

[akronman]

suds saving

I almost always save suds, going from curtains and sheets to shirts and undies, finishing with a third load of pants and socks, a bit more detergent added each use.  My 1-18 and GE FF have fantastic long spray rinses, everything comes out clean and well rinsed. It saves water and energy and detergent, it's easy to do, and everything comes out clean. If I am laundering up after some dog or infant child problem, no, I don't save suds. And whites with super hot watr and bleach, I don't re-use. Otherwise, all the time, which is around 80% of the time.

 

Like Lawrence said, 2 tubs are needed, or one with a standpipe nearby since you'll have 2 hoses. Other than that, just plug the drain with a stopper and hit the buttons for saving suds, then returning suds, it's easy. Believe me, Grandma did 3 or more loads of clothes in her wringer in the same water, a 1/3 addition of soap each time.

 

[mickeyd]

flood the basement if it was left on by accident

On the machines that have a SAVE/ DRAIN button, here's what happens.

 

When you select save, the suds water comes out the long goose neck hose, and the rinse water comes out the standard drain hose.

 

When you select drain, all exiting water comes out the regular drain hose. So if you only have one sink, no standpipe and don't use the suds-saver, and some curious washer boy comes by and flips the switch to save, UH-OH. "Keep that kid away from the washer."

 

Many, many machines do not have such a switch, especially the early Kemore - Whirlpools where the suds-returns were a standard feature. The suds-return is on the main dial just before the wash, all proceeding automatically. Another cool thing about those machines was the very long L-shaped rinse hose that stretched across the first laundry tub where the suds water was store over to the second tub to drain the rinse water.

 

I used to love hearing the valve switch over after the suds were spun and just before the spray rinse began, keeping the spray rinse water out of the suds sink or tub. Magic to a little washer boy.

[this post was last edited: 11/18/2011-11:50]

 

[yogitunes]

This can still be done without a sudsaver washer.......

but you will need space, and another machine or two.......and this also would be a manual system, where you would have to be there to monitor the set-up

one way would be to have a wringer, as a holder for the wash water, when ready use its pump to replenish back to the automatic......like I said, you would have to stay with the machines and move hoses around, from wringer to sink....

I have had 3 or more machines in-line, having each one drain the suds water into the next.....and the continue thru the cycle allowing the rinse to go down the drain..........

this re-use has come in handy to save water from lightly soiled clothes, to wash grimy work clothes, shop/cleaning rags, or dog bedding.....a great way to save money used to heat that hot water, and not using the full dose of detergent for the next load.....

heck, if possible, re-route your drain line to let the rinse water, water the lawn or flower bed........what better way to conserve and get multi uses of the water..........I have the greenest, thickest, most plush lawn on one side of my house, night and day difference...from the washers water!

during water restriction periods, many people re-use their shower water to water outside plants...........given restrictions like this, people will do what they have to, to get around limitations...........

look at the gas prices recently......a lot of people are conserving where they can, or buy newer efficient vehicles that use less gas............give the country a permanent restriction, or high water cost.....guarantee you will see them do things almost unbelievable, manufacturers will bring back the suds saver feature, or something that will adapt to your machine, or people will design their own, even if it means creating one out of a large 30 gallon trash barrel, and hand bailing that water back into the machine.....

 

[yogitunes]

even this contraption can turn your machine into a sudsaver......people are always thinking.....!

 

[macboy91si]

Interesting...

But certainly not for the masses. Large metal frame strapped to the top of a beautiful machine, no thanks. What I do agree with though is the principal of saving the water definitely, it's one of the things I love about twin-tubs. Actually if people are willing for operation that manual, a twin-tub or wringer is right up their alley. I recently acquired a Maytag with a suds-saver, but just discovered that the suds-valve doesn't seal all the way so water goes out the drain hose and the suds hose at the same time instead of one OR the other. Luckily the part is still available. Personally I can't wait to try it out.

 

The thing about "green" is people don't want to actually BE green. They want something shiny with a label that SAYS it's "green". It's all about the image. People that usually drive a hybrid and have a $2000 F/L washer and use cold water with sub-standard eco-detergent and ride their high-horse like they're changing the world. There are ways to get reasonable performance out of things and save energy, but that requires work and people can't be bothered with it. So what we get are over-priced, shoddily built items with a green sticker that can't properly perform the task that they were created to do.

 

 

-Tim

 

 

[DirectDriveDave]

When there are the things about what many say about the TL washer's water usage, I usually say this.

Using a TL washer can be like using an incandescent lightbulb. Use it only when you really have to and don't use it when you don't have to.

You can easily be efficient with anything depending on your usage.

I just also want to clear up about something I said in the past about not really being the biggest fan of a sud saver. My concern was not cross-contamination, it was that I was skeptical about how well the next load could be washed. Now this was just a thought, and my skepticism could easily be wrong as I have never used a machine with sud savers before.

