lordkenmore
Well-known member
Back to the scheduled program
That "mock clock" is an interesting console!
That "mock clock" is an interesting console!
Westinghouse Stereo/Hi Fi...
- Thread starter norgeway
- Start date
Help Support :
norgeway
Well-known member
I think..
The mock clock is pretty fine!..I would love to find a regular console with those works as they look fairly high end.
The mock clock is pretty fine!..I would love to find a regular console with those works as they look fairly high end.
arbilab
Well-known member
If it were still commercially viable to get electronics repaired, I would still have had a job since 2001 when the W Bush 'leave no American employed act' went into effect. Almost nobody publishes service data or sells direct-replacement parts. Even the majors (Sony/Panasonic/Mitsubishi/JVC) were phasing it out in the mid 90s, and the latter day rent-a-names (RCA/GE/Zenith/Westinghouse) never had any to start with.
Commercial video place I worked had an extensive library, we were warranty service for the majors. I was the official University of Texas Football Video Engineer. We even had regional service consultants. Who weren't worth much technically, but they had to approve certain component replacements. Of course, that place went out of business shortly after I left in 1995.
Then, in 1981, I was the official State of Hawaii Stadium Scoreboard Repairman. I've still got the letter of commendation. That plus a quarter will get you a free coffee refill at Denny's. You can't get parts for a 1980 Stewart-Warner digital scoreboard either. But if you could, do you know anybody else who knew how?
See how special you are?
Commercial video place I worked had an extensive library, we were warranty service for the majors. I was the official University of Texas Football Video Engineer. We even had regional service consultants. Who weren't worth much technically, but they had to approve certain component replacements. Of course, that place went out of business shortly after I left in 1995.
Then, in 1981, I was the official State of Hawaii Stadium Scoreboard Repairman. I've still got the letter of commendation. That plus a quarter will get you a free coffee refill at Denny's. You can't get parts for a 1980 Stewart-Warner digital scoreboard either. But if you could, do you know anybody else who knew how?
See how special you are?
1931 Westinghouse Columnaire
Interesting history and two ads for this high tech wonder from 1931. Annoying pop up ads for other things.
I like the Westinghouse/Garrard grandfather clock, General Electric had one or two in the late '60's as well.
http://shelbydodgimpradios.angelfire.com/columaire.html
Interesting history and two ads for this high tech wonder from 1931. Annoying pop up ads for other things.
I like the Westinghouse/Garrard grandfather clock, General Electric had one or two in the late '60's as well.
http://shelbydodgimpradios.angelfire.com/columaire.html
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>If it were still commercially viable to get electronics repaired
As I think of it, it's amazing how totally the repair/service landscape has changed. Through the 70s, my parents would have things repaired--I believe the Garrard changer I talked about earlier made at least one trip in for service, and I know for certain our TV went in for service in my memory. Indeed, our last repair shop was about a mile from our house. Ca. 1980, the TV went in one last time, and the repair person said it would cost more to fix than replace. Not long after, that shop was gone.
Part of me intensely dislikes the waste of replacing only because the old item has broken. Although I can see that as for mass market electronics, it's just not cost effective to fix anything.
As I think of it, it's amazing how totally the repair/service landscape has changed. Through the 70s, my parents would have things repaired--I believe the Garrard changer I talked about earlier made at least one trip in for service, and I know for certain our TV went in for service in my memory. Indeed, our last repair shop was about a mile from our house. Ca. 1980, the TV went in one last time, and the repair person said it would cost more to fix than replace. Not long after, that shop was gone.
Part of me intensely dislikes the waste of replacing only because the old item has broken. Although I can see that as for mass market electronics, it's just not cost effective to fix anything.
ovrphil
Well-known member
Long ago, I made peace with enjoying whatever one likes with one's own ears (since there are some incredibly keen ears who can't even tolerate the sound of a CD).
I posted a few Westinghouse stereo consoles on Shoppers Square. The better Westinghouse consoles are not so commonly found on CL searches, but then there are days when the skies open.
I posted a few Westinghouse stereo consoles on Shoppers Square. The better Westinghouse consoles are not so commonly found on CL searches, but then there are days when the skies open.
twintubdexter
Well-known member
John, regarding your comment on rack systems...
