Under counter outlets for island

[fan-of-fans]

I have been trying to come up with some ideas to install outlets on my kitchen island. The old island cabinet had two duplex outlets on the side. When the new cabinets were put in, no outlets were installed, as we didn't want to cut into the side panels of the new cabinets. They just ran the wires up from the floor and capped them off inside the cabinets.

I considered installing outlets inside the cabinets, and running cords through the door. This would solve the appearance issue, but it wouldn't meet code. The other idea I considered is Plugmold installed under the edge of the countertop, which is about 10" wide on each side. This would make the outlets invisible, but would meet code and I wouldn't have to cut into anything. But the price of Plugmold was a bit of a shock.

The final idea I had is to install some angled boxes from Home Depot which are about $20 each (I would install two). This would be cheaper and almost as invisible as Plugmold.

The other issue is GFCI protection. Currently the kitchen has none. I believe that all of the countertop and island outlets are on a single 20 amp breaker. The most straightforward solution is to install a GFCI breaker, but the panel box is from 1976 so it may be impossible to get new breakers. The second solution of course is to install a GFCI outlet at the start of the circuit, but who knows which is the first or where the island wiring falls into it. If the island outlets are first on the circuit, the angled boxes might be the route to go, as they accommodate GFCI sized devices.

Honestly, the island outlets were rarely used but were nice at Thanksgiving to plug in the electric knife for turkey or ham cutting. Been using an extension cord to do that. Also useful for the vacuum cleaner as didn't have to use outlets above counters.

 

[yogitunes]

I guess it varies from state to state for code....

but I have outlets built in under the bathroom sink, of course their GFCI, that's just common sense....but this way the electric toothbrush, razor, etc are plugged in underneath, out of site.....

same for the blow dryers, the cord is routed up into the drawer, open drawer, use appliance, place back, and close the drawer....out of sight, out of mind...

even in the kitchen, under the sink are two outlets....one powers the disposal, the other for the dishwasher....and oddly enough, they are not GFCI...

if you installed them inside the cabinet, as long as the wire is metal covered conduit, and they are GFCI surface mounts.....I don't see the issue....

but yeah, for things like electric knife or hand mixer, I wish I had outlets on the front of my base cabinets...the kick plate would be a good location, as you mentioned for the vacuum as well....but not all cords are long enough....

 

[yogitunes]

I guess it varies from state to state for code....

but I have outlets built in under the bathroom sink, of course their GFCI, that's just common sense....but this way the electric toothbrush, razor, etc are plugged in underneath, out of site.....

same for the blow dryers, the cord is routed up into the drawer, open drawer, use appliance, place back, and close the drawer....out of sight, out of mind...

even in the kitchen, under the sink are two outlets....one powers the disposal, the other for the dishwasher....and oddly enough, they are not GFCI...

if you installed them inside the cabinet, as long as the wire is metal covered conduit, and they are GFCI surface mounts.....I don't see the issue....

but yeah, for things like electric knife or hand mixer, I wish I had outlets on the front of my base cabinets...the kick plate would be a good location, as you mentioned for the vacuum as well....but not all cords are long enough....

 

[retro-man]

You should not have problems getting a GFI breaker for your breaker box. They have not changed the insides since the 60's when they were introduced. New ones fit just as well as the old ones.

Jon

 

[Marky_Mark]

The reason that outlets are required in kitchen islands is to discourage the use of extension cords, which can lead to a variety of tripping and scalding accidents.  Coincidentally, you mentioned that you yourself have used an extension cord due to the lack of outlets in the island. 

 

As for the GFCI protection, if you don't install a GFI breaker at the service panel, then it shouldn't be too difficult to determine the route of the circuit to install a GFI on the first outlet in the kitchen, connecting all other outlets downstream.  If you did need to install a GFCI outlet in the island itself, then how about installing the "ugly" white GFCI inside the cabinets and then connecting the exposed island outlets downstream of that.

