Westinghouse Stereo/Hi Fi...

[lordkenmore]

>,just remembered that Grado is now hi-end

To a degree, I think they always were a high end company, at least in the sense of being a serious audio equipment maker. Admittedly, they might have had a cheaper entry point in, say, 1975 than they do now. But at the same time, 1975 was also a much different era than now. One obvious difference: there were more people playing records then. I also get the sense that era was one during which more "normal" people had component systems. So there was some incentive for cartridge companies to make strong entry point models. They'd have sold, plus there would be the hope that someone who buys today's rock bottom Grado or Shure will come back and buy a better model one day.

>So if you were going to look for a mag cartridge to use in a vintage changer--some homework will be required.

I think homework would be required. I'm not up on all the ins-and-outs of changers. But it's pretty clear that there is a huge variation across the years, the makers, and the models.

But...that is the reality of turntables in general, I guess.

 

[lordkenmore]

>Grado cartridges aren't shielded. That's why they pick up hum from turntable motors, sometimes.

Yes.

>In the world of Dual turntables, some Grado cartridges will hum and others will not. I have even heard that if you have two of the same Dual models one will hum with a Grado cartridge and the other will not.

I've heard this about other makes. I remember hearing about one Rega model that was variable. Even though it was the same turntable, and the same motor design, some would hum, and others wouldn't.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

The Pickering V15 / NP/AC or the Stanton 500 series with a spherical stylus was always a good choice for a magnetic upgrade, but now Stanton has changed hands suppy is drying up.

An elliptical stylus is a poor choice for an upgrade on an old record changer as these require very low tracking forces and demand very low tracking error.

Ken D.

 

[artcurus]

@tolivac,

They also don't like Jack Daniels Or Jim Beam ;-)

Technics SL1200 in nighclubs have a hard life.

My Glaser Steers is currently using a Stanton DJ cart, it works, but I don't use that changer that much.

 

[lordkenmore]

Yes, now that I think of it, an elliptical stylus is probably not the best choice for a changer used as a changer.

 

[artcurus]

@kenwashesmonday,

LOL, well we won't talk about the fun we had at an Antique mall when we tested out the various victrolas with Little Richard Tutti Frutti. That got some attention in the busy mall. (The record was an Ebay sale that went sour, it has a steadily worsening crack in it.)

 

[whirlcool]

Not to plug Dual changers.. but... Dual record changers actually change the VTA (vertical tracking angle) of the stylus as records are added from the stack to maintain best tracking while playing. And the spindle doesn't drop the records down, they are lowered down via an elevator type spindle and finally, the spindle rotates with the record(not stationary) to prevent record hole wear. Dual designed their turntables to be gentle on records. Even the 1000 series Dual's from the mid 60's even will handle cartridges that track as low as 1-3/4 gr.

And on Dual turntables you shouldn't try to use MC (moving coil)cartridges. MC cartridges actually like a little mass to the tonearm. Dual tonearms are built using a low mass philosophy. Usually this will result in a MC cartridge sounding "tinny" on a Dual.

Another Technics turntable that is pretty nice is the SL-1500, a predecessor to the SL-1200.These were hot in the 70's & 80's and can be had for almost a song now.

I think the early 70's was when America really got into component stereo for home use. Retailers like Playback and Pacific Stereo really had quite the selection. There also used to be independent stereo stores that you could go to an "audition" any piece of equipment you wanted to.

I bought a girlfriend a Pioneer SX-424 receiver, a pair of AR-4x speakers and a Dual 1245 turntable with a Shure V-15 cartridge all for about $325.00. And even though it was low powered it sounded great!

 

[artcurus]

I have three different carts I run on my Technics SL1200, The Signet from 1988, an Empire with the pink headshell, (can't remember which it is, I think it's from about the early 90's) and a Shure V15 III.

Sound quality wise, the Shure is the best and it has an original, correct needle in it. The Signet is next and finally the Empire. The Empire is the "hottest" cart.

The Signet did okay with the Shure test record.

 

[lordkenmore]

>There also used to be independent stereo stores that you could go to an "audition" any piece of equipment you wanted to.

Strictly speaking, there still are such dealers. My area has a good number. The problem, though, is that such stores these days often cater to limited audience of serious audiophile types, who are able and willing to make a substantial investment in equipment. This issue frankly really concerns me. People with lower budgets should have a place where they can get the best quality possible for their dollar. Also, practically, the long term survival of the decent audio equipment industry might be helped by those low end sales. The individual sale might net practically no real profit, but it can help create enthusiasm that will translate into buying better equipment one day.

 

[lordkenmore]

Back to the "limitations" of consoles...

I was thinking about an experience I had about 25 years ago. At that time, I was using a mass market rack system of the 1980s. [Insert shudder.] I don't recall the specific market position. It was probably not TOL, but it was also not BOL. There were big three way speakers, graphic equalizer, CD changer, remote control, etc.