They certainly contributed to the death of consoles. Rack systems sold like hotcakes, but at a department store with it's liberal exchange policy they were a nightmare. Individual pieces were constantly being exchanged including the racks themselves. You ended up with a warehouse full of "defective" odds and ends as well as open leftover stock that was used for exchanges. Add to this Fisher, at that time owned by Sanyo. The Fisher name was still popular and they had flashy systems with tons of lights and even a few with a Fisher television incorporated into the rack. The problem was that unlike the other manufacturers, Fisher used strange connectors. A Fisher turntable or cassette deck would only plug into a Fisher amplifier. At warehouse or clearance sales Fisher/Sanyo stuff just sat there until you marked it down to practically nothing. There's a point where it becomes more "profitable" to donate the merchandise to a charity.
oh the headaches! pass the Excedrin
[this post was last edited: 3/2/2015-18:04]
They certainly contributed to the death of consoles. Rack systems sold like hotcakes, but at a department store with it's liberal exchange policy they were a nightmare. Individual pieces were constantly being exchanged including the racks themselves. You ended up with a warehouse full of "defective" odds and ends as well as open leftover stock that was used for exchanges. Add to this Fisher, at that time owned by Sanyo. The Fisher name was still popular and they had flashy systems with tons of lights and even a few with a Fisher television incorporated into the rack. The problem was that unlike the other manufacturers, Fisher used strange connectors. A Fisher turntable or cassette deck would only plug into a Fisher amplifier. At warehouse or clearance sales Fisher/Sanyo stuff just sat there until you marked it down to practically nothing. There's a point where it becomes more "profitable" to donate the merchandise to a charity.
oh the headaches! pass the Excedrin
[this post was last edited: 3/2/2015-18:04]
I have what I'd consider a pretty good ear and a classical music lover first and foremost although I still liked popular, jazz etc. During the 70's I really didn't like to spend a lot of money on albums or sets because it would drive we bonkers after a few plays to start hearing background noise as the LP wore. I don't think I ever bought more than say 5 or 6 classical albums for that reason alone... Thank god when CD's came out and no more snap crackle and pops... I don't believe for a minute that LP's sound better regardless of what same machine they're played on than a CD ,it's bull in my opinion.
The death of good quality stereo consoles also seems to have coincided with the Japanese brands taking over and running the U.S. manufacturers almost completely out of the hi-fi market.
Ken D.
Ken D.
whirlcool
Well-known member
That is so true. The Japanese did overrun and take over the US audio market with products that they could produce more cheaply and still had quality.
It seems that stereo sound was still being developed until around 1986-87 or so. Then a lot of manufacturers started consolidating. Some were bought out by Japanese companies, some just went out of business. After 87' who was left started spending their R&D dollars on "home theater" systems. That's where a lot of audio companies thought the future lay.
Take SAE for example. The company based in LA had some of the best sound engineers in the country working for them. They came out with some terrific sounding products. A lot of their amps were used in recording studios. But as the Japanese closed in they moved their manufacturing to Japan and Korea to lower costs. Then in order to compete they came out with the SAE 2 line of products. These were no where near the quality of the original SAE products. Eventually the SAE 2 products were just one step above what you would find in a rack system. In the end DAK Industries bought them and their inventory out and liquidated it.
And you could find those rack systems being sold everywhere! Even furniture stores that normally wouldn't sell electronics had them. I even saw one rack system that had "disco lights" built into the control panel! Can't remember the brand name though. May have been a "SoundDesign" brand model. And they were built with ease of customer use in mind. I remember helping a girl I knew put one together. The cables were all color coded as to where the wires went. The red wires went between the red jacks, the blue wires between the blue jacks, etc.
I think a lot of people in the early days of quality sound looked at component systems as being either too expensive or "fiddly". People didn't want to fiddle with anything. They just want it to work first time, every time. Then there was the issue of where to put it. Consoles were in their own cabinets, but component stereo required that you supply a place to put it. I remember Allied Radio in Chicago had a showroom for some very nice consoles that did not have any components in them at all. You bought your cabinet and installed your own components.
And today, if a customer can hear ANYTHING at all out of a sound device, they are happy. As noted Iaudio plugged into a plastic cube these days has no where near the quality we used to have with component and console stereo's. Even rack systems sounded better. I think convenience has replaced quality of sound these days.
We have a record collection of over 3,000 records from the mid 60's to around 2000 or so. Believe it or not, there is a resurgence in vinyl. Even though a lot of them are special order, groups are now releasing their latest releases on vinyl again. For me anyway vinyl sounds a lot warmer and natural than CD sound. One of the first albums to be recorded digitally (on vinyl no less) was Fleetwood Mac's Tusk album. Even on vinyl it sounds more like a CD than a record.
And yes, there are a lot of let me say "highly opinionated" people on audio discussion websites. I think a lot of people get something in their mind as the "right way" to do something and then think the whole world should follow them.
But I think that is just the nature of discussion groups in general. You always have a few....
It seems that stereo sound was still being developed until around 1986-87 or so. Then a lot of manufacturers started consolidating. Some were bought out by Japanese companies, some just went out of business. After 87' who was left started spending their R&D dollars on "home theater" systems. That's where a lot of audio companies thought the future lay.
