Time for Hot Water Heater Maintenance

[retro-man]

This is probably the most used and most neglected appliance in our homes. It is spring time and a few minutes of your time guys and gals will prevent some "cold" moments. All you need to do is attach a garden hose to the drain connection at the bottom of the tank. Put the hose into a floor drain etc., note do not run this water onto your lawn, it will kill it. May be good if you are trying to get rid of some weeds. Turn the valve on and let it run for about 5 minutes. You will be surprised at what comes out. This is the sediment that builds up over time from our water and needs to be flushed out. Left for years over time this is what rusts out the bottom and starts those darn little leaks that cause the whole unit to be replaced. This will add years to your tank. This should be done on a regular basis, at least 4 times per year. It's a lot more work to replace this appliance than most others and its one you don't like to be without. Happy Flushing.
Jon

 

[rpm]

excellent advice

I just cleaned out the water softener tank today.
It was digusting.
It just looked like mud in the bottom.
10 years of old salt, and the fact it is in an old mud floor cellar probably didn't help.
Again you wouldn't want to do this on your lawn.
I used the power washer on it on the deck and it worked great.
If it kills grass and weeds down below,even better.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Well I never

This might explain why I replace a water tank about every five years or so.

Thanks so much for the advice.

 

[petek]

we "rent" our gas water heater from the gas company. It costs about $12 per month with 24/7 repair/replacement. Sure it costs more than buying in the long run but it's just one less thing to worry about. They'll even rent the furnace/boiler/ac but I'm not sure what that costs.

 

[dirtybuck]

Question:

Is this procedure good for both electric and gas water heaters?

 

[oldhouseman]

What about

...a tankless water heater?

I installed one last year on my house that I am restoring. I read the manual cover to cover and it didn't say anything about maintenance, then again why would they? Any advise on the tankless models?

 

[mattl]

5 years?!!!!

iheartmaytag, 5 years? It might have something to do with your water, but I expect 20+ years out my tank and get it. I'm 10 years into my 2nd TOL Kenmore tank, last one was 22 years old. I flush it and replace the anode rod from time to time, I think replacing the rod is just as important as flushing.

However, I am having issues with it now - maybe some of the great minds here can help. I am having a problem with the gas valve/thermostat. At any setting above lukewarm it cut out the gas - pilot and all. I replaced the thermocouple thinking it was bad but it did not solve the problem. I've posted before I like my water HOT 150-160, now is in the 120s much too cold for me.

I've found my heater is made by State for Sears. Sears has the valve for $127 delivered, State wants more. This is a basic 40 gal 40,000 btu burner with a White Rodgers valve. Is there a generic unit that will work? I've seen some WR valves online for as little as $39.

This has really been a lousy spring around the house. Upstairs toilet leaked ruining the dining room ceiling. In order to pull the toilet I have to remove the counter top in the bath, when I do that i need to drop in a new sink. As mentioned water heater acting up, bad plumbing repair in basement (I didn't do it...) leaked and ruing suspended ceiling from 70's no way to match it, dehumidifier cut out only 3 years old, Maytag, they will sort of stand behind it, it was made by Fetters who is in Bankruptcy, have no idea when they will do warranty work. My bedroom TV is acting up, and my dad tripped on the metal edge of a step going to the back entry and decided to "hammer" it down ( all he needs to do is not shuffle...) bent if all to hell and in the process took a couple of chunks out to the ceramic tile floor below it. That's only the last month, ah well....

 

[sudsmaster]

Flushing out the tank once a year is good.

Also good is to inspect the sacrificial anode rod every five years or so. You may need an extra big socket or box end wrench to remove it. Mine was 1-1/16" diameter. If 2/3 of the sacrificial metal is gone (leaving just a central wire) then it's time to replace the sacrificial anode. Replacement anodes can be gotten from plumbing supply houses for less than $50.

Don't forget to turn off the cold water inlet, and the power (gas or electric) to the water heater before attempting this. You don't want a geyser from water pressure, and you don't want heat coming on while you're doing it either. I usually drain the tank a bit first so that water doesn't flow out the anode hole.

The sacrificial anode is what is really responsible for the tank life. It dissolves in the water instead of the steel of the tank and its fittings. Areas with soft, acidic water will eat anode rods (and tanks) much quicker than areas with a little hardness and water on the alkaline side. Most municipal water companies adjust the hardness and pH to promote longer tank and water pipe life.

