Toploaders?

[toggleswitch2]

One of the biggest problems with medical/psychological and other "scientific" research is that, often, the testers' personal opinons and the group-think or society's mentality oftten finds its way into "scientific" findings.

Paraphrased-- results often show what the researcher EXPECTS them to show.

Either type of machine give perfectly acceptable results when one understands the applied science behind getting good results, And having an informed/enlightened user works around the machine's inherent design deficiencies and with the machines' postitive attributes.

For example using biological/enzyme-based detergents and overlaoding will generally kill results in a top-loader.

 

[hoover1100]

I guess the main problem with the argument is

Most Europeans have very limited experience of top loading machines, and the front loaders sold in the U.S. just don't compare to those sold elsewhere in the world for a number of reasons from what I have observed:

The main wash times are far too short to work with modern water consumptions, either the wash time needs to be drastically lengthened or the machine needs to fill with considerably more water to rival a european front loader. Another consequence of this is the machines can't be filled as full as a European front loader. Then theres the whole heating of water issue.

U.S. front loaders don't seem to increase the water levels on rinses compared to the wash and don't seem to spin long or fast enough between rinses (the Speed Queen's 5 spin bursts with the pump off as an interm spin being a point in case). This means rinsing must be quite considerably poorer.

Detergents don't seem to quite suit front loaders very well, liquid detergents and chlorine bleach prevailing, not to mention from what I've seem even the HE detergents seem incredibly high sudsing in the main.

Ofcourse in the same way a top loader just wouldn't work here because, in the U.K. at least, our hot water tanks are usually gravity fed, so the pressure is considerably lower than that of the cold, meaing on a mixed fill the water will usually be barely tepid. On top of this, these days there are barely any high sudsing detergents on sale, and most of these work like any other European detergent, designed for longer cycles and controlled temperaures.

I guess the people who can best pass judgement on the cleaning ability of either type of machine are the Aussies, having European style front loaders as well as a wide availability of top loading machines, and the correct hook ups and detergents for both.

Matt

 

[chestermikeuk]

Hhmmmm

Bit of a bold question Chris, no need to be sorry and no argument required...what you want is a discussion about the "merits of using these types of machines"....having used both I can understand the questions / issues on both sides of the water...but as has been said whatever you have and are using you will quickly adapt to how each machine works and get good results, its when you dont undertand and observe the code that inferiour results can ensue!!!

There is a massive drive at the moment by manufacturers and and detergent companies to give the customer better "Education & Training" to do with how machines work and getting the best reults out of them with the right detegent for the job etc..am the first to admit there is a lot more to be done as well!!!

P & G Tech Centre in Newcastle have just about a model of every main type of washing machine from all over the world in their testing labs, they also replicate the same conditions as well, as in humidity rooms and water hardness etc...so they can obtain a likeness in similar conditions, machines are top loaders,as used in US & Middle East..front loaders from UK, EU, Japan, Korea, Asia Pacific, twinnies from Saudi Arabia etc...

BUT what they cant get very easily is replicated customer conditions & results!! I asked the question Well, if you want testers look no further than the guys from AW...I was amazed at the answer...That sounds great in theory but as you all would be "In The Know About Doing Laundry" you would scue the results...I was a little taken aback but thinking about it I could understand..we have the knowledge and ability to "Adapt" to laundry conditions...although I did say, yes but even I didnt notice the new dosage on the latest packs and thought it was the new VZug that was giving me too much foam, when in effect it was me!!!There you go!!! motto "Read Detergent Doses & Get To Know Your Machine"

 

[mtn1584]

Front Loaders don't use enough water

With the exception of Speed Queen, the problem with the majority of front loaders being sold in the U.S. is that they simply DO NOT use enough water to wash and rinse clothes.
However that being said, commercial front loaders being used in laundromats across the country ie. Wascomat, Huebsch, Dexter etc. DO use a sufficient amount of water to wash and rinse in a short amount of time. I think if manufacturers would stop using "gimmicks" like an angled tub, or steam cycles etc. and increased the amount of water these BIG machines use, then there wouldn't be such a problem with them.Until then I will continue to use my top loader made by SQ.If used correctly top loaders give excellent cleaning results, and I've grown up with top loaders my whole life. GE, Whirlpool/Kenmore and now Speed Queen.

 

[launderess]

Don't Blame Manufacturers

But the US government for sticking it's oars in for the sake of energy "savings". Expect things to get worse for all manner of major appliances as the Obama administration prepares to roll out yet more energy rules.

Aside from periods of water restrictions, our local laundromat worker tells me his front loaders are set to where either owner or factory put them in terms of water levels. During drought or water shortage times, the City inspectors can fine laundromat owners if water is above a certain level (front loaders).

Commercial washing machines, especially laundromat machines largely escape the energy "requirments" of their domestic cousins out of a matter of public health. Same reason commercial dishwashers can use, for the most part all the water and energy required to get the job done.

However water and energy are part of the cost for any laundry or business that requires a dishwasher, so in efforts to keep those costs down, manufacturers are always improving or offering ways to save energy.

For instance know that the SQ front loaders in local laundromat can be set for more or less rinses by the owner. There is also a period of "flushing" where the water keeps entering the drum but drain remains open while the machine tumbles. IIRC this feature can be disabled from some rinses or all together.

The uber large SQ front loader at local, for instance has about four deep rinses and the aforementioned tumble rinse. Well it did until got cheap. Then he raises prices but took out the tumble rinse. Smaller front loaders at the same laundromat only have three rinses and no tumble rinse.

 

[rudin1969]

Mike, you've mentioned the new VZug. What is your feedback on it so far?

 

[norfolksouthern]

Wringer washers

My experience with the Whirlpool Duet is that it is an ace at cleaning winter jackets. I have yet to try comforters and pillows, so I won't have a verdict until I get the machine back from having the boot replaced. I had a Maytag wringer for a while, until I sold it. It out performed the Duet in cleaning abilities by a wide margin. You can run a wash for as long as you desire, with as much detergent as needed, and it will not suds lock under any circumstance. And the agitator had a very strong suction. There was no billowing. The best compromise was with the KitchenAid top loader, followed closely by the direct-drive Kenmore. Neither machine had a temperature regulator, and both could stand large amounts of detergent, yet still rinse thoroughly. The KitchenAid had an extra rinse option that was rarely needed. Having used Alice, my Frigidaire 1-18 for two months, I noticed a significant reduction in my water bills and could also get nearly the same results as I did in the Kenmore, with less detergent. What a great, fun machine, and surprisingly efficient!

HE front loaders are very sensitive, and finicky with the types of detergent they use. Tide HE power, in moderate quantities, works best with the Duet. It rinses by spinning at a high RPM to extract all the detergent it can before going into two rinses, both of which use very little water. I have found its performance on my white socks to be marginal compared to the other machines I have, but adequate. I strongly feel that a Speed Queen top or front loader has better capabilities overall, with the front loader offering almost the same efficiency as the Duet.

NorfolkSouthern

 

[toggleswitch2]

One does wonder why the forced conversion in the U.S.A to front-loaders here based on water-use "efficiency" includes such stringent water-use standards.

One would have assumed that the populace needs to transition to front-loders that DO use water first, THEN over 5 to 10 years start cutting the water use.

Too much too fast.

Speaking of government "do as I say not as I do" is still in full force! Mr. B.O raised the temperature in winter of the White House to what some say is near tropical levels. So we all love to dictate to others how to live and what to do, but we ourselves............