Take SAE for example. The company based in LA had some of the best sound engineers in the country working for them. They came out with some terrific sounding products. A lot of their amps were used in recording studios. But as the Japanese closed in they moved their manufacturing to Japan and Korea to lower costs. Then in order to compete they came out with the SAE 2 line of products. These were no where near the quality of the original SAE products. Eventually the SAE 2 products were just one step above what you would find in a rack system. In the end DAK Industries bought them and their inventory out and liquidated it.
And you could find those rack systems being sold everywhere! Even furniture stores that normally wouldn't sell electronics had them. I even saw one rack system that had "disco lights" built into the control panel! Can't remember the brand name though. May have been a "SoundDesign" brand model. And they were built with ease of customer use in mind. I remember helping a girl I knew put one together. The cables were all color coded as to where the wires went. The red wires went between the red jacks, the blue wires between the blue jacks, etc.
I think a lot of people in the early days of quality sound looked at component systems as being either too expensive or "fiddly". People didn't want to fiddle with anything. They just want it to work first time, every time. Then there was the issue of where to put it. Consoles were in their own cabinets, but component stereo required that you supply a place to put it. I remember Allied Radio in Chicago had a showroom for some very nice consoles that did not have any components in them at all. You bought your cabinet and installed your own components.
And today, if a customer can hear ANYTHING at all out of a sound device, they are happy. As noted Iaudio plugged into a plastic cube these days has no where near the quality we used to have with component and console stereo's. Even rack systems sounded better. I think convenience has replaced quality of sound these days.
We have a record collection of over 3,000 records from the mid 60's to around 2000 or so. Believe it or not, there is a resurgence in vinyl. Even though a lot of them are special order, groups are now releasing their latest releases on vinyl again. For me anyway vinyl sounds a lot warmer and natural than CD sound. One of the first albums to be recorded digitally (on vinyl no less) was Fleetwood Mac's Tusk album. Even on vinyl it sounds more like a CD than a record.
And yes, there are a lot of let me say "highly opinionated" people on audio discussion websites. I think a lot of people get something in their mind as the "right way" to do something and then think the whole world should follow them.
But I think that is just the nature of discussion groups in general. You always have a few....
twintubdexter
Well-known member
so sorry for all these posts...
Ok, I changed my post to "<span style="text-decoration: underline;">contributed to the death of consoles." Electrophonic had console stereos, bars and even a fake stereo/fireplace or two with built-in disco lights. Every one of them sounded just awful. A lot of them fell apart when being delivered since they were constructed entirely out of particle board covered with wood grain contact paper. They weighed a ton and as I recall, smelled pretty bad.</span>
Ok, I changed my post to "<span style="text-decoration: underline;">contributed to the death of consoles." Electrophonic had console stereos, bars and even a fake stereo/fireplace or two with built-in disco lights. Every one of them sounded just awful. A lot of them fell apart when being delivered since they were constructed entirely out of particle board covered with wood grain contact paper. They weighed a ton and as I recall, smelled pretty bad.</span>
whirlcool
Well-known member
It seems like the line of evolution of audio was:
Stereo Consoles
Component Systems
Rack Systems
Home Theater
Ipod & Iphone
Stereo Consoles
Component Systems
Rack Systems
Home Theater
Ipod & Iphone
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Yes, convenience seems to be the major criteria these days for most people. But to an extent, that was the case even years back. Record changers were never the choice of the most hardened audiophiles. Then there was cassette in the 70s. And 8-Track. What has perhaps changed is the in the middle approach, where someone perhaps had a good record changer, and component system. Now it seems like you either have an audiophile system, or else you're using an iPod dock bought at the lowest possible price from K Mart.
Consoles and racks--just right for the person that wants "plug&Play" no fiddling with cables and parts-just plug in-push some buttons and--Music from their CD's,records,tapes,or radio.Some older High end Component systems had BOTH types of TT's--a changer for the Mrs of the home to use while doing housework or for party music.The single play,manual TT was used by Hubbie for the serious listening.And often HE was the only one allowed to touch the TT.The Mrs and the kids used the changer or their own record players.Really,this was the idea of Hi-Fi from the beginning-music at the push of a button!Now-as most point out here-folks now listen to IPods and pocket players connected to earbuds(Hate the things)or those tiny,tinny speakers.But they are happy.After all you can't carry a console,component system,and large speakers in your pocket!
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Yes, there is a resurgence of interest in the LP. I feel sort of vindicated in a way. My father--and possibly others who knew me over the years--thought I was nuts hanging onto vinyl. And now vinyl is back, and CD is apparently moribund.