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Tunnel washers, Commercial DW's Suds saving on a massiv

Large tunnel washers use a water counterflow process by where laundry flows one way through the machine's compartments (prewash>washes>rinses) water enters at the other end of each section (wash and rinse). Therefore depending on the size and number of washing and rinsing compartments water may be reused 4 or 5 times before going to drain.

Most commercial dishwashers also reuse final rinse water for washing. This is done either by draining wash water and retaining rinse water for the next wash or by an overflow wash tank which is filled at the beginning of a meal service and replenished by the incoming fresh rinse water. Water in tanks is changed between washing periods.

 

[qualin]

I can see how suds saving could be very valuable if you are doing a lot of loads.

My old GE Profile would use 180 Liters of water per cycle, 90 on the wash and another 90 for the rinse. Doing two loads with the same water could save 90 liters right there.

Unfortunately, I don't have a large washtub, but it has crossed my mind to install one so I can soak clothes by hand if need be.

 

[launderess]

From The 1960's Through 1980's

Thereabouts enough housewives either knew of wringer washing machines and or at least saw them in action via older female relatives. Therefore the concept of reusing wash water wasn't that "icky" to many. Add to this the 1960's and 1970's being a time of "environmental concern" and later the energy crisis one could also see how suds saving washers would have a market.

Remember detergents routinely gave dosage ranges for wringer washers right though the early 1980's so someone out there was using them.

Using a suds saving washer is only slightly different than a wringer. In both instances one is reusing wash water and long as one adds more detergent to keep the cleaning power level up, washing should come clean.

However routine washday advice from wringer/wash tub days applied; once the water became grossly filthy it was time to have a fresh tub of clean water/detergent.

Consider also that detergent dosage as given on packets then as now is often in excess of requirements to get the job done, an arguement could be made that wash water often still contains lots of cleaning power at the end of a cycle.

 

[macboy91si]

Automatic, Single Use Wash Water

...is terribly wasteful IMO, having used twin-tubs for over 7 years straight, I can attest that there is plenty of use left in the water beyond the 1st load. I will never understand the cross-contamination or ick factor to this. It's not like you're re-washing in muck using a suds-saver, if you are, you're doing it wrong. For most casual-wear I wouldn't think twice about it, I mean how dirty do you really get at the cubicle at work? I won't reuse the water for some things like pet cleanup or bedding and such but usually in the twin tubs I start out with lightest colors and work my way to dark. As I've mentioned before, I can easily fill a full-size dryer on laundry day with clothes washed in the ~11 gallon twin tub and even then the water is not mucky as much as it is discolored from the dyes. This is why I can't wait to get the A502S in perfect order.

 

-Tim

 

[suds14]

I have alway used the suds saver or as I do now save the water and put it back in the washer with a bucket for years. I follow the same washing process as my grandma and mom. The white clothes are always soaked before washing, also all under wear socks and heavy soiled clothes are soaked before washing. I would hate to my water bill if I didn't.

David

 

[bpetersxx]

sorry pic is not too clear but this is the 806s that you see in Harvest greens

The 606s has all the soap on it at the time

Laundry tub sits to the right of the 806s

I did have to fix the diverter valve on the 806s as it as ejecting the wash and the rinse water thru both hoses and would not suds return

oh the youtube link is for my 308s but I think I do have a video of the 806s wash save

http://https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSz9F-_Ak0&feature=related

 

[golittlesport]

the way people do laundry has changed

Back in the days of conventional washers, laundry was often done all at once, usually taking the better part of the day ("washday"). It was common practice to reuse the wash water immediately after wringing out the clothes while rinsing the first load in a separate tub. The wash water was still sudsy and hot. Many thought that the first automatic washers were wasteful with water...especially hot water. Thus the suds saver feature was a popular option for many.

But using a suds saver on an automatic washer is not exactly the same as doing 2-3 loads of clothes consecutively in a conventional machine where you are adding the next load as soon as the previous load is removed from the water. On an automatic washer, the used wash water sat for at least 30 minutes getting cold before the machine finished its cycle and the next load could be started. And since the person doing the laundry often didn't stand there with the machine like with a conventional washer, the time between loads was often longer still. So the first load was hot water, the second lukewarm and it was stone cold by the third load. But one could adjust to that and wash whites first (without bleach), then colors and finally rugs, rags or jeans.

These days people do laundry at all times of the day and night and everyday of the week. A load here and a load there. Few have the time or patience to babysit a washer and try to reuse the water. (Although most of us here would be the exception.)

 

[spiceman1957]

I'm surprise

that the federal government has not been on washing machine mfgs to have already done this. It truly make sense and think how much water we could be saving. I know the car wash near me reuses water. I often wonder if the large commericals laundry or your neighborhood Laundromats reuses their water.
John