 

[retro-man]

Yes this is a good practice for both electric and gas free standing units. As far as the units that are instant with no standby, I believe that these units need no maintenace. No place for the sludge to accumulate. I guess another good feature on those units.
Jon

 

[retro-man]

Mattl: Sorry to hear of all the issues you are dealing with presently, damn they can mount up fast and cost alot of $ in no time. As far as your hot water heater, something is kicking the entire unit off, sort of like a safety relay kicking in that is not supposed to be or is it working correctly and your burner or control have become defective. Hard to tell, but for the price of the new controls I would change out the water heater for a new one. What I have done on mine is to put screw on disconnects with braided hoses from the water supplies to the tank. I can have it taken out and replace within a half hour now. I hate to have to keep soldering. Takes me longer to get everything together to do the job. Keep a stiff upper things will get better soon.
Jon

 

[iheartmaytag]

MattL
Sounds like your life is like mine.

I had one October where the roof leaked. We had had a rainy fall and the roof leaked for the first and only time. $$$ damages.

Then about three days later the bathroom sink sprung a leak and flooded the bath and bedroom. Then the dishwasher died.

I just got caught up with all that sat down and the TV went PSSST. and died.

My water tank in that house ( it was a mobile home) was a sealed combustion unit. Cost about $600-$900 to replace. I replaced four of them in fourteen years.

My new house (I say new it's 74 years old) was all updated, and the tank is new. I will pay closer attention to the maintenance on the tank.

 

[mattl]

I've learned life goes in cycles, I guess I'm just in a down cycle at the moment.

I did manage to get a deal on a new dehumidifier. I got tired of paying $$$ so looked for something cheap as they now appear to be disposable. Circuit City of all places had a rebadged unit, labeled "Sunbeam" on their website for $119. They had a 10% online discount so it came down to $107. They screwed up my last on line order and gave me a $24 coupon last week so, down to $83 and when I went to pick unit up for some reason they gave me another $9.00 back, said it was cheaper in the store or something. So I got the unit for $75 + tax, not too bad. Funny thing, It's the EXACT same unit as the Maytag that died. So at some point the original will get fixed and when this one dies I'll have a spare.

BTW, these "Sunbeam " dehumidifiers are popping up everywhere, usually pretty cheap. They work, but Odds are not for long, they have a history of bad coils, someone posted on another site that it is a well known issue and there are no replacements available at the moment.

 

[petek]

For a dehumidifier the first place to look is all the thrift stores and Habitat for Humanity Restores. I see olden goodies in there all the time and they're still working.

 

[mattl]

Pete, that may be true, but they are energy hogs. I noticed a real difference when we switched from out 20+ year old Kenmore to a newer model. From mid-May to later October the unit runs 90% of the time, and I get the biggest unit that's readily available, 50-60 pint models.

We live in an area with natural springs, so I guess that's why the basement is so moist. It's completely finished, about 1800 sq. ft. and you feel like you went through a time warp to the early 70's when you go down the stairs. My mother never did anything cheap so the paneling is real wood, and the floor is a very high grade of Corlon and the furniture is nice black vinyl Mediterranean style.

 

[panthera]

Matt,

It is true, bad things come in groups, I don't care what anyone says.
My partner's house is over 100 years old. The stuff from the turn of the 19/20th century is pretty solid, not much of a problem.
It's the newer stuff that causes him headaches. Since we met he has had the basement flooded twice (once was my fault), the water heater died and replaced (and good thing I was there that day, the bozo who did it didn't want to put in dielectrics, didn't want to replace the flexible gas line and didn't level it - it would have been literally hanging on the water pipes. Which are plastic except for the mandatory first few feet.
Last time he picked me up at the airport (a four hour drive for him, my family which is 45 minutes away has no time, I can wait six hours for the bus...) the upstairs water closet sprang a leak just before he left...so who knew what we would be returning to...
He just finished repairing the water damage in a ceiling upstairs a few weeks ago...I am almost afraid to touch a faucet in the place at this point, unless it was made before 1920. That stuff will never die.
I wonder if he didn't at some point offend a niad?

 

[oldhouseman]

Easy to maintain

I put a tankless water heater in my place when I started the restoration a couple of years ago. I put a gas tankless heater in, pictured here. I didn't like the location it went by the back door but I at least will hide it with some landscaping this spring (this was taken last Sept. just after I got the stair railing up). My gas bill is LOW compared to keeping the tank going. During the summer months when I don't have to heat the house my bill drops to $15.00 dollars. I can't see ever going back to having a tank to keep up, especially with the expense and maintenance.

 

[iheartmaytag]

I would like to go tankless

Oldhouseman,
Your's is outside, but in my colder climate it would have to be indoors. Can these be installed in a basement? Do they require a powervent?