 

As for the island outlets themselves, if you didn't like the standard exposed outlets, there are a variety of pop-up and pop-out outlets available.  I have also seen them located behind a small hinged "drawer" to disguise them.  I also saw something on This Old House where a designer didn't want to install outlets in the island due to aesthetics, but was required to do so in order that the island meet code.  So she found this neat little magnetic flap that installs flush on the side of the island, completely concealing the outlets installed behind it. 

 

 

[cornutt]

What brand is the panel?

 

[fan-of-fans]

Square D panel. I just kind of assumed that new breakers wouldn't fit, as I heard someone talking about how they had a power surge that messed up their breakers and had to get a whole new panel because new ones didn't fit. But maybe they had some panel whose manufacturer was no longer in business.

Good ideas in this thread, thanks. I will check again to see if outlets in cabinets are allowed. If not may go the angled box route. The exposed outlets don't bother me as much as cutting holes in those solid wood panels.

 

[sudsmaster]

Square D shouldn't be a problem.

This house here has a Federal Pacific breaker panel and breakers. They went out of business years ago because of a spate of faulty breakers that could arc and start fires. I had an inspector check out this panel and he said it looked like it had "good" breakers. No signs of arcing. But if I ever need to run new circuits, I'll have to replace the panel, probably with a Square D.

It's not too hard to tell which outlets are mother and daughter. The first outlet in the circuit will have an extra lead going to the next outlet. The last outlet won't have one. This does require shutting off the breaker and pulling the outlets out of their boxes, but once done it's easy enough to replace the first outlet with a GFCI one. I did this in my kitchen and master bed/bath, as well as the guest bath, and a few outlets in exposed places outside.

 

[iej]

Can you go wirh pop up outlets? Or a marble top section that lifts ?

My major concern about side outlets or anything that brings cables down beyond the edge of a counter top is toddlers and kids pulling them.

All it takes is an appliance with hot liquid - a kettle, a coffee pot or any kind of hot device and you have a serious scalding accident.

I know the wiring regulations here and fittings are different but I just went with socket outlets like this:



Since 1980, wiring regs here require RCD / GFCI protection on every outlet circuit anyway so that is a non issue. We just do it with either a combined RCBO (circuit breaker and gfci in a single module) or one RCD (GFCI) covers a whole row of breakers. (The older way).

The hob (cook top), oven and extractor hood also get GFCI protection here these days too. I’ve never found it any issue and it’s a bit reassuring to know it’s that bit safer, even if it might seem overkill.

 

[tomturbomatic]

John (Combo52) did something brilliant with his Corian counter on a very long peninsula that doubles as prep area and buffet. He installed a strip of outlets UNDER the front edge on the working side so outlets are facing down (good in case of spills), but are easily seen for lining up prongs and outlets by bending slightly and plugs are not sticking out (in the case of older plugs where the cord is in line with the prongs instead of perpendicular to them like in newer plugs) to catch on clothing. The cords do not snake across the counter to outlets anywhere and having them almost invisible from the guests makes for a nice presentation at serving time.

You could run the lines up the ends of the inland to feed two circuits and connect them into the strips.

 

[cornutt]

Panels

Unless that Square D panel is really old, there are basically two model series, Q0 and Homeline. Both are still made and your favorite big-box hardware store carries breakers for them. Replacing them is not that hard (but SHUT OFF THE MAIN first!) I have a Q0 and I put in a 20A GFCI breaker for a whirlpool tub circuit. Piece of cake.

Federal Pacific: If that's a Stab-Lok panel, you need to get rid of it pronto. These are known fire hazards. The double pole breakers, including the main breakers, have a known design problem that can cause them to jam if a short circuit occurs; not only will the breaker not trip, but you won't be able to shut it off manually either. You could have a jammed one and not know it until you need to shut it off. Some fire insurance policies will not pay if they find out that the house had a Stab-Lok panel. Underwriters' Labs revoked their listing on these panels after they found out that Federal Pacific had rigged their tests to make it look like the breakers worked when they actually didn't.