At that time, I also had a tubed monophonic console. No idea what the market position on that was, although I'd guess it was also neither BOL, nor TOL. For me, the console was basically a cool toy. But one fine day, I decided what the heck, why don't I try running the rack system turntable through the console to hear what it would sound like playing a record? (The console came to me with a broken changer.) So I took that rack system turntable, and connected it. I don't remember how I connected it--I must have done something to match the moving magnet cartridge on the Plastic Deck to the phono input on the console. All I really remember was that I had the rack system turntable connected, and I dropped a record on. And guess what? The console sounded better than the rack system. I don't recall the specifics, just the "better." Or as my local audio dealer phrased it, "more enjoyable to listen to." Even though the console was mono, probably low powered (certainly lower power than the rack system), probably a lesser output transformer, 30 years older, and presumably with components that probably weren't ideally functioning (e.g. it probably could have used new power supply capacitors, possibly some new tubes here and there, etc).

Not long after, the rack system was sold off. Not entirely because of the console experience, although that was probably one factor.

I now have to wonder what would have happened if I'd tried out a turntable better than what the rack system had... Indeed, I wonder why I didn't do that--it could have bridged the gap between the sale of the rack system, and the day I got the next system.

 

[twintubdexter]

Over the years I've developed a fondness for stereo consoles. They're sort of like swimming pools...you don't necessarily need to use one to simply enjoy it.

 

As fas as Westinghouse, one day I'll get this "mock clock" stereo/phono out of my garage and clean it up.

 

[artcurus]

@twintubdexter,

Thread Is Worthless Without More Pix!

 

[whirlcool]

Oh, those 80's rack systems

I had forgotten about those things. They were mainly just for looks. The performance of most of those was very lacking. Sure they looked like a nice system, but those nice looking components were really cheap. And a lot of brand name manufacturers like Sony, Kenwood and Pioneer all made them. It's my personal opinion that they were designed for people who didn't know anything at all about stereo but wanted something to impress their friends with.

That's something that you can still go to a stereo specialty shop and audition your components before you buy. In Houston just about the only place you could do that at is Best Buy. All the other stereo shops have shut down and are long gone. What you have now are home theater stores specializing in that genre of sound.

And if you think you may have a problem finding a stereo shop, try finding a place that will service your stereo equipment! They all will tell you "Just throw it away and buy a new one." I have an SAE preamp and amp. I had some work done on the SAE preamp and I had to mail it to a specialist in South Dakota. Nobody else around here knew how to work on them, even though I have the SAE Service Manuals.

 

[twintubdexter]

 I've posted photos of that thing before. I guess it was some time ago...tempus fugit.

[this post was last edited: 3/1/2015-21:38]

 

[petek]

Where the failure lies today is speakers. Decent room filling speakers, none of the kids today have them. They play their music from an Iphone docked into some two bit little contraption with  1" plastic speakers.   

 

[artcurus]

@twintub,

Thanks! Surprised at the Garrard tt. Looks to be about a mid 60's model. In fact, that's a model that a magnetic cart can be installed.

How does it sound?

 

[twintubdexter]

It sounds sort of like a mid-line console stereo standing on it's side. Made by Westinghouse Canada. I purchased it from an old lady who was living in a travel trailer that was up on cinder blocks. The place was packed with stuff like you see on "Hoarders" so I'm sure she welcomed the extra space. Fortunately it was near the door. The experience made me appreciate my modest home. 

 

[lordkenmore]

Rack systems

I had direct experience with only my rack system, so I can't comment about all rack systems. But I can say the one I had was piece of junk in just about every way imaginable.

It looked sort of impressive when new "in a lots of high tech looking controls, flashing lights" way. But it didn't take long for me to realize that it was image over substance. Almost from the start, there were reliability issues. Some were minor that I could fix (a belt that drove the tape deck counter acted up somehow). But amplifier took one trip in for service to fix a solder joint.

And while the sound quality was probably a step above what I'd had previously (one of those cheap compact systems with turntable/tape deck/receiver in one box, and external speakers), the rack system really didn't have very good sound quality in an absolute sense. Serious listening was difficult, and not something I did much of. One time I tried seriously listening a long time, and ended up having a headache. Although that headache might have been coincidental. And, towards the end, I played one track off a record, and noted in the liner notes that it was supposed to be a boys' choir. But I thought it sounded more like a women's choir. Perhaps, though, I was just overly cynical about the rack system by that point...

I'd have to agree that rack systems had an appeal for those who didn't know audio. Impressing others with flashing lights, etc might or might not have been a point. But one thing I recall was the ease of buying the things. One complete system, and available for sale in countless places.

 

[lordkenmore]

Service/repair

>And if you think you may have a problem finding a stereo shop, try finding a place that will service your stereo equipment! They all will tell you "Just throw it away and buy a new one."

And that is indeed a real problem. There are stores, fortunately, that do have a repair department. But many stores don't, or have serious limits on what they can/will do.

Manufacturer support can also be appallingly lousy once equipment is past a certain age. Even on equipment that cost more than GNP of a developing nation. Even schematics can be hard to come by (presumably due to trade secrets).

 

[lordkenmore]

Back to the scheduled program

That "mock clock" is an interesting console!