Interestingly, I was told that the LP version of a new release is often better than the CD. Two factors:
1) CD is locked into the standards of 1982. However, digital recording can now be done to a higher standard, and those masters can be used for the LP version, but have to be converted to the lesser CD standard.
2) CD version may see a lot more processing so it'll play just fine for what the mass market has/uses. E.g. a stock car radio, or a portable player that cost $7 and was made by a company no one has heard of before or since. A less processed version, however, will likely sound a lot better when played on a decent system.
I actually had a chance to hear a comparison of three digital files recently that helped illustrated point #2. Same basic recording, but different points in the recording chain. I can't remember the specific terms/labels, but basically it came down to: almost straight from the microphone, basic edit, and the final edit before mastering the CD. The sound quality loss between the second and third edit was dramatic.
Interestingly, I was told that the LP version of a new release is often better than the CD. Two factors:
1) CD is locked into the standards of 1982. However, digital recording can now be done to a higher standard, and those masters can be used for the LP version, but have to be converted to the lesser CD standard.
2) CD version may see a lot more processing so it'll play just fine for what the mass market has/uses. E.g. a stock car radio, or a portable player that cost $7 and was made by a company no one has heard of before or since. A less processed version, however, will likely sound a lot better when played on a decent system.
I actually had a chance to hear a comparison of three digital files recently that helped illustrated point #2. Same basic recording, but different points in the recording chain. I can't remember the specific terms/labels, but basically it came down to: almost straight from the microphone, basic edit, and the final edit before mastering the CD. The sound quality loss between the second and third edit was dramatic.
Remember the "Direct to Disc" recording LP's have some of these-indeed impressive sound quality.In the beginning CD's were for folks that didn't want to buy or mess with a good TT.And yes,some "pop" music records were recorded to sound best for AM airply over cheap table and clock radios.Some CD's and records were so badly recorded-if you sat by the AM transmitter that they are played thru-made some very STRANGE noises!Modulatiuon transformers and reactors often act like speakers!All musical recording medias can some good or bad depending on how the recordist and music producer uses them.Even the lowly cassette can perform well if the recordist knows and can work with the limitations.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>The single play,manual TT was used by Hubbie for the serious listening.And often HE was the only one allowed to touch the TT.
You still hear about this sort of attitude from time to time. Usually it's in the form of 2 systems. One is a serious audiophile system, hidden away in the den. The second system (possibly a home theater system) is in the living room. One selling point for those with real world finances: if one plays LPs a lot for casual listening, it's probably better to use a cartridge with cheap stylus replacement costs. Plus if the living room turntable is cheap, and gets destroyed during a cocktail party, it's a lot less painful to replace a $300 Pro-Ject than, say, a $2,000 Rega.
And you still hear about men who take the "you touch the good system YOU DIE!" approach.
You still hear about this sort of attitude from time to time. Usually it's in the form of 2 systems. One is a serious audiophile system, hidden away in the den. The second system (possibly a home theater system) is in the living room. One selling point for those with real world finances: if one plays LPs a lot for casual listening, it's probably better to use a cartridge with cheap stylus replacement costs. Plus if the living room turntable is cheap, and gets destroyed during a cocktail party, it's a lot less painful to replace a $300 Pro-Ject than, say, a $2,000 Rega.
And you still hear about men who take the "you touch the good system YOU DIE!" approach.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
>After all you can't carry a console,component system,and large speakers in your pocket!
Maybe you could if you had custom tailored pants with really big pockets. LOL
Maybe you could if you had custom tailored pants with really big pockets. LOL
Instead of the trousers--how 'bout a TRUCK?
My DAD was like that approach--You can't use the Hi-Fi...WELL---We used it when he wasn't home---and NO harm came to it!We would play our favorite records over it with no problems and could hear what they really sound like.Even connected my brothers 8 track player deck into it for an evening.Funny,funky listening-a loud "THUMP" was heard thru the speakers each time the track changed!Again,no harm done.
My DAD was like that approach--You can't use the Hi-Fi...WELL---We used it when he wasn't home---and NO harm came to it!We would play our favorite records over it with no problems and could hear what they really sound like.Even connected my brothers 8 track player deck into it for an evening.Funny,funky listening-a loud "THUMP" was heard thru the speakers each time the track changed!Again,no harm done.
arbilab
Well-known member
I used the house system when I was 12. Couldn't very well keep me out of it when I BUILT it. Built my own a couple years later but it was mono-- till a couple years later. The mono system was EICO HF12 and Glaser-Steers 77 with a GE VR2 (radio station) cartridge. I even shaved down the upper idler so it ran the right speed. And retrofitted the aluminum (lightweight) trip arm, not that it helped much, there was still a CLUNK while in the trip zone.