 

[gusherb]

My grandmas house had a Square D panel from the early 70s if not the late 60s. They were the QO breakers still made today. You should have zero issue getting breakers for your panel from 1976.

 

[circlew]

SquareD introduced the QO breakers in 1955, but has made circuit breakers since the 30's. The HomeLine series began a number of years later.

The QO line is considered a premium product, as is Eatons CH line of breakers and panels.

 

[gusherb]

Square D introduced QO breakers in 1955

Wow, that's a bit older than I was expecting. Their design has really withstood the test of time if they've been around that long. They've been redesigned some over the years though, how much, I cant say for sure. My grandma's QO breakers from the late 60s early 70s didn't have the little red trip indicator that ones I've seen from at least as far back as 1980 did, though.

 

Reading around on electrical forums in the past, several have complained about QO breakers having issues with burned up busbars due to a loose connection with the breaker. I've never experienced that. 

 

[fan-of-fans]

Mine I believe is QO Series. The breakers on mine do have the little window that shows red when they're tripped. I didn't realize the QO line was that old although I knew breakers dated back awhile. Most homes here in the 1950s still had fuses though.

Good to know I can get new breakers, and even GFCI breakers for it.

 

[sudsmaster]

I've done my homework on Federal Pacific and what I learned it that they had a production problem along the way, and that products produced before a certain date were OK. Apparently the later stuff was crap. The stuff here is early FP, and they do trip as they should in the event of an overload (I do that occasionally in the kitchen with too may heat producing gadgets at once, like microwave + coffee maker + toaster oven all on one circuit.

When I replaced the electric smooth top on the kitchen counter, I tapped off one of the 220 volt legs, and ran it to a Square D breaker box under the counter. That way I could install a 15 amp breaker and run that to an outlet under there for the electric ignition for the gas cook top. It's a two breaker box; I may run another leg to an outlet outside the counter to power things like ... coffee makers and stand mixers. Probably using hard conduit or armored cable.

 

[fan-of-fans]

Hmm, I don't recall seeing Federal Pacific panels here. Most I've seen were Square D or GE though I haven't paid much attention. I know the old house that was next door had a Crouse Hinds breaker panel that I doubt was original (it was demolished last year). Another neighbor's house built in 1997 has a Challenger panel. I thought both were rather unusual brands to see.

As far as too many appliances on 1 circuit I know I've used at least the waffle iron, a warmer, coffee maker and had the hood lights on at the same time and didn't trip the 20A breaker and supposedly they are all on the same one, the ceiling lights are separate and the outlet behind the fridge as well as the freezer outlet in the pantry are on another 20A circuit.

 

[gusherb]

Waffle iron, a warmer, coffee maker, and hood lights

I think a 15 amp circuit could handle that load with little to nothing to spare. Coffee makers typically draw 7 amps, I'd be surprised if the waffle iron drew more than 5, the warmer is probably a couple hundred watts if that, and hood lights are maybe another 100 watts give or take.

Our kitchen is only wired with 3, 20 amp circuits plus a later added 50 amp 240v circuit for an electric range. One circuit has all the can lights plus a microwave that draws 15 amps (as confirmed by the Kill-A-Watt meter). Nothing else load intensive can ever be used on that circuit because of that (it used to trip regularly before appliances got moved around). Another circuit has the pendants and chandelier over the table on it, as well as dishwasher, and garbage disposal. Typically just a toaster is plugged in on that circuit, the coffee maker used to be plugged in there as well. The third circuit serves one counter outlet and the fridge, the fridge draws a few amps at best, which leaves plenty in reserve for the commercial Bunn that draws 11 amps and a hot water machine.
There is an outlet in the island and it's tied in with a circuit that serves half the dining room, an outlet in the living room, and one outlet above in the master bedroom. It's a very hodgepodge circuit but almost never gets overloaded due to what it serves.

 

[circlew]

In addition to FPE, Challenger (aka Zinsco, GTE/Sylvania) panels are of poor quality. These were considered "budget" brands of equipment.