 

[oldhouseman]

It all depends on the model

you get. The neighborhood my house is in is comprised of houses that are all over 100 years old, mine being the oldest (211 years old). Since I installed mine some of my neighbors have converted. The 1900 house next door has a tankless unit in the basement. The plumber that installed the unit said it was required for mine to be installed outside because of the model I got. He said he could get me an indoor unit but I really didn't have a place for it. The old tank that was taken out was in a closet under the staircase. Code no longer allows that. I also thought about putting individual units at each sink and bath (they are tiny) but opted for one unit for the whole house. I can have the shower on in one bathroom and the tub running in the other bath and not run out of water. This unit cost a little over a thousand dollars but I have more than made up for the cost with the monthly savings. My neighbor is happy with his unit as well. I just can't see having a tank to constantly heat. Eletric units are also available but they have a heavy pull on the service and take a lot of energy to use. The use of gas or electric can vary depending on the area you live and which is more economical for the area. One of the best features I like about the tankless heater is I can set the temp. so I can take a shower or bath and not have to use cold water, then turn the temp up when I want really hot water. I have a touch pad control hidden in the hall they I can adjust easily for water savings as well. I'm not using any gas unless I have the hot water on so in the summer my only gas use is when I actually have the water on. The tank models are cheap to buy and install but the monthy cost make them expensive to operate. GO TANKLESS!!!

 

[iheartmaytag]

I was told that the cost, like you said $1,000 is also made up in the life of the unit; becaus there is no tank to leak.

So if you spend $1,000, and the unit last 4x as long you would have spent that much with a tank plus the extra to operate it.

I plan to go tankless when the tank I have goes. I just have a feeling the prices of the tankless models will come down a bit if more people use them.

 

[oldhouseman]

Just about

everybody I know is converting when they have to replace the waterheater. I know some people that have converted before that time arrives because the cost of energy is going through the roof here. My neighbor got a $540 dollar utility bill last August and was making plans to convert his when it died anyway. I showed him my utility bills (I kept the stubs so I could track this to make sure the investment was paying off) and he about flipped. I figured out it cost me $63 dollars a month just to keep the hot water tank heated. In winter the bill for gas (with heating) hit 300 bucks. Last winter my highest bill for gas, which was for the most part to run the gas logs in tyhe fireplaces, was $78.00! That's heat and hot water combined. I do have to take into consideration I am only home about 4 days a week but still the savings is evident. There is no way I would ever go back to a tank system. My average gas bill runs 15 to 18 dollars a month now in summer. Now I'm starting to monitor how much hot water I actually NEED and use cold only when I can get by with it. Laundry (whites), dishwashing and bath time is the main call for hot. I have to keep an eye on the other half sometimes, he tends to let the tap run on hot and walk away for a few minutes before he turns it off, he knows that drives me crazy.

 

[washerboy]

directions please

Okay..I was thinking the other day I needed to drain my tank..it was new in 98...soooo...I shut the cold water supply to the tank off, shut off the burner, attact a water hose to the spicot on the side and drain the tank in the back yard (not worried about killing the grass). when I'm done draining. close the spicot and turn the cold water back on...is the tank going to refill by itself?..I thought when the tap is open at the sink the cold water going into the tank forced the hot water out to the sink? I know I'd need to lite the burner..but how would I know when the tank it full and time to lite the burner?

 

[retro-man]

Actually I never shut off the incoming cold water. I leave it on and just open the bottom spigot and let it run. I don't bother turning the burner off. It will start after a minute or so but I only leave the water running for about 5 minutes. This seems enough to clean out the sediment. You can light the burner after the tank has filled. Just turn on one of your hot water faucets, this will help purge the air out of it. Once you have water coming out of the faucet you know the tank is full and time to relight. If you do follow the steps that you discribed, the best thing to do is to turn the water back on and still leave the bottom one open to continue draining. This will stir up a lot that has settled to the bottom.
Jon

 

[iheartmaytag]

Unfortunately

Our minimum bill is $45 per month here with no usage what-so-ever.
Our commission allows them to charge us a convenience fee that we have to pay just for maintaining the infastructure.

Electric charges us $15, water $4 you can use nothing at all and still have to pay these charges.

 

[spankomatic]

We too have the tankless water heater. Really like it! Saves energy and space. We never run out of hot water.

Jim

 

[mattl]

Just curious, what is the HOTTEST water you can get out of a tankless unit?

 

[sudsmaster]

Another thought: the frequency at which one should drain the tank and check the anode rod probably has a lot to do with water quality and tank design.

Many modern water heaters have inlet tubes with a bend at the end. These force the incoming water to swirl sediments off the bottom of the tank, helping to send them through the hot outlet so they don't collect in the tank.

Obviously hard water will have more sedimentation than soft water.

And acidic water will eat away the anode rod quicker than neutral to slightly alkaline water.

 

[DADoES]

<blockquote>Just curious, what is the HOTTEST water you can get out of a tankless unit?</blockquote>My electric unit maxes at 140°F. Not because it couldn't potentially get higher, but because the electronics won't let it.

 

[oldhouseman]

Same here

with a gas unit.

 

[spankomatic]

Ours is set at 140. I have not tried